Which RIA Are You Dying to Use?

[brad jones]

Ah but WPF is going to change all that, isn't it?

Ah, you mean it will bring the gory-ness of Windows app layout to the web, or do you mean that it will bring web flexiblity to Windows?

If you mean the later, then it (windows apps not needing designers) is really about standards rather than a 'layout' technology.

[visualAd]

I can speak here from both sides of the fence and sit in the middle like some kind of quantum superposition as I no longer officially work as a developer. Generalising, desktop and web development share many attributes and exist to fulfil pretty much the same purpose'; to design a tool / library or application that solves a problem.

Concepts and methodologies of desktop programming can and have been ported to web programming and vice versa. It is my opinion that the increased prominence of the web will push these two fields close together and blur the distinction between the two until they mean one and the same thing.


Web programming has come on leaps and bounds since I first started in 2002. Back then a typical web based application consisted of a few static HTML pages, a bit of HTML produced on the fly by a Perl or CGI application and some hideous examples of DHTML. The design side of web development seemed to be focused wholly on competing to see how many tables you could fit onto a single page, a legacy that unfortunately exists to this day.

There is now a clear distinction between design and programming in web development. Unlike the desktop environment, the front end of a web application exists in an unpredictable and hostile environment - the users web browser. Web browsers come in many different shapes and flavours, they also sit on many different types of machines devices and operating systems, they have their own features, caveats, bugs and security flaws. Add into the mix Javascript, which makes AJAX applications possible and again differs across browsers, devices and OSes. Designing a functional UI in this environment is like trying to build a desktop app that looks, functions and feels identical on every version of Windows, Linux and MacOs that ever existed. So it is no surprise that their are experts in the field of web design and in the field of web development and experts who specialise in both areas.

Things are getting better though; ASP.NET makes the design of the Web Based UI somewhat easier but has a long way to go. There are now toolkits that are marrying Javascript with the back end by treating it as a compiled form of the back end programming language and browser / device vendors are coming around to the idea that following the standards set out by W3C is the only way to promote better the development of rich content web applications.

IMO, a web developer needs to have knowledge and command of both the languages that drive the back end and the languages that produce the front end as well as an understanding of the protocols that transport the content to the users browser. Coming initially from a desktop development background, I found that web development forced me into a different mindset. The application had to be seen at minimum in terms of its functionality and the UI, with the UI simply being the strings the control the functionality puppet. I was then able to transfer this ideology to the desktop programming language and reap the benefits. Conversely, I was also able to take across to web development many of the best practices surrounding OOP and desktop application design to benefit the web applications that I developed.

I think that referring to those who have or do do both web development and desktop development as deluded demonstrates a lack of understanding and a lack of communication between two communities of very talented individuals who like it or loath it will have to start working together in the future.

[DeanMc]

Here's my view on the whole situation,

I currently feel that we are not utilizing the web fully. Currently most web applications are ran via a web browser. I think this is counter intuitive as as an application the web browser was designed for displaying documents. I feel that this would be akin to run web applications through adobe reader.

Somewhere along the line we learned how to make simple applications that make our browsing experience more pleasant while viewing through a browser. But I think the fact that most technologies targeting the web are browser dependent.

I am currently working on a new style application that will work much like the NXE dashboard on the XBOX360. The NXE dashboard while quirky in its own right, it does show the different ways in which the web is utilized to display information.

To your original question brad, I think I am most looking forward to taking a look at web services and thick applications via WPF that is not browser limited. Check my blog post below for more information on my new application.

As an interesting side note: How many web developers think the browser is your most limiting factor?

[brad jones]

How many web developers think the browser is your most limiting factor?

Is it the browser or is it the standards used by the browser that are limiting?

The point of standards is to allow for your application to work across more systems seemlessly. Do you lose that when you step out of the browser space?

[DeanMc]

Is it the browser or is it the standards used by the browser that are limiting?

The point of standards is to allow for your application to work across more systems seemlessly. Do you lose that when you step out of the browser space?

Hmmm, good questions. I believe the standards to make things harder but on a whole I believe the browser as a piece of software is too limiting for rich web applications to truly take off. Its ambiguity I feel is its limiting factor.


I believe that stepping out of the browser space may not necessarily reduce the amount of people who can view your content if companies like Microsoft took things like the .NET framework further.