Reputation

[brad jones]

maybe the Admins can zero out their reps every so often instead of disabling them?

That would then defeat the entire rep system because some of the reps would not be reflective of the community. Better to let people turn them off than to manipulate settings.

In general, many of the people that would want to turn them off are likely to be those with bad or low reps.....

Brad!

[FunkyDexter]

I have suggested before that rep/post might be a meaningful metric.

I support this 100%. Mainly because it gives me a higher rating that SzLamany and Si the Geek. Heh Heh.

edit> ... as long as we don't count CC posts. Definitely don't count CC posts.

[RhinoBull]

In general, many of the people that would want to turn them off are likely to be those with bad or low reps.....

No way! I would like to have this as an option since day one as you may recall.

[RhinoBull]

Btw, it could at least be available for those with say 10/15K+ posts. Whether or not someone uses is another story.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'd still like to hear an argument against the rep system. I know some people don't like it, I just don't know WHY!

[JPnyc]

OK, here you go. It encourages mercenary attitudes, "I'll help you if you rep me. If you don't I won't help you again". It encourages cliquishness and abuse, repping one's friends, negatively so for one's enemies. It makes extra work for the moderator crew, "I help this guy and he didn't even give me a reputation points!". "I gave this person a negative reputation point by mistake, can you reverse it?". "So-and-so gave me a negative reputation points and I don't feel I deserve it, can you reverse it?".

[MartinLiss]

I believe negative reps are turned off for the general populous.

[JPnyc]

only for a portion of them.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Ok, those are good arguments (except for the one about giving the mods more work, they should be worked like galley slaves with Brad beating on that big kettle drum), do any of them apply? I realize there was some goofy stuff going on with negatives for a time, which I assume was the reason that negatives were turned off for a portion, but was there actual cliquishness in VBF? Were people actually whining to the mods when they didn't get a rep for a particular answer? Did it work...cause if it did, I have a whole load of whining that I'm behind on?

I can see such behavior in some places, and perhaps I'm too cliquish, but I would be a bit surprised to see that activity here to any notable degree.

[RhinoBull]

I'd still like to hear an argument against the rep system. I know some people don't like it, I just don't know WHY!

And I am yet to hear at least one reasonable argument why it is so good.
Only because (as some say) that "its nice to be able to "show" this" or "I am on top of chart for some years now" is so childish and basically show-off...
Isn't it enough to see someone's posting simple "Thank You" ? I think it is.
We all are volunteers and as such shouldn't expect medals for what we do - I personally do it because I like helping and not for any rep points what so ever. Sigs containing "please rate my post" makes me feel uncomfortable to say the least...
I have my own way of saying things and for that I used to received lots of neg reps which had nothing to do (even remotely) with the topics discussed.
That's [I think] is one of the reasons why neg reps were turned off for some people - they simply abused the system. Although it was minor adjustment it was also very welcomed change indeed.
Nothing is perfect - that is true - however, if it is an option that can be toggled (perhaps like show/hide signatures - I'm hiding them, btw) at least some people will be satisfied.

[dclamp]

I agree with RhinoBull (for once) and agree that we should have the option of turning reps off. Maybe only powerposter should have this ability?

[penagate]

The argument in favour of the reputation system is that it makes it "easy" to identify whether or not someone's response is likely to be correct and of value or not... in theory.

For example, if I joined this forum, asked a question, and got several responses from new members and one from RhinoBull, I would treat the response from Rhino as most likely to be the correct one, based on his reputation. If I received a response from someone in the red, I would be more inclined to disregard it.

The argument against this (in addition to the points by RhinoBull and JPnyc) is that it favours established members who post most frequently. Someone who posts once or twice a month but is always thorough and informative will have a lower reputation than someone who posts several times an hour without putting in much effort. You could say it encourages "drive-by posting" — making frequent, short responses in an effort to gain as many reputation points as possible.

In short, the current reputation system is too simple to be useful, and so it is not much more than an ego boost for some people.

These problems could be avoided by constructing a system where:
— the thread starter (and perhaps long-time members) can rate responses as helpful or not helpful, anonymously and without a "spread" restriction;
— every reply shows a tally of helpful/not helpful votes;
— every member has a "percent of helpful responses" rating against them (perhaps).
(There are some other dedicated tech support sites do this, but I don't know of any particular system for vBulletin.)

[Shaggy Hiker]

@RB: Did you find post #36 so unreasonable? If so, tell me what lack of reason existed for any of the four points I listed and I will remedy the problem. I tried to explain clearly and concisely the reasoning behind the points (with a little flippancy in the first one), but perhaps I was not clear enough.

@Penagate: The problem I have with your proposal is two-fold. First off, I would guess (without actually measuring) that the majority of the reps I give are in threads that I have not even posted, let alone started. Secondly, it is rare for me to have gotten more than one positive from any thread, so would we really get much of a response with such a tally?, and thirdly (so that you can ignore any one of the three) we already have a means of rating threads, which could serve the same general purpose (whether a thread is useful for solving a question), yet it is almost universally ignored. Perhaps communism doesn't work and people are more motivated by self-interest.

[RhinoBull]

Alright,

1) They might encourage infrequent members...
Don't see how.

2) Gives competitive people a means to compete...
I'm here to help - not compete. Maybe you?

3) Those red beacons say SOOOOOO much...
I could care less and I'm sure many others feel the same way.

4) I have suggested before that rep/post might be a meaningful metric. I don't feel very strongly about this...
Your feelings are on the right side because it's meaningless.

[MartinLiss]

Can I make a suggestion? Since most of the members like it (for whatever reason) let's let those who do like it use it, and those that don't like it or don't care about it ignore it.

[gep13]

Can I make a suggestion? Since most of the members like it (for whatever reason) let's let those who do like it use it, and those that don't like it or don't care about it ignore it.

Sounds like a sensible suggestion to me.

[Atheist]

Can I make a suggestion? Since most of the members like it (for whatever reason) let's let those who do like it use it, and those that don't like it or don't care about it ignore it.

A very good suggestion.

[RhinoBull]

Can I make a suggestion? Since most of the members like it (for whatever reason) let's let those who do like it use it, and those that don't like it or don't care about it ignore it.

But since there are also those who dislike it why not make it as an option?
I don't understand what's the big deal about it? I really don't.
How is it different from changing your title or say how many rows per page you wish to see?

[gep13]

But since there are also those who dislike it why not make it as an option?

I have to agree with Rhino on that point. Is it not possible to extent the option of switching the rep's off for PowerPosters?

Is this another situation where it would be a break from the vBulletin template and it would need to be modified following each upgrade?

Gary

[MartinLiss]

But since there are also those who dislike it why not make it as an option?
I don't understand what's the big deal about it? I really don't.
How is it different from changing your title or say how many rows per page you wish to see?

Does it hurt you in some way when someone rates you? If not, and especially since you don't think it's a big deal, why not just ignore it?

[RhinoBull]

Is this another situation where it would be a break from the vBulletin template and it would need to be modified following each upgrade?

I don't think so - it's already available but only to site admins (not even mods).

[RhinoBull]

Marty, you know more than anybody else how much "grief" this "monster" gave me in the past.
I was against it since day one and now you ask me to ignore it? Not a chance, I'm afraid.

[JPnyc]

But as Brad already stated, it's sort of defeats the purpose. If the idea of it is to give a clear overview of the relative stature of all members on the site, if some members have it turned off, it ceases to do that.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Alright,

1) They might encourage infrequent members...
Don't see how.

2) Gives competitive people a means to compete...
I'm here to help - not compete. Maybe you?

3) Those red beacons say SOOOOOO much...
I could care less and I'm sure many others feel the same way.

4) I have suggested before that rep/post might be a meaningful metric. I don't feel very strongly about this...
Your feelings are on the right side because it's meaningless.

There is no polite response to this, so I shall just say that I have seen it.

[minitech]

Speaking of reputation, people have given me negative, positive, and neutral reputations. I only ever see one option. Why?

[gep13]

Hey,

Only Moderators and PowerPosters are able to give a disapprove rating. Everyone else can only give positive rep. Depending on the amount of posts the giver has, you will either get a neutral rep or a positive one.

Check out the FAQ's, there is a very detailed FAQ on the giving and receiving of reps.

Gary

[minitech]

That makes sense. Thanks!

[MartinLiss]

Speaking of reputation, people have given me negative, positive, and neutral reputations. I only ever see one option. Why?

BTW the "neutral" reps are from people who have less than 20 posts.

[Spoo]

Can I make a suggestion? Since most of the members like it (for whatever reason) let's let those who do like it use it, and those that don't like it or don't care about it ignore it.

Great suggestion.

May I make another? A relative newbie, I have much to learn, but I'm at
least aware of the User CP and it's default state of listing Reps.

However, there does not seem to be a way to pull up a list of whom I've
given Reps to (whereas PM's show both ways). I'm sure you guys keep
track of this. Hence -- could such a feature be added? (unless I'm missing something)

BTW, one potential benefit of such a listing would be an "at-a-glance" view of
why you are getting the "spread more Rep" message. If the person you
want to rate is three down on your list, you'd know you'd have two more to rep
before being able to re-rep this guy.

Spoo

[EntityX]

The argument in favour of the reputation system is that it makes it "easy" to identify whether or not someone's response is likely to be correct and of value or not... in theory.

For example, if I joined this forum, asked a question, and got several responses from new members and one from RhinoBull, I would treat the response from Rhino as most likely to be the correct one, based on his reputation. If I received a response from someone in the red, I would be more inclined to disregard it.

I just started looking at this thread today and only read a handful of the posts but what penagate says here is for me the strongest argument in favor of having the present reputation system. There are of course certain evils that may occur with the system but I think that they can be tolerated.

Earning money can involve enduring certain hardships. The bum on the street doesn't concern himself with earning money but among the people that do earn money we should try to live by the highest standards possible. This analogy could apply to using the reputation system. Try not to be motivated by being famous and earning lots of reputation. Give the best advice possible but don't be concerned with whether or not you recieve any reputation.

Here on VBForums I've recieved much help from members that have high reputation counts and I appreciate the help very much. I haven't given much help partly because I'm no expert in Visual Basic and I don't spend a lot of time trying to answer other people's problems but I appreciate those souls that do spend much time answering other people's problems.

[Spoo]

Give the best advice possible but don't be concerned with whether or not you recieve any reputation.

Entity .. I agree 100%
I'm a little leery of guys who include "Rate ME" in their signature lines.

BTW.. I find that when I need to take a break from my own project,
giving help, especially to newbies, can be a great diversion and rather
satisfying to boot (although, it IS nice to get a pat on the back with
added Rep -- and as you can see, I've got a long way to go )

Spoo

[techgnome]

I second that Entity ... that's pretty much how I operate, so I don't care if we keep it or not, but I do give reps when I feel they are deserved, more often than not, it's for threads I'm not even a part of...

Spoo - I'm not leery of such links/notes in sigs... but I just find it annoying.... might as well read "I've got self-esteem problems, stroke my ego and gimmie points" ... when they're small, it doesn't bother me so much... it's the ones in bold.... 50 colors, italics, underlined and in 72pt text that get me.

-tg

[Spoo]

... but I just find it annoying.... might as well read "I've got self-esteem problems, stroke my ego and gimmie points" ... when they're small, it doesn't bother me so much... it's the ones in bold.... 50 colors, italics, underlined and in 72pt text that get me.

TG

LOL.. leery wasn't the best choice of words.. your 72pt text comment,
however, nails it !! BANG.

Spoo