Economy

[dbasnett]

i think that the economy has been giving us a quiz for the last twenty years or so.

the question was should you:

a) save some money
b) buy $4 coffees, dollar waters, and new cell phones every few months

it looks like the answer was, and will be, a for a long time.

[zaza]

Except for those fortunate souls who put their money in the investment savings accounts, which have been getting hammered lately as every stock market in the world took a beating. And except those who stuck to a regular base-rate-pegged account, which in the US and the UK pays pretty much zero now. Oh, and those who saved via pensions.
In the UK, it costs a minimum of £2 (= $3) for a coffee, and much more than 60p for water.
Don't even bother going to Greece.

[dbasnett]

i said save, not invest.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Put your money under a mattress where inflation eats a bit of it every day?

Had you bought gold...you'd be really happy. Had you bought GM...you'd be really unhappy. Had you left the money in a Mason jar buried in the swamp...you'd be a Charlie Daniels Band song (and not so happy, too).

Your money will change in value over time, whether you keep it in greenbacks, Savings Bonds, Stocks, t-shirts, lottery tickets, or anything else. Save or invest, it's all a gamble on which part of the economy is going to rise, and which is going to fall.

Put a roof over your head, and food in your belly. Take a guess at what the future holds, and try to be able to repeat the performance tomorrow. That's all you can do. Sometimes you will guess right, and sometimes you won't. In the end you feed the worms.

[MasterBlaster]

i said save, not invest.

Save not invest? That has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Wall street is having a blue light special right now and you want to stuff your cash under a matress? It's no wonder America is turning into a rathole. We are the only people in the world that wait 2 months for a pair of new shoes to go on sale before we buy them but refuse to buy stocks unless they are at their highest possible price.

Quit being a dumbarse and buy some bluechips at a discount. They won't be this cheap again for another 10 - 30 years.

Sup Shaggy.

[schoolbusdriver]

Put a roof over your head, and food in your belly. Take a guess at what the future holds, and try to be able to repeat the performance tomorrow. That's all you can do. Sometimes you will guess right, and sometimes you won't. In the end you feed the worms.

Right on. And take care of family .

Quit being a dumbarse and buy some bluechips at a discount. They won't be this cheap again for another 10 - 30 years.

Unfortunately, some of us may come to the end of our natural lives before we could see a profit. Don't believe me? The Japs [impotent frustration at PC] not intended as a "racial comment" just a historical identifier [/impotent frustration at PC], didn't even know what an A-bomb was until they had first-hand experience. I don't think we've reached rock bottom yet. There's more pain to come.

Robert Peston's blog makes interesting reading at times. Our cynicism/humour is/are similar. He also gives good advice, in a backhanded way.

[MasterBlaster]

Right on. And take care of family .
Unfortunately, some of us may come to the end of our natural lives before we could see a profit. Don't believe me? The Japs [impotent frustration at PC] not intended as a "racial comment" just a historical identifier [/impotent frustration at PC], didn't even know what an A-bomb was until they had first-hand experience. I don't think we've reached rock bottom yet. There's more pain to come.

Robert Peston's blog makes interesting reading at times. Our cynicism/humour is/are similar. He also gives good advice, in a backhanded way.

Ok I'll revise my statement.

Unless you plan on dying sometime between now and 2019, Quit being a dumbarse and buy some bluechips at a discount.

You are quite correct, there is more pain to come. Regardless, either the stock market will go back up or every penny you have under your matress will be worthless any way. Might as well take a shot.

[Nightwalker83]

Where's the stash all your cash under the mattress and hope it is worth something in a few years option?

[schoolbusdriver]

Unless you plan on dying sometime between now and 2019, Quit being a dumbarse and buy some bluechips at a discount.

True, but in this humble school bus drier's opinion, we should wait a little longer. Not all of the skeletons have walked out of thir closets yet. (google "news cricket stanton").

I retire in 2017. I'm thinking of trading-in my car for a nice sturdy mini-bus. I estimate my death as 2049 or later.

(As Zathras would say "There is not enough 'time' ")

[dbasnett]

i never said put it in the mattress, and over the years i have did well with stocks. the hard part was to sell at a loss, a lesson with a good ending. i know many people that doubled up when their stock value fell, only to fall some more. look this stock up (TKO), i got in at a dollar at out at way more than that(late 2004).

i was suggesting getting into something safe and guaranteed, though at not the best of returns. my real point was that the day of the consumer and frivolous spending is gone, even if for a short while.

[zaza]

Robert Peston's blog makes interesting reading at times. Our cynicism/humour is/are similar. He also gives good advice, in a backhanded way.

Just so long as you bear in mind that Robert Peston is nothing more than a dirty scoop-chaser who has scant regard for the industry on which he commentates.
In finance, opinion does count for something and on more than one occasion that guy has caused a lot more trouble than was necessary by opening his mouth. On top of that, he fairly relentlessly peddles just one side of the story.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yo MB, long time no read.

Diversify. What's safe? What's guaranteed? Buying gold five years ago is guaranteed, wish I could do it. Buying now? Well, not so much. How about some of the US Savings bonds that dipped into negative percentages. That means you are paying the government to hold your money. My bonds are doing OK. Stocks are doing lousy. Cash....well, that will be fixing my car for now, but that's another story.

[Flavius]

According to today's economy savings is the best way like insurance.

[FunkyDexter]

Except that they've ditched interest rates through the floor. So saving turns out not to be a good strategy either.

Face it. Wir all doooooomed.

[Blakk_Majik]

As of this past year, my 401k has lost approximately 25% of it's value. I'm not going to complain too much, because I know some that have lost half or more.

However, at the end of last month (Feb), it has already lost another 12%. Needless to say, I have completely cut off my contributions to it. I'll keep what I have in there, and see if it gets better, but I refuse to put any more of my money into it.

Over the past 4 or 5 years, I've increased my holdings in the following: gold, silver, other metals, foreign currencies, and commodities. The way I figure it, someone or something is going to come out on top after this thing is over. Whether it's the Euro, corn, platinum, etc.

However, one thing I'm quite sure of is that, with the Fed kicking the printing presses into overdrive, the dollar is going to tank. Inflation (hell, maybe even hyper-inflation) is going to hit us like a runaway train and the last thing I want to be left holding is a crap load of greenbacks. I can just see the day when McDonald's replaces the $1 menu with the $5 menu.

[visualAd]

Just so long as you bear in mind that Robert Peston is nothing more than a dirty scoop-chaser who has scant regard for the industry on which he commentates.
In finance, opinion does count for something and on more than one occasion that guy has caused a lot more trouble than was necessary by opening his mouth. On top of that, he fairly relentlessly peddles just one side of the story.

When dealing with something that relies as much on trust as the economy, that guy has taken it to dinner, sweet talked it, got it drunk on cocktail, taken it back to its flat and sucked as much worth out of it as possible.

[schoolbusdriver]

Robert Peston's still got a well paid job, unlike.........................

The damage was done a long time before he became a household name. Interesting that politicians wanted to shut him up and bury their heads in the sand rather than try to regulate and reduce the effects until it was too late. I saw stock prices dropping, read his blog and shifted my cash elsewhere (NOT Iceland )

Now we know Goodwin saw it coming and arranged himself a fat pension before the sh*t hit the fan. It's even insured in such a way that the american taxpayer will pay his pension if HM GOV manages to nullify it here. I wish I was that devious.

[cyberM]

Must people live upper than thay can.This is true.
Going in the risc investment giving extrordinary results.
The solution is -> pay bigger attention on your money traffic

[visualAd]

You know what they say; what goes up, must come down.

The economy had been growing exponentially for 10 years, the growth was unsustainable, it was fuelled by something that was never there and we are all sad and depressed now that it is going in the opposite direction.

What many struggle to understand is that economies and markets are a natural phenomenon, like the weather. Because of the vast number of variables involved and that these variables are based on human interaction and decision, it is very difficult, if not impossible to control. Let it return to its natural equilibrium and things will start picking up again.

[cyberM]

Hello !

Economy of all countries have same values.
One of the most important is:
How nation live and whats theirs real standard level is ?

We all know globalization and antiglobalization movement and interests of different countries in world economy.

This summit G 20 in London is important happening for stabilization market situation in whole world.
There may decide to take concrete action to normalize the market.
This always stay : thinking globaly doing localy

One news :
Today Croatia is fullfill member of NATO !

[SJWhiteley]

Hello !

Economy of all countries have same values.
One of the most important is:
How nation live and whats theirs real standard level is ?

We all know globalization and antiglobalization movement and interests of different countries in world economy.

This summit G 20 in London is important happening for stabilization market situation in whole world.
There may decide to take concrete action to normalize the market.
This always stay : thinking globaly doing localy

One news :
Today Croatia is fullfill member of NATO !

Um, no.

the 'G20', NATO, UN, etcetera - all 'world government' organizations have only one result: form a majority to push minorities to do it their way.

Forcing a world economy is a blatant attempt to force those with to give up what they have to those without. This exact thinking that has caused this problem in the first place.

More simply, forcing an economic balance will always make the rich poor, but will never make the poor rich. The poor continue to do the things that have made them or keep them poor, while the rich will stop doing the things that make them rich because those riches will be taken away from them.

There's a lot of touting that any enactments will only hurt the rich (or, TheRich) and not touch the middle class. The problem is, everyone likes to see themselves and considers themselves no higher than middle class. In addition, most people are quite happy when enactments don't harm them - even more specifically, there's a lot of people who actively want to take from others, the prime target being The Rich (both corporations, energy companies, banking and Snotty Rich F***s). Unfortunately, all this money actually comes from the middle class - who are the majority.

Who do you work for? A Corporation who pays your wages. When said corporation must give up its profits, they have two choices: give their profits to the government or cut your salary (or fire you) and keep it's profits. Either way the Government gets its cut. The reality is that the latter path will be chosen because said Corporation has shareholders to please - i.e. the financial sector. A corporation or any companies, function has one sole purpose: to make money. When a government interferes with that, the result is what we have today.

Fundamentally, do not give money to those who cannot earn or make that money themselves. This is what financial institutions have been doing in an escalating fashion the past half century (under the guise of 'equality') and this is where we have ended up. Couple this with the increasing demand for high risk investments to make more money, the advent of greater 'information' has seen an explosive growth in incompetent investors (Rhetorical question: where do 'high risk' investments come from?). Predictably, a perturbation in this growth spiral causes an almost catastrophic breakdown.

I don't know the socio-political situation in Croatia (the closest I came was the former Yugoslavia) but it sounds like from your last statement that you have been admitted, and it's a good thing. However, you'll probably reap short-term gains but the long term growth will be stunted and limited by what the 'majority' decide is good for the world.

Remember, democracy is bad: it's the equivalent of two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. Things may go your way, particularly in the short term, but what does one do when eventually - you will be at some point - you are in the minority?

The key is diversity: by putting all regions - social, political and geographical - on the same rung of the ladder, when that rung fails, every area fails. Typically, and historically, this rung out of necessity has to be low because it will fail.

The shrinking of the globe does not mean that we will or can be all the same. It means we have a greater opportunity, with larger markets that are easier to reach. This is the only 'global thinking' that should be done.

Summarily, the g8/g20 'Team World Government' is discussing two goals: how to punish those who have and give it to those who don't.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I would actually believe that World Events might be showing some sign of life if this wasn't the first post in days.

The rich are not monolithic. Some benefit from those forms of redistribution and some don't. Some poor benefit and some don't. I've said it before, and won't reiterate in any depth, but this whole bit about taxing being good or bad is a naive simplification. The truth is not well known in economics, but it IS well studied and understood (I wouldn't say WELL understood) in other chaotic systems. Good or Bad? Try BOTH! At the same time, and alternating in ways too complex to predict.

The people who push one economic theory or another have an ideological position, not a rational one.

As for democracy: It's bad, but it's better than the alternatives.

[SJWhiteley]

...

As for democracy: It's bad, but it's better than the alternatives.

Luckily, the US is not a democracy, even though many believe so, or are trying to make it so.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Try as you might, I doubt you will revive this moribund forum. We need a good event to start a new thread. The economy is now old news.

[homer13j]

Sign of the times:

I happened to take a spin past Ford's Lorain Assembly Plant today. Back in 2001 my E250 van was built here. Unfortunately Ford no longer builds vehicles here - the last van rolled off the line in 2006 and the plant has been empty ever since. But as I went by I was shocked to see the plant's expansive parking lot jammed full of brand-new cars...

Hondas.

Tens of thousands of brand-new Hondas.



The photo does not do the scene justice. It's a perfectly flat area so I couldn't get an overhead view of all the cars, but trust me - the cars go all the way to the buildings in the distance and at least a half-mile in either direction. It's gotta be 10-15,000 cars at least.

What I figure is due to the crappy economy Honda needed a place to store a buttload of unsold cars. Ford has this huge lot with easy rail access so they are making a few bucks from Honda for storage.

Unless somebody has a better explanation why all these Hondas are sitting on Ford's property?

[cyberd]

Don't even bother going to Greece.

Hey! what about Greece... in Greece you can drink coffee with 2 Euro or less if you want to go somewhere else except Mykonos / Athens / Chalkidiki / Thessaloniki... There are beautiful places (thousand of places) that never advertised to the rest of World because of Marketing... and ofcourse water 500ml cost only 20-50 cents of euro - and ofcourse at supermarket costs about 0.09 - 0.10 euro only!

Last year (Oct.2008) i went to France - and go a walk to MonMart - i eat to a restaurant (low quality don't think something special) and pay for water 330ml 6euro !!!!!!!!! everything in France was extremely EUROEUROEURO... but ofcourse is Beautiful different from Greece...

I think that Crisis is just a bad psychology GAME - that really hearts all! because we just give more for money (more time, less friends, less love, less kids, less everything for money) Money is just PAPER! - and i am not sure that you can recycle it... is it possible ?

[System_Error]

Sign of the times:

I happened to take a spin past Ford's Lorain Assembly Plant today. Back in 2001 my E250 van was built here. Unfortunately Ford no longer builds vehicles here - the last van rolled off the line in 2006 and the plant has been empty ever since. But as I went by I was shocked to see the plant's expansive parking lot jammed full of brand-new cars...

Hondas.

Tens of thousands of brand-new Hondas.



The photo does not do the scene justice. It's a perfectly flat area so I couldn't get an overhead view of all the cars, but trust me - the cars go all the way to the buildings in the distance and at least a half-mile in either direction. It's gotta be 10-15,000 cars at least.

What I figure is due to the crappy economy Honda needed a place to store a buttload of unsold cars. Ford has this huge lot with easy rail access so they are making a few bucks from Honda for storage.

Unless somebody has a better explanation why all these Hondas are sitting on Ford's property?

http://www.autonews.com/article/2009...2/903300272/-1

Less than half a day's production you are look at

[homer13j]

http://www.autonews.com/article/2009...2/903300272/-1

You have requested a page that requires registration.

[System_Error]

Weird. Worked for me the first time. Check google.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Here's one from Google. Homer got it right:

http://www.autoblog.com/tag/ford+lorain+assembly/