Which is better for you XP or Vista?

[Visual Basic.Net]

Hi. I think that vista is just the last breath for windows systems. Microsoft unable to make balance between spying on their customer and increase the secure of their windows!!
it is the time for new systems to come up.
I just used vista for couple of months then I returned to XP. windows 7 is vista in another name, I think microsoft blunder, they want to stand up after their failure with Vista.
what do you think?

[mendhak]

Hmm, does that mean they created VB.NET so that they can spy on your code too?

[Visual Basic.Net]

they don't need to spy on my code. I mean come on !!!
I believe that they are spying for the US govrnment. the prove is that alot of government uninstalled their systems after they realized that their info are available any time for US . however, microsoft accepted finally to give them the source code!

I don't saying here that microsoft products are bad. offcourse no, but I think that we need faster development, and that will not happened in the time microsoft monopolize OS industry.
thank's

[chris128]

Vista looks a lot nicer, has a lot of useful extra features, has never ever crashed on me yet (granted I have only been using it for a month but even so) and has .NET framework 3.0 built in. What more could you ask for
Oh and for gods sake do you really think any company (even Microsoft) has the time/money to sit and spy on their customers? Especially when their customer count is in the millions... and even if they are "spying" on people, if you dont do anything illegal or whatever then you have got nothing to worry about have you.

[RobDog888]

Vista undoubtly. I have been running Vista for 2+ years and not a single crash. Much improved over XP and for programming its a completely different world. Different in a positive way although maybe not the easiest but the most secure, intuitive and productive.

[Visual Basic.Net]

Vista looks a lot nicer, has a lot of useful extra features, has never ever crashed on me yet (granted I have only been using it for a month but even so) and has .NET framework 3.0 built in. What more could you ask for
Oh and for gods sake do you really think any company (even Microsoft) has the time/money to sit and spy on their customers? Especially when their customer count is in the millions... and even if they are "spying" on people, if you dont do anything illegal or whatever then you have got nothing to worry about have you.

first thank you for sharing your opinion, second I have 2 points:
1) I like to have my privacy protected.
2) us & microsoft are not the court of the world, to say ok if they spying on people because they want to catch criminals

Any way I respect your opinion.

[Visual Basic.Net]

Vista undoubtly. I have been running Vista for 2+ years and not a single crash. Much improved over XP and for programming its a completely different world. Different in a positive way although maybe not the easiest but the most secure, intuitive and productive.

yes it is more stable, but on the other hand its way in protecting is bothersome and time wasting.
why unix is safer, and in the same time its not have such bothersome approach in protecting?
I think after years of XP age. microsoft have to produce something better than that, or open the way for other companies to enter this industry.
But microsoft will never open the way, bill what to increase his billions
until now Micro$oft trying to buy google, to sure that it is the only one controller on the industry. but it will can't, because people really need new technologies.

thant's my opinion. and I respect yours. thank's

[Nightwalker83]

Vista Ultimate after using Windows XP until it finally stopped loading properly after 5 years.

Vista undoubtly. I have been running Vista for 2+ years and not a single crash.

I can change that just give me 5 minutes alone with your computer!

[brad jones]

yes it is more stable, but on the other hand its way in protecting is bothersome and time wasting.

So you admit that Vista is more stable..... That seems positive

why unix is safer,

Please substantiate this claim. Unix has fewer issues brought out in public, but then it only has a small sliver of the operating system market.

and in the same time its not have such bothersome approach in protecting?

.... which is configurable. In Windows 7 even more so.....

I think after years of XP age. microsoft have to produce something better than that, or open the way for other companies to enter this industry. But microsoft will never open the way,

They did. They took a bad rap because 3rd party hardware companies didn't have solid develope drivers for Vista when it launched. The OS was okay, it simply lacked a lot of drivers. That is an issue that shouldn't be repeated with Windows 7 because it uses the same Vista core for the most part.

As to opening the way for otehr companies to enter the industry - that isn't Microsoft's responsibility. Other companies are free to compete and many are trying.

bill what to increase his billions

Umm.... Bill left Microsoft for the post part and spends a majority of his time with his foundation -- where he is giving away his billions....


until now Micro$oft trying to buy google, to sure that it is the only one controller on the industry. but it will can't, because people really need new technologies.

thant's my opinion. and I respect yours. thank's

Interesting opinions. You might want to avoid some of the hype that is spewed and actually dig into some of the details a little deeper.

As to which I think is better - I'd say Vista at this point. Windows 7 makes some improvements that are nice and also make some changes that will cause people to complain until they get use to them.

Brad!
Author of:
Windows XP in 10 Simple Steps or Less
Alan Simpson's Windows Vista Bible Desktop Edition

[Davadvice]

i'm a bit unsure TBH,

I run both on 4 pc's in my home. Vista is nicer but setting it up was a pain. Xp i know like the back of my hand and i like the features.

Getting used to not having the main menu there all the time is a pain and having to press alt or reseting the address bar to type in c:\documents and settings is a pain as it aint there. the other thing i struggle with is finding things in the control pannel why change the name ?? so they can then Retrain and charge £100 an hour.

Come to think of it i prefer xp, when it breaks i can fix it, vista i am worried about what i will have to do and it will break!. and stop asking if i want to continue i did double click the setup.exe

With MS and the US spying i don't realy care much. if i was an activist running a terorist training camp then i would be worried !!


David

[JuggaloBrotha]

Vista undoubtly. I have been running Vista for 2+ years and not a single crash. Much improved over XP and for programming its a completely different world. Different in a positive way although maybe not the easiest but the most secure, intuitive and productive.

lol, just try to install and hp laserjet or plug in a logitech mouse, it'll crash pretty quick. At least that's what it did for me a year ago (even when SP1 was supposed to fix stuff like that).

Win7 however may be based on vista code, but I also believe it's a lot better than vista ever could be. Look at it this way, there's a trend happening here:
*Win98 wasn't so good, but win98SE was great and lasted a long time.
*WinME and Win2k both sucked (winME sucked a lot more than win2k) but winXP (based on win2k code mind you) was excellent.
*Vista sucks major ****, so following the trend, win7 should be another good one.

[Jenner]

@JuggaloBrotha: I totally agree. I'm still an XP user. I've tried Vista 3 times now, last time for a solid month before I threw up my arms in frustration because I was tired of navigating through idiot-screens and confirming everything 5 times (OMG, trying to drag a directory structure over another one to over-write it is painful). The first two times, I tried leaving UAC on, I think turning it off was the only thing that got me past the first week when I did it the third time.

It just seems what I can accomplish in 2 clicks, or a drag-and-drop and one click in XP, takes me 3 extra actions in Vista. Navigating the control panel screens is the most unintuitive thing I've ever seen, with the more useful, advanced screens like the Device Manager buried under additional layers of idiot screens.

If there was a way to bypass the idiot screens and jump straight to the control dialogs, I'd be much happier.

Windows 7 looks promising though, and going with Microsoft's pattern of "Do things different->Release Version->Listen to Customers->Release Version->Do things different->Release Version" I'm holding out for Windows 7.

[Atheist]

Vista.
ill be posting more on this subject when i get home from uni...

[dilettante]

What I'd like to hear about is new infrastructure we can leverage for applications that comes in Vista and Windows 7. We're at a point where we can let XP die now after all.

So far I don't see anything new and compelling though. Everything sems to relate to either GUI dialogs and UXTheme improvements or underpinnings you can't really use in your programs (though nice improvements nonethless).

Where is the new NAT Traversal API? A generic socket server you can plug service applets into? The secure inter-network RPC without the overhead of XML-based web services? An open protocol reliable messaging infrastructure? Jet/ACE+ as part of the OS, removing the 2/4GB file size cap (SQL Server doesn't cut it for most applications, even in the form of Compact Edition - it's a deployment nightmare).

[chris128]

If there was a way to bypass the idiot screens and jump straight to the control dialogs, I'd be much happier.

There is... Start -> Run
For example. Start -> Run -> devmgmt.msc will open device manager. services.msc will open the services console, appwiz.cpl will open add/remove programs, eventvwr.exe will open the event viewer etc etc etc.

[Atheist]

lol, just try to install and hp laserjet or plug in a logitech mouse, it'll crash pretty quick. At least that's what it did for me a year ago (even when SP1 was supposed to fix stuff like that).

Win7 however may be based on vista code, but I also believe it's a lot better than vista ever could be. Look at it this way, there's a trend happening here:
*Win98 wasn't so good, but win98SE was great and lasted a long time.
*WinME and Win2k both sucked (winME sucked a lot more than win2k) but winXP (based on win2k code mind you) was excellent.
*Vista sucks major dick, so following the trend, win7 should be another good one.

Yes I'm sure all HP laserjets and Logitech mouses crash on all Vista computers.

Saying that Vista sucks major <obscenity> is a bold statement to make.

I get the feeling that this thread wasnt really intended as a poll to see who uses what OS, but as an excuse to bash Vista and start yet another flame war. Especially with the OP starting out the thread with such a post.

[chris128]

Same here, and until a month ago when I got Vista I would of been inclined to believe such comments... but I installed the 64-bit edition of Vista Ultimate and had no problems at all with any drivers (and I built my own PC, it didn't come preloaded with necessary drivers etc).
Stuck 8 GB of RAM in it and it recognised it all fine, despite some fools claiming that even the 64 bit edition doesnt recognise more than 4 GB...
Sure there are things I dont like about it but I will get used to them over time and none of them are major. The new features like volume shadow copy (aka Previous Versions) and the image based backup utility make up for those minor annoyances.

[Davadvice]

I'm sure we done this last year, and Athiest i think you are correct.

Knowing there are some MS fanboys on here it will get even hotter in the debate.

i do however enjoy the heated debates that happen in here.

David

[chris128]

well at least it makes a change from all the other pointless arguments on the internet where its the other way around and everyone is slating Vista

[Jenner]

There is... Start -> Run
For example. Start -> Run -> devmgmt.msc will open device manager. services.msc will open the services console, appwiz.cpl will open add/remove programs, eventvwr.exe will open the event viewer etc etc etc.

...without memorizing 4 dozen throwback 8.3 filenames for all the dialogs I want.

Seriously though, Windows 7 really looks slick. I think I'm really going to like the OS level ribbons.

[chris128]

so you saying you would like a screen that labels these utilities and lets you choose which one you want to open? Perhaps have an icon for each one too to help you identify them and maybe a description of what each one does yeah?

Is that not exactly what you are referring to when you say an "idiot screen" ?

Also, if you dont like typing things into the Run box, just create shortcuts to the necessary snap-ins or control panel apps. You cant get any simpler than clicking a shortcut on your desktop or typing one word into the Run box so I dont really know what else you expect Microsoft to do... Yes there are 'unnecessary' screens that you can go through but they are for the less experienced users that probably wont ever want to go into the advanced settings anyway. My opinion is that anyone who wants to go messing around with services, device manager etc etc should be smart enough to be able to create a shortcut on their desktop if its something they are going to be frequently doing

[Atheist]

One thing I ment to ask before but forgot is.. in what way are Microsoft spying on their customers?

[Visual Basic.Net]

Read: Microsoft spying? Linux is looking better
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-125321.html

[Hack]

What are your comments on Post #9?

[Atheist]

Read: Microsoft spying? Linux is looking better
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-125321.html

Just read it now. All I can think off right now is "and..?"
That article says nothing that Microsoft really would be spying on anyone, it simply tells of a highly paranoid goverment.

[kfcSmitty]

Read: Microsoft spying? Linux is looking better
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-125321.html

There is no actual evidence in that story. They claim 1 employee of Microsoft told them it exists...

As for me, I'm pro-Vista. I used Vista back before SP1 and didn't like it at all, so I went back to XP.

Since then, I bought a new PC from Dell and it came with Vista Home Premium on it. It has some limitations for me (such as not being able to modify certain policies), but the OS itself has run smooth and error-free for several months now.

Sure I get the occasional crash screen, but I did on XP as well, and even with UAC on, I don't find it too intrusive.

I have to admit though, since I've gotten my new job and program mainly through Lotus Notes, I haven't touched .NET, so I'm not sure how other programming languages work in Vista. Domino seems to have no issues what-so-ever.

[si_the_geek]

There are plenty of reasons to like or dislike something (especially when that something has as many features as Windows does), so I don't understand why people feel the need to make extreme claims based on little or no evidence.

I've heard claims of spying type issues before, but don't think I've ever seen any kind of proof - that article (which is simply a reporter saying "somebody in China thinks it happens") is about as good as it gets.

Based on the same kind of argument, I can say with absolute certainty that the world is flat, the Martians are living among us, and that Elvis is still touring somewhere in Yorkshire - all of which are things that I would not believe, but have significantly better evidence than the spying claim.


If you have an actual reason for not liking Vista (perhaps due to UAC/driver issues/etc) then that makes sense, there is no need to make unfounded claims.

They claim 1 employee of Microsoft told them it exists...

No it doesn't - it says that somebody from Microsoft told them that the conspiracy theory/paranoia exists.

[chris128]

This whole thing reminds me of something one of my friends told me years ago. He said that Windows keeps a record of absolutely everything you do, everytime you type something or visit a website or edit a file etc, it saves the details forever. I cant understand where people think this information is stored! I think a log file that detailed that is never archived or truncated would become pretty evident if it existed as your hard drive would fill itself up quite quickly...
I think people just like to hate big 'popular' companies like Microsoft because they have a massive percentage of the market. It happens with pretty much everything, once a company starts to dominate their corner of the market then a lot of people like to just hate them for the sake of it to 'rebel' and feel like they are better or smarter than everyone else.

Another thing I cant get over is that UAC essentially just mimics something that has been present in Linux systems for a while... yet in Linux everyone praises the security of it and then in Windows (where they have made it easier, you just click something instead of having to type some command line to run something in admin/root mode) it gets slated for being intrusive...
Oh and all these people moaning about UAC never seem to mention the fact that you can turn it off. I turned it off because I am an IT support engineer and I think I'm sensible enough to avoid viruses etc (never had one yet) but for your average user I think its a great way to protect people.

[kfcSmitty]

No it doesn't - it says that somebody from Microsoft told them that the conspiracy theory/paranoia exists.

Ah, yeah, I see now -- I misread. Of course, if I claim I messed up my context, the "it" could be the theory!

[mendhak]

I didn't say anything initially because I fell in love with the whole "Microsoft is spying on you" (and related) comments and wanted to see how the thread would play out. It was somewhat amusing.

I've often seen people who live with complete misconceptions about many companies and how the work and absolutely refuse to do any research "because they don't need to."

This comes out as a result of the "sticking it to the man" school of self-validation. Microsoft is viewed as a megalithic, faceless corporation that 'controls' everything simply due to its ubiquity, and so Microsoft-bashing becomes something that someone will do to appear 'cool'. I thought this fad had died out in the early 90s, but unfortunately, it still seems to linger. The psychology behind this (yes, I studied it) is a combination of jealousy, nonconformism and the desire for self-validation as well as 'uniqueness'. This is an inherent trait of people I refer to as 'mactards' - it is the same thought process which requires brazen demonstrations of associative loyalty.

People who know how to operate computers well and understand it don't feel the need to state it, because they are otherwise occupied with doings things with it. Imagine if you got up at random intervals or mentioned, in conversations, "Wow, Windows Vista is so good, because I know how to use it and I understand how computers work!" You can't do that. Statements of exclamation are usually of a nature of congratulatory peer approval or complaints.

Articles such as the one linked to in this thread (the one on ZDNet) are the evolution of this same mentality - instead of outright bashing, it's a bit more subtle - sensationalist headline, minimal content of no relevance. Take this one as another example. The headline makes it look like, at first glance, that Microsoft wants you to switch. Reading the article then simply demonstrates that it's sensationalist - security flaws are revealed in all browsers all the time - and the tense switches to the first person at the end of the article, despite mentioning that you should patch as soon as possible. Clearly, the author does not realize that patching fixes things. Patching always fixes things. In all browsers. All software. That is the point of a patch.

[Atheist]

I applaude you mendhak. Good post.

[dilettante]

They should buy this ad from IBM and put in Vista at the end (instead of the dead horse Lotus Notes).

I was promised Flying Cars