Canadian Parliament - Problem with a multi party system

[SurfDemon]

I don't know if many of you are following it, but up here in Canada, we're having a right old constitutional crisis.

Basically what has happened is; at the last elections the following party's got the following percentages/seats in Parliament (in order).
Conservative 37.65% - 143 seats in Parliament
Liberal 26.26% - 77 seats in Parliament
Bloc Quebecois 9.98% - 49 seats in Parliament
New Democrat 18.18% - 37 seats in Parliament
Green 6.78% - 0 seats in Parliament

So, no problems there, (apart from the fact that a party can get into 3rd place with fewer votes than the party in 4th place), the Conservatives get to hold power.

In the last few days, the liberal leader has announced that he's forming a coallition with the Bloc Quebecois and New Democrat party's to create a majority in the house and effectively overthrow the government.

Needless to say there have been massive protests about this. Now, it is actually allowed by Canadian law (vote of no confidence) as a safety net incase a government gets to radical, but the point here is that although our government isn't great, it's not also not exactly doing a bad job.... so that situation doesn't really apply.

But what really grinds people's gears is that the Bloc Quebecois party's stated target is to seperate Quebec from the rest of Canada (yes, they're mental I know, but they seem to think that the rest of Canada doesn't like them because they're of French descent). So they only get 10% of the vote, but get to have a hand in running the country? A country they publicly want to split up?

I think it should be fairly obvious why Canadians are up in arms about it.

Now, this is an obvious downside to the multi-party system. I don't like the idea of being railroaded into only a couple of choices either.... so, what is the perfect (or as good as we can get) electoral system?

[Shaggy Hiker]

Obviously, the number of seats has only a modest amount to do with the percentage of the vote, as the two are decidedly NOT proportional. Is the system more like the US system where there are various districts, and the winner of each district wins the seat regardless of the overall percentages of the state or country? Do you also have gerrymandering where district lines are drawn to maximize the likelihood of certain outcomes?

[Torc]

There is no "Perfect" electoral system, each one has its drawbacks.

As for the best one you can get, I suspect that it would depend on the circumstances.

One thing that causes problems in electoral systems is voter apathy.

I believe that the best system is one which gets as many people voting as possible.

I seem to recall that in Australia you have a simple choice of vote or pay a fine,
personally I am not sure if that is a good idea, although it should ensure
a high turnout.

[Nightwalker83]

I don't know if many of you are following it, but up here in Canada, we're having a right old constitutional crisis.

Basically what has happened is; at the last elections the following party's got the following percentages/seats in Parliament (in order).
Conservative 37.65% - 143 seats in Parliament
Liberal 26.26% - 77 seats in Parliament
Bloc Quebecois 9.98% - 49 seats in Parliament
New Democrat 18.18% - 37 seats in Parliament
Green 6.78% - 0 seats in Parliament

So, no problems there, (apart from the fact that a party can get into 3rd place with fewer votes than the party in 4th place), the Conservatives get to hold power.

Here in Australia our liberal party are the conservatives.

In the last few days, the liberal leader has announced that he's forming a coallition with the Bloc Quebecois and New Democrat party's to create a majority in the house and effectively overthrow the government.

Wow! Sounds like Canada has a system that allows foreigners to tell them what to do. That is if you count Quebec as not being part of Canada which, by the sound of things Quebecian's don't think they are.

But what really grinds people's gears is that the Bloc Quebecois party's stated target is to seperate Quebec from the rest of Canada (yes, they're mental I know, but they seem to think that the rest of Canada doesn't like them because they're of French descent).

Why don't people from Quebec go back to France then? At least they can start a war with the English if they find something to argue about.

[SurfDemon]

Wow! Sounds like Canada has a system that allows foreigners to tell them what to do. That is if you count Quebec as not being part of Canada which, by the sound of things Quebecian's don't think they are.

Why don't people from Quebec go back to France then? At least they can start a war with the English if they find something to argue about.

This is where it starts to get fun. The (slim) majority of Quebecer's do want to remain part of Canada, it's just the mad mad mad seperatists who strongly believe that they would be better off as a seperate nation. Quebec accounts for roughly a quarter of Canada's population, yet Bloc Quebecois only got 10% of the total vote, which would suggest that more than half of them didn't vote for the bloc.

So, it's tricky, do you allow a quarter of your population to leave (and take the land with them). Of course, they feel hard done by because nobody's investing in Quebec...... but they've now created an atmosphere where no major corporation is going to invest heavily in Quebec incase they cut ties with Canada.....

[schoolbusdriver]

Why don't people from Quebec go back to France then? At least they can start a war with the English if they find something to argue about.

They'd lose. Again. They always lose against us. They're losers. Maybe the Canadians should hire some English muscle.

[Nightwalker83]

So, it's tricky, do you allow a quarter of your population to leave (and take the land with them). Of course, they feel hard done by because nobody's investing in Quebec...... but they've now created an atmosphere where no major corporation is going to invest heavily in Quebec incase they cut ties with Canada.....

Ok say to the minor who wants a free trip to France?

They'd lose. Again. They always lose against us. They're losers. Maybe the Canadians should hire some English muscle.

That is where you are wrong! If the French didn't help the colonists 200 - 300 years ago America would probably still be a British colony.

[FunkyDexter]

They put up a good scrap in 1066 too. Mind you, since then they do rather seem to have gone down hill a bit.

Why don't people from Quebec go back to France then?

errr... because they're not French? They're French Canadian. If you down the 'Go Back where you came from' path then Europe's going to get awfully crowded (or Africa more accurately).

Separatist movements start for a variety of reasons. Economic, political, social, patriotic, historical but always out of an underlying sense that they are somehow different to the rest of the populace. If it reaches a point where the majority of the population of an area support a separatist stance I'd generally advocate allowing a break away state with strong ties to the original state or a system of localised autonomy within the main state (similar to Wales and Scotland in the UK). I really don't hold with the view that a state is somehow a sacresanct entity that's set in stone for all time. Of course, in this case it doesn't sound like there is a majority but in that case I doubt any deal bloc Quebecois do with the Liberals will actually lead to a break away state - more likely it will lead to a certain amount of localised autonomy.

[schoolbusdriver]

That is where you are wrong! If the French didn't help the colonists 200 - 300 years ago America would probably still be a British colony.

Exactly! I see that you understand it was an American victory not a french one. The traitorous colonists needed cannon fodder.

On a more serious note, coalition governments tend to fall apart at even minor conflicts of interest. Italy is a prime example - only bureaucratic inertia stops it becoming an anarchy.

I didn't know the Canadian constitution allowed coalitions . I suppose it could be prevented by engineering a mutually exclusive paradoxical situation between the respective parties.

[Shaggy Hiker]

It'll all blow over. The winter storms are building in. By the time the Canadians get their tongues off the flag poles, which should be about April this year, they'll have forgotten about the whole thing.

[SurfDemon]

Sorry, been travelling the world quite alot in the last few weeks and haven't had a chance to join in.

Unfortunately, this argument has been going on for years (Quebec wanting to seperate from Canada), and every now and again they hold a referendum and each time it is defeated (by a slim margin). What worries me is that this seems totally unfair to the people who have made their lives in Quebec because it is part of Canada.