shady ISP, or smart move?

[kleinma]

I noticed something interesting today. Apparently my internet provider which shall remain nameless, or shall be called cablevision, has decided to provide their own search engine for me, even if I don't want to use it.

What I mean is, when I type something in the address bar that isn't a valid URL, the browser steps in and does a search using the provider I specified. That is normal.

However, if I type in a valid (by syntax) URL that can't be resolved, like www.vbforums.con, then my ISP intercepts the DNS error, and gives me a search results page from their search engine.

There are no ads on the search page (yet), except for sponsored search results which of course appear before any real search results.

What do you think of this practice?

[mendhak]

I read about it on Slashdot a few days ago

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?...36229&from=rss

I remember when (NetSol?) did this a few months or years ago, except it affected more than half the world. It's obviously a shady practice for money. I don't like ISPs breaking the Internet.

[RobDog888]

Netsol isnt a ISP (AFAIK) so what they were doing may be different?

[kleinma]

thanks for the link mend, I found a link to an optout page posted in one of the comments of that thread.

[wossname]

Just stop using their proxy. This kind of thing is not uncommon and there's nothing illegal about it as far as I know.

For example, when browsing the web on your cellphone on a certain nameless cellphone network (I shall refer to them as "Bodafone"), they will decorate the content that appears on your screen by adding a Bodafone header and footer to the HTML - before it gets to the phone!

This, in theory, means you've always got a familiar Bodafone banner at top and bottom of all the pages you visit and can instantly jump back to Bodafone's on-net web pages.

It is of course highly morally suspect but there you go. All you need do to get around that is to not use the webproxy that they tell you to use. The millions of Vo-... I mean Bodafone customers (sheep) will blindly do what they are told or simply not stray from the preprogrammed SIM defaults.

It is legal but certainly questionable practice.

[kleinma]

so you mean don't use their DNS server settings?

[wossname]

Their proxy would do DNS on your behalf. So not using their proxy would also force you to do DNS the normal way.

[kleinma]

forgive my proxy ignorance, but how exactly would I be able to do that? As it stands right now, I get a cable modem from them, plug it in, and they issue me an IP (which is dynamic, but more or less static).

I know how to manually configure DNS servers in IP settings, but I guess I don't know how I would change proxy settings. Is this something that needs to be done at the OS level, router level, or modem level?

[wossname]

Router level probably, but it could be OS (browser) level. Can you show us all the settings they tell you to use (eg. do they have a "standard settings" page on their support site?).

See wossy can be civil and helpful sometimes!

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, but only in chit-chat.

[wossname]

*fixes SH with a steely glare*

[wossname]

I have something in my eye.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Is it steel?

No matter, I shall monitor this thread, as I expect to learn something from it in the end.

[kleinma]

I do 0 configutation on my end. It is as simple as plugin, and it works.

Perhaps I have been spoiled by cablevision, as it has been this way since they started offering internet service, which was when I got rid of dialup, about 7 years ago.

I do know there is a way to log directly into the modem via some IP address, however I don't know if there are user configurable settings or not.

In any event, I can tell you I do nothing to get things working, other than plug it all in. my lan settings box in IE is totally empty, using all defaults. My windows box is simply pulling a DHCP IP from the router, and the router gets its wan IP from the modem.

[kleinma]

an additional note is that if I were to eliminate the router, the PC would simply pull a public IP from the modem, and work exactly the same. No configutation required on my end. Not even any user ids and passwords. They use the hardware ID of the modem to id your account and give you an IP.

[wossname]

What possessed you to use this ISP? Was someone blackmailing you? If anyone else has an idea then feel free to jump in. Matt's configuration sounds too random for my liking. I like to have a say in what goes on on my network. Horses for courses, I guess.

[kleinma]

Well I don't know how they do things across the pond, but here there are more or less monopolies on the telecoms which makes for poor pickens.

I really can't complain about the service though, it is super fast, and has been down maybe once for an hour in the past several years.

Anyways, cable companies don't overlap here. If you want cable service, you get whatever carrier services where you live. They are all part of this big cable consortium. It used to be pretty much the ONLY alternative for TV service was satellite, until Verizon finally layed down their FIOS network to compete with the cable companies by offering TV, internet, and phone. Verizon previously offered DSL, but it was slow and was no comparison to cable service of 15 down and 5 up.

So that is why I have the carrier I have. Believe it or not, I think verizon is actually MORE restrictive with their service, and even require that you MUST use their router which they conveniently combined with their modem to make it so you have no choice.

I am not sure what you mean about the network... they don't change any settings on my computer or router or anything like that, they just have a 0 config setup to get things working. As long as you plug in a cable modem that they have registered its MAC for service, the modem can get an IP, from there its all like normal (the normal I know anyway).

[wossname]

they just have a 0 config setup to get things working

That goes firmly in my "cons" box rather than "pros".

It means you have no control over anything. You are either connected or you are not.
Maybe they have some alternative APN for corporate users or at least people who want a decent service? Have you had a look at their support pages?

[wossname]

This is taking too long already, find another ISP before this one takes all your time up.

srsly dud.

[kleinma]

I already opted out of the DNS error redirects (via mends link), so all is back to normal. I was just more curious than anything else as to your mention of setting proxy settings and what not.

As far as I know, there are no ISPs for the consumer market in the US that allow super fine grained control over these settings. Perhaps if you were to get business grade services, T1s or something like that, you would have more control.

[mendhak]

Well I don't know how they do things across the pond, but here there are more or less monopolies on the telecoms which makes for poor pickens.

I really can't complain about the service though, it is super fast, and has been down maybe once for an hour in the past several years.

Anyways, cable companies don't overlap here. If you want cable service, you get whatever carrier services where you live. They are all part of this big cable consortium. It used to be pretty much the ONLY alternative for TV service was satellite, until Verizon finally layed down their FIOS network to compete with the cable companies by offering TV, internet, and phone. Verizon previously offered DSL, but it was slow and was no comparison to cable service of 15 down and 5 up.

So that is why I have the carrier I have. Believe it or not, I think verizon is actually MORE restrictive with their service, and even require that you MUST use their router which they conveniently combined with their modem to make it so you have no choice.

I am not sure what you mean about the network... they don't change any settings on my computer or router or anything like that, they just have a 0 config setup to get things working. As long as you plug in a cable modem that they have registered its MAC for service, the modem can get an IP, from there its all like normal (the normal I know anyway).

That's amazing. I'm in the UK and I have 9 options where I live. Even in third world countries like Myanmar and Mongolia, I had about 4 to 8 options. I find it amazing and strange (did I mention amazing?) that monopolies like this would exist there... that sounds completely unfair to you.

What you could have done (because you probably won't do it now) is to find a public proxy server, a search will give you lots of choices. Some are free, some are paid. You'd then have to tunnel using Putty or something similar to that proxy server so that all your traffic (not just browser) is routed via their servers. According to the Cablevision stats, all of your bandwidth and traffic will be going to that one IP for the whole month, but that proxy server routes all your traffic for you.

[kleinma]

To be clear there are several ISPs, however when it comes to true "high speed" connections for consumers, there are only 2 companies (local cable or verizon). All others are either dialup or dsl, and all the dsl is just resellers of verizon dsl anyway. There probably are some satellite options, but their speeds are probably between dialup and dsl.

[MaximilianMayrhofer]

Here in singapore we only have 2 providers for internet surfing. But each one offers about 20 different plans/methods of connecting. On the plus side, my internet settings are highly configurable, I don't get any DNS redirects and it's fast.