[2008] Application Examples

[Psychlotron]

Does anyone know of a good source to find complete applications written in VB 2005 or 2008 with source code included? I just want to go through some real world applications to get an idea of how professional programmers program. I'd like to get an idea of how all the disconnected topics written about in books get actually integrated into a real world application. I don't particularly care too much what the application is about, so long as it isn't too esoteric as to be meaningless. Is it just a pipe dream?

Specifically, I'd love to see a real application using LINQ to SQL or the Entity Framework. I read all these tutorials and blogs about these technologies but I never see anything other than limited little examples that often, in the context of a rich application become so intertwined with other requirements that the examples are no longer particularly useful.

I'd like to read through a couple of applications like detective novels... and figure out "who dun' it".

Thanks,
Jerome

[stanav]

Your best best is search for some open source programs... Shouldn't be too hard to find one with Google. Download the source code and study it... If you're looking for "real world applications" as commercially sold programs then I doubt that you would find any...

[RobDog888]

Search the Microsoft site as they have tutorials with full code and also video tutorials too.

[stanav]

Rob, he's asking for "real world applications" source code... Not the 101 examples from MS

[RobDog888]

Oh so I see. Yea there is not "real world" full applications except for perhaps something very limited in an opensource atmosphere.

The EF is still very new and in its first version so there isnt very much out there in depth on it.

Perhaps buying a book or two on the subjects you wish to learn more on would be better time spent.

[Psychlotron]

Yeah, I have books. I just sometimes get frustrated by the disconnectedness of them. Or, sometimes you get books that develop an application in the process of teaching about database access. But the final application is always pretty basic, and the book is littered with things like: "In an actual application you would do such and such, but that is beyond the scope of this book..." etc.

I would like to see multithreading used in the context of SQL transactions or LINQ and a rich event structure to handle user-canceled operations, etc. And there are so many sources on the internet, but unfortunately, most of them are very low quality.

But yeah, I'll go searching for some open source apps. What would be really cool, and maybe as I learn more, I should do something like this: but create a resource website that has a bunch of real (but perhaps slightly outdated) programs with a tutorial document alongside it that explains different routes into the program for conceptually understanding what is going on and learning common and best programming practices.

Something like that would cut down on learning time immensely, at least for people like me who learn a lot more by simply seeing something done, then getting abstract theoretical explanations divorced from any real world examples.

I hate learning about delegates in the context of DogBarking classes. And events in the context of GoodMorning, GoodEvening, and GoodNight message boxes.

Know what I mean?

-Jerome

[nmadd]

You could start here:
http://sourceforge.net/search/index.php?words=vb.net

This is in C# but here's 160K lines of open source goodness:
http://www.getpaint.net/download.html

[Psychlotron]

Thanks nmadd! I'm going to take a good look at that paint program this weekend.

-Jerome

[Psychlotron]

Yeah! That's a detective novel all right. I doubt I'll ever figure out who dun' it.

[kleinma]

I feel like most things targetting the bleeding edge features of .NET are mostly for internal use by various companies of various sizes.

You don't see too much coming out for the commercial software sector because most commercial software is still trying to support older operating systems, or cross platform applications, which means .NET is totally out of the picture (for the latter case). Many commercial apps are still native code (C++ mostly) if for no better reason than it can be easily ported to the mac now that they run on intel processors.

I dont have to worry about macs, but I do sell commercial software, and most of my customers are the kinds of people who do not invest heavily in computers. So that means upwards of 25% of my customer base is using Windows 98. Sure the majority are running XP now at least, but I still have to support 98, ME, and 2000, which means I can't use anything above .NET 2.0

[Psychlotron]

Kleinma, few things frustrate me more than having to keep working with old and incomplete technologies. But that's my own prejudice. I'm in the (for me) enviable situation of being able to do everything in .Net 3.5. All the computers here run XP.

Ironically, however, now that I did the sp1 upgrade I'm getting an error when I try and test the application on other systems: it says I must install System.Data.Entity version 3.5.0.0.0... in the Global Assembly Cache. DOH!

Well, I better get around to that.

-jerome

[kleinma]

That sounds more like the other machines also need .NET 3.5 SP1 since if you upgraded your dev box to SP1, it is now using the SP1 framework files in your app.

Before you go messing with the GAC, try installing the .NET 3.5 Framework SP1 upgrade on the user machines (or at least 1 to test )

[techgnome]

try http://www.codeplex.com/ - the .NET source for Open Source projects

-tg

[Psychlotron]

Thank you Techgnome. Perfect. Exactly what I was looking for.

Kleinma: actually, I found some threads on msdn that dealt with the issue. It has something to do with ClickOnce. I had to remove references to System.Data.Entity, which in fact I wasn't using anyway, and then, interestingly enough, I had to remove the Suite Name that I had defined in the Properties. I also changed a few other things, forgetting my experimental technique, so I don't ultimately which of those changes worked, but its all fine now. I didn't particularly feel like installing SP1 on any machines today

-Jerome

[DeanMc]

Actually I would like to say here that real world applications are no different to your own. The only difference may be bits of code in there for bug fixes but programming is on of those things that what you learn is what you would code. I would suggest reading up on some articles that deal with deepening your understanding of programming in general.

For instance Code Complete 2 and Writing Secure Code are both language neutral but you can learn a great deal about programming from them. Another option would be to post your code on wesites and let people pick it about. You will learn a great deal if people can review your code. Remember though if you take this route bear in mind that there are many ways to complete the same task so know the difference between some helping to refine your code and someone tells you your code is wrong because they know how to do it a different way.

[Psychlotron]

DeanMC... well, I understand after having looked at some open source resources that the code is quite poor, etc.

What I meant, specifically, was programs written by teams of programmers who had applied the concepts in Code Complete and Code Secure.

I have Code Complete and am reading through it and applying what I am able to. In fact, it was with that book in mind that I asked my question. I was hoping to see real world, complete programs, that apply the concepts in Code Complete.

I am able to read more abstract articles about language concepts and apply them into my code. But I just assume that people who have worked with these concepts and learned them at least partly in school and then refined their understanding through years of industry work will probably apply theoretical ideas in enlightening ways.

Thanks,
jerome

[DeanMc]

Do remember one very important thing. There is a big difference between writing code and reading about it. "Enlightening Ways" tend to get thrown out the window in a lot of production code. For instance, theoreticly if I type a word into a search bar I should get results for the word and its dirivitives. Yet google preforms the complete oposite, it gives results based on previous views and link backs etc. Basicly Rank and Relivence.

I really wish I had some production code to show you as it doesnt look like achedmic code at all, it really is a balance between power and maintainablity. Unfortunatly any production code i have seen or know of I could not post here. And this is probably the issue you are going to run into.

You could always get an internship (if you are that age). Thats one way of seeing production code.

[Psychlotron]

I'm in a sort of internship. I've been hired to learn-to, and write an application. I just don't have a mentor. So I'm mentoring myself.

I've definitely learned about the balance between employing clever involutions of logic and writing something that will be easy to step back into and update at a later time. It's like Steve Mcconnell says: the less complexity, the better.

I just find it amazing how closed the software industry is. But I suppose that is especially true in relation to .NET code, since it seems to be so oriented towards business applications.

-Jerome

[DeanMc]

It simply because of the fact that while a lot of effort may go into a source file all it takes is Ctrl c to duplicate it. Therefore the level of restriction goes up.