Bush doing well!

**simonm** · Apr 30th, 2001, 08:02 AM

On the BBC news this morning, they were saying that most Americans were pleased with the way president Bush is running the country so far.

What's that all about then?

I get the impression from posts i've read in this forum that he is very unpopular but judging from the news report, it seems that the wider public approve of him.

What does an American president have to do to become unpopular these days?

**Jamagei** · Apr 30th, 2001, 08:17 AM

ban guns. They'd impeach for sure.

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:24 AM

All I have to say is.........don't believe everything you read!

**simonm** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:30 AM

What do you mean, in this forum or generally?

**Jamagei** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:31 AM

and also when they say 'most americans' they actaully mean, most americans who voted for Bush, and most americans who said that Bush was a good president. They should have said, "All americans who voted for Bush and all americans that said they liked the Bush Administration are pleased with the way Bush is running the country.

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:33 AM

Both!! I hear the same thing on the news about Bush but the people I talk to day to day are not happy at all with what's going on.....I tend to think the media tries to dictate how you should think but not all of us are buying it!!!!!!!

**Kzin** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by simonm
On the BBC news this morning, they were saying that most Americans were pleased with the way president Bush is running the country so far.

I looked at the BBC web site (all phrased in wonderful diplomatic BBCish) and I think "pleased" is a bit of an overstatement

Originally posted by simonm

What does an American president have to do to become unpopular these days?

Another Vietnam?

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:40 AM

OUCH!

**Kzin** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by barrk
Both!! I hear the same thing on the news about Bush but the people I talk to day to day are not happy at all with what's going on.....I tend to think the media tries to dictate how you should think but not all of us are buying it!!!!!!!

But Katie - about half your voters (minus those who could only manage a dimpled chad

) voted for him so it can't be just the media -

- and he seems to have done exactly what he promised so they still must be pleased

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 09:58 AM

Bush did not win the popular vote...he won the vote on electoral votes...he does not have the mandate of the majority.

**simonm** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:04 AM

Katie,

Please explain what the difference is between the 'popular' vote and the 'electoral' vote.

It's not clear to me what you mean...

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:10 AM

The United States is a Republic....which means that we elect the people who speak for us.

Each state has a certain amount of electoral votes. This is determined by the population. This is to avoid the people in the most populous states votes outweighing the people in the less populated votes. The members of the electoral college cast votes for who the people of the state want.

The winner of the election is determined by who got the majority of electoral votes not the count of each persons vote.

The state of Florida had 25 electoral votes....Bush "won" the vote in of the people in Florida so he got the electoral votes.

**simonm** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:24 AM

Katie,
Thanks for the explanation but it's still unclear (for me anyway).

The members of the electoral college cast votes for who the people of the state want.

How do the electoral colleges decide who the people of the state want?

Is an 'electoral college' the equivilant of a 'consituancy' in this country?

By the way,

The United States is a Republic....which means that we elect the people who speak for us.

As I understand it, a republic is nation that determines it's head of state by any means other than hereditary right. Therefore a republic is not necessarilly democratic!

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by simonm
Katie,
Thanks for the explanation but it's still unclear (for me anyway).

How do the electoral colleges decide who the people of the state want?

By the popular vote.

Is an 'electoral college' the equivilant of a 'consituancy' in this country?

I'm unfamiliar with a consituancy...sorry.

By the way,

As I understand it, a republic is nation that determines it's head of state by any means other than hereditary right. Therefore a republic is not necessarilly democratic!

My point exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Kzin** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by barrk
Bush did not win the popular vote...he won the vote on electoral votes...he does not have the mandate of the majority.

I guess I could look it up

(i couldn't find a 'lazy' smile) but what proportion of the popular vote did each candidate get ?

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:32 AM

I'd have to look up the specific numbers(yep..I'm lazy too) but I do know that Gore got 51% of the popular vote so that only leaves 49% for the indies and Bush.

**Kzin** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by barrk
I'd have to look up the specific numbers(yep..I'm lazy too) but I do know that Gore got 51% of the popular vote so that only leaves 49% for the indies and Bush.

- it is a familiar story as essentially our parliamentry process is similar to your electoral college system in that way so almost all British governments are minority ones (with the exceptions of Thatcher and Blair).

- still it makes about half your voters - a significant mandate and not just a couple or rednecks holed up the the woods somewhere

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Kzin
- still it makes about half your voters - a significant mandate and not just a couple or rednecks holed up the the woods somewhere

Truly frightening isn't it?

**chrisjk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by barrk
indies

Indie bands? What are they doing in a presidential election???

**Kzin** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by barrk

Truly frightening isn't it?

Truly!!

**Kzin** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by chrisjk
Indie bands? What are they doing in a presidential election???

Providing a more credible opposition??

**barrk** · Apr 30th, 2001, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by chrisjk
Indie bands? What are they doing in a presidential election???

**simonm** · May 1st, 2001, 06:37 AM

On the news this morning, it is reported that Bush would like to solve the energy crisis in America by building new nuclear power stations and drilling for natural gas on one of America's finest national parks in Alaska.

One great idea after another! President Bush knows how to keep us all entertained doesn't he?

**SurfDemon** · May 1st, 2001, 08:46 AM

Interesting. I never understood the American voting system before, thanks Katie.

Strangely some people in Western Canada want a similar system implemented up here, as the population of Western Canada is a fraction of the East, so effectively the east votes in the government, yet a huge amount of Canada's money comes from the West (Oil & Gas).

I guess no political system has been invented that keeps all of the people happy, or can be considered "fair" to everyone.

SD

**chrisjk** · May 1st, 2001, 09:11 AM

Surely the best voting system is where the majority vote wins. That way, you get to please the most people.

Maybe the east is more heavily populated than the west SD, but why should the people in the east all vote for one person, yet the west vote for another?

**barrk** · May 1st, 2001, 09:13 AM

Because birds of a feather flock together! Like-minded people live near each other. It really is that simple.

**chrisjk** · May 1st, 2001, 09:16 AM

so a large mass of people have no mind of their own? Hmmm. madness.

**barrk** · May 1st, 2001, 09:18 AM

Madness.....yes. but also truth. That's one reason I live in never-never land...so I can think for myself!

**chrisjk** · May 1st, 2001, 09:21 AM

good plan tinkerbell.

**SurfDemon** · May 1st, 2001, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by chrisjk
Surely the best voting system is where the majority vote wins. That way, you get to please the most people.

Maybe the east is more heavily populated than the west SD, but why should the people in the east all vote for one person, yet the west vote for another?

Well, The west of Canada has a very low population. The province I'm in is something like 3 times the size of Britain and only has a population of something like 3-4 million people. Yet they have all the oil. So the Eastern government taxes the oil heavily and uses these taxes to support the economy. When they spend all the money, it's given to the Eastern provinces as subsidies to keep the population happy.

From the politicians point of view there is no point in keeping the Western population happy as they only account for a fraction of the vote. As an example, the Prime Minister on his last election campaign didn't even come within 500km of our city despite the fact that it's one of the richest cities in Canada. Quite simply it doesn't have enough of a population to make a difference and everyone resents him tax our industry to support the east.

Right or Wrong, thats the view from the West. I am sure somebody from Eastern Canada would see it differently, but thats what I mean by their never being a fair political system. I might disagree with it, but I would probably do the same if I was a politician trying to stay in power!

SD

**simonm** · May 1st, 2001, 10:49 AM

All democratic systems are flawed. What ever system you have there are draw backs.

I think we should listen to Plato who said that societies should be autocratic and led by the 'perfect' philosapher.

**Kzin** · May 1st, 2001, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by chrisjk
Surely the best voting system is where the majority vote wins. That way, you get to please the most people.

Well we don't have that in Britain primarily because there is very seldom an outright majority.

**Kzin** · May 1st, 2001, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by barrk
.....I live in never-never land...so I can think for myself!

Do you mean Chit-Chat by some chance?

**barrk** · May 1st, 2001, 12:20 PM

Nope....Never-neverland...to fet there....just take the third star to the left and straight on 'til morning!

**Kzin** · May 1st, 2001, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by simonm
. . . Plato . . who said that societies should be autocratic and led by the 'perfect' philosapher.

well he would say that being a philosopher . .

- - I propose government by VB programmers

contributions of code to run the world welcomed

**chrisjk** · May 1st, 2001, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Kzin
Well we don't have that in Britain primarily because there is very seldom an outright majority.

Yes we do. First past the post is the most-used system. Only recently in european elections have we used proportional represenation.

**Kzin** · May 1st, 2001, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by chrisjk
Yes we do. First past the post is the most-used system. Only recently in european elections have we used proportional represenation.

Chris - you vote for the MP in your constituency - not your party in the election - and the government is drawn from the party with or group with the majority of MPs - not the same where the majority vote wins at all

- as you know we almost always have governments who have received less than 50% of the votes.

. . . and of course some political parties can consistantly get a significant minority vote with disproportionately low representation because of this system

**chrisjk** · May 1st, 2001, 01:36 PM

yes, but 1st past post is how an MP is elected.

**Kzin** · May 1st, 2001, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by chrisjk
yes, but 1st past post is how an MP is elected.

Yup - agreed !

**chrisjk** · May 1st, 2001, 01:41 PM

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