What is too old?

[CoachBarker]

Hello All
I’ve only been a member here for less than a year. I started using the forums while I was doing an internship for my Bachelors degree (Application Software Development) at one of the Big East University. I received my degree in the fall of 2007 from MSC. Since then I have interviewed for roughly 40 positions. A lot of them were entry level positions where I had more than the requirements for the position.

When I entered college I was a 44 year old ex-carpenter recovering from a back injury. I graduated in the top of my class (GPA 3.4). Until I entered college I had no computers skills except surfing the web. Yet when I walk into an interview I get a look of surprise (I will be 50 in November) and most interviews end up being short “Glad to meet you, we will be in touch” type affairs. No interest in my experiences or interest in viewing my portfolio.

Are any of you responsible for hiring new programmers and would you care to comment or offer any tips or ideas that I could use? I am not ready to give up yet, but it is extremely frustrating.

[mendhak]

I have seen 40+ programmers, but it's not very common. Usually, from what I've seen in IT, 40+ people are generally architects or team leaders. So you may still have a long search ahead of you.

[penagate]

Perhaps you're not aiming high enough?

[szlamany]

We have worked with head-hunters to get programmers...

Have you considered letting someone like "Robert Half Technologies"

http://www.roberthalftechnology.com/...002d3ffd0aRCRD

farm you out?

We are in CT and just worked with them to identify potential programmers for a job we might start soon - they handed us people in the $80 to $130 range (I'm sure they keep 40% - but that's still good $$'s).

[CoachBarker]

Right now I am working with 2 "head hunting" firms, one supplied through VESID (a state org. that funded sme of my schooling) and a private firm out of Syracuse, NY. Not all interviews have been entry level, though fresh out of college these are the most prevalent. Some required new languages (with them providing the training); I am more than willing and capable of learnng (4 languages while in school with vb.net being my strongest).

Will look into "Robert Half Technologies". Every lead helps.

[RhinoBull]

...most interviews end up being short “Glad to meet you, we will be in touch” type affairs. No interest in my experiences or interest in viewing my portfolio...

That is the key point here for potential employeers I'm afraid - age and experience come together (in any business but especially in software development).
I don't want to discurage you but you will have to keep trying much harder than some 20 years old kid without the degree.
Over the years I've interviewed many people - young and not so - age was hardly an issue ever.
Even cases when someone forgets some very basic syntax was not taken seriously - it's the experience that always matters, the 7th sense for a that person who may or may not fit into current environment, your confidence, and so on...
Maybe you need to change your strategy, try to remember what was most common mistake you made during the interview.
You may need to ask you head hunter (or some other hr person) for an advise about "What Not to Say at a Job Interview" - one word can make a lot of differences.

However, as already suggested make as many contacts with head hunting agencies as possible, use DICE.com, Moster.com, setup electronic agents with them so you will be getting all openings matching your criteria every day.

Good luck.

edit: link added.

[Clanguage]

Hey CoachBarker,
Let me offer a ray of hope here. I graduated in 2000 at the age of 50. Yeah I am that old. 30 days before graduation I landed my first programming job. Unfortunatly, within 3 months of my starting the application I was going to help write was canned and my position would have become an end user support person. Not a solution to me.
Within 2 weeks I landed a job at Edwards Air Force base in California. I had 4 wonderful years programming among many exotic birds (plane). When my wife and I decided to relocate to North Carolina. I spent roughly a month conversing with potential employers and landed a job which offered relocation help
I think the secret of my success is the fact that I show my love and dedication to programming. Having been a succcessful shop owner for over 19 years also helped due to the fact that HR likes independent people who can think on their feet and make quick decisions.
I think that you should really get in touch with Robert Half also. I took the test and it was a breeze.I scored in the ninetieth percentile with VB.Net. Another place you may want to contact if you are on the East Coast is IGates.
http://www.igate.com/
Good luck and don't give up.

[Hack]

Good luck and don't give up

This is the best advice yet. Perseverance is a quality all potential employees like.

Usually, from what I've seen in IT, 40+ people are generally architects or team leaders. So you may still have a long search ahead of you.

I am extremely proud to say that I have successfully avoided/side stepped all attempts to promote me into any kind of role other than programmer for nearly 30 years and 40 years of age is well, well in my rear view mirror.

[Jenner]

It could also be the opposite end of the spectrum. Companies looking to hire entry level programming positions are looking for the kid fresh out of college who has no job or worldly experience that they know they can pay bottom dollar for and they'll be overjoyed to keep working because they're paranoid about loosing their job and are buried in college debt.

[mendhak]

This is the best advice yet. Perseverance is a quality all potential employees like.I am extremely proud to say that I have successfully avoided/side stepped all attempts to promote me into any kind of role other than programmer for nearly 30 years and 40 years of age is well, well in my rear view mirror.

Then I'm happy for you. I had initially wanted to do that too, but I realized I didn't have the wit to do the sidestepping required. So I'll study and become a technical architect now. It's still good, but it means 70% meetings, 20% design and 10% code.

[homer13j]

I'm over 40 and have plenty of development experience since I got my degree in '99. After looking for work for six friggin' months Robert Half landed me my current job at a pretty good rate. I was beginning to think my age was the issue, but it turns out my city's crappy economy had more to do with it than anything.

Funny thing is I just got a call from a company that passed me over in favor of a kid right out of college that they got for about $20K less than I was asking. He didn't last three months. When they called me back to see if I was still interested I told them yes, if the price was right. I told them it will now take $20K more than what I asked... And they are actually considering it!

Man, that felt good.

Keep looking and call RHI. Good luck.

[techgnome]

THAT is the best kind of revenge you can get...

-tg

[srisa]

I am extremely proud to say that I have successfully avoided/side stepped all attempts to promote me into any kind of role other than programmer for nearly 30 years and 40 years of age is well, well in my rear view mirror.

May I ask why and how?

[Hack]

It is simple...I am a programmer. I don't want to be anything else.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I am a biologist with an MS and a couple decades of experience. Therefore, switching to being a programmer (which I did last year) was a bit daunting. I have zero courses or formal training in anything related to computers. Fortunately, the programing job I was interested in dealt with biological databases, and an intimate knowledge (not too intimate, mind you) of fish biology was more of an asset than a liability. Perhaps you could leverage the knowledge you have from your past career into your new one? Offhand, I can't say where you would look, but surely there are programs related to carpentry, just as there are some related to fish.

[oceanebelle]

It could also be the opposite end of the spectrum. Companies looking to hire entry level programming positions are looking for the kid fresh out of college who has no job or worldly experience that they know they can pay bottom dollar for and they'll be overjoyed to keep working because they're paranoid about loosing their job and are buried in college debt.

This is quite true. I was applying for jobs and several entry level positions (because i want to apply to as many companies as I can), however I was never considered for that. Agencies that call only see my 4+ experience in total which was a mix of several programming languages and management. In one given technology i can barely come up with 1 year total cumulative experience. Agencies were matching me with senior related jobs which I don't want to deal with right now. Luckily I found a job where it's not entry-level but not senior either. Basically Junior software developer in 1 area of programming, the rest I'm sure I can learn.

Basically, it would help if one knows exactly what they want and communicate that to the employers or agencies to find the perfect match!

Also, there are other things to highlight other than development experience like for instance maturity, interpersonal skills, etc. Essentially the soft skills which is very valuable for starters.

[CoachBarker]

Well I thank you all for your advice, comments and personal experiences. Gives me hope that there is something out there. I have gotten in touch with Robert Half and we will see where that leads. The biggest problem I have right now is the inability to relocate, for now I need to stay here in central NY.

Unfortunately I still fall into that trap as the 20 year old with the same degree and experience, I still need a job and I also have a pile of student loans that I will have to soon start paying on. So for now I will still keep looking and interviewing and hope that something pops.

Again thanks for all the advice.

[CoachBarker]

Well we see how things work out, I have an interview next Wednesday with a firm that does Electronic Medical Records. I will put to use the advise I received from you all.

On a side note, my wife had her fortune told about foru weeks ago using tarot cards. The teller told her some things we knew were going to happen and some things to look out for. One was her husband (me) was going to begin a new and exciting career in September. Lets hope she read the cards right.

Everyone have a good weekend.

[penagate]

Best of luck. I am sure you will blow them away.

[RhinoBull]

Best of luck indeed! Go get it and we expect the good news by the end of next week!

[szlamany]

You might want to google the business - find out what they are all about - how large there market is. It's always good when a potential candidate knows about the company they are meeting with.

Also - since it's medical - read up a little on HIPAA - this privacy law impacted us a real lot in regards to our software and also impacts the customers. Silly things like can't have the "monitor" facing a window...

Good luck!

[CoachBarker]

Already been to their site and have a pretty good idea what they do.

Know all about HIPAA , the wife is an RN and knows it all ,also I was health care proxy both of my parents before they passed so I had to deal with HIPAA rules as far as allowing information to be given to no one without my consent.

[Clanguage]

Good luckl to you. I am sure you are going to ace this interview.