Why All the Mac Hating on Here?

[The_Grudge]

The few times I've mentioned Apple computers on these forums I've had the sense that people who use them are frowned upon. Why?

Statements like "only people that can't run a computer need a Mac" are totally inaccurate and reek of ignorance - in my opinion.

I mean, I understand why people say things like that because I was one of the worst offenders just a year ago. But the time came for me to buy a new computer for home and I decided that enough was enough. Instead of spending my evenings tweaking the system I could actually just sit down and USE a computer. I've spent a lot less time "dicking" around and a lot more time enjoying my computer.

When I purchased the Mac I was also concerned that it wouldn't run things that I needed. Actually, the opposite is true. Whenver I've needed a peice of software I've found that not only is it available on the Mac, but it's also BETTER on the Mac.

So what's wrong with wanting to use a fully capable computer without all the BS that comes with a PC?

I'm not trying to start a huge flame-thread. Just want some straight up opinions.

[Hack]

I understand why people say things like that because I was one of the worst offenders just a year ago.

In retrospect, why do you feel that at one time you fit into this category?

[The_Grudge]

My brother owned a Mac and wouldn't shut up about them. He'd say things like "I don't have to worry about viruses" or "have fun with your missing DLL's" and I'd be furious with him claiming that if he knew anything about computers he wouldn't have DLL issues or viruses in the first place. The LAST thing I would have done was buy a Mac.

After fixing all my friends busted PC's though I just wanted a change so I swallowed hard and bought a Mac. Here I am 6 months later and I'm hating the PC way of life more and more each day

Now everyone I know says "I never thought I'd see the day..."

[Hack]

My brother owned a Mac and wouldn't shut up about them.

Yep....in large part, this is one reason why.

Personnelly, I have no opinion on Macs....I neither like them nor dislike them.

Mac owners, on the other hand, are a whole different ball game.

[The_Grudge]

Oh god.

I am coming to a sad realization. Have I become what I once hated? LOL

[Hack]

Sometimes it happens to the best of us.

[Lord Orwell]

Macs are fine. the only real difference in the hardware now-a-days between an equivalent windows system is the Bios. Mac's bios is part of the OS in most versions and ALL versions use open-firmware. It's nice to be able to use a mouse to choose your boot device. Other than that though, my wife's mac-mini has xp professional on it, and i have benchmarked it faster than a full-blown Athalon 64 3ghz system with 256mb video ram. And it takes up almost no counter space at all, especially considering the built-in wireless, bluetooth, network adapter, speakers, and DVD burner. Plus it's almost silent when the fan's running and completely silent when it's not.

[dark_shadow]

"I don't have to worry about viruses"

im not saying you agree with this statement or not but if your brother still feels this way show him this
http://www.macvirus.org/

that shows that theres still viruses for the mac sure not as many as a pc but they are still out there

and as hack said Mac owners are a whole different ball game. some tend to praise there macs as if it was a God ( i work with at least 15 of them that are all like this ) you on the other hand obviously are not this way from what i can tell. and not all of them are but i've seen a fair amount that are and the mac and pc commercials don't help much either i don't think people hate the macs itself more so the stereotype of the owners that cause them to hate the product its like with anything if someone you worked with everyday went around preaching about say a certain cellphone like it was the best cellphone in the world and it was the god of cellphones it would annoy you would it not?

[mendhak]

The promotion of style over substance is a psychological change that manifests itself often in the aforementioned community to a frenzied degree, which is often compounded with the popularity of MS bashing. So while that opinion has been repeated within this thread, other 'hates' may include the less-than-splendid reconfigurability of such machines, or to put that in a better way, it is not suitable for control freaks. Having been born with a silver integrated circuit in my mouth, I have observed that a carpenter blames his tools and a user blames his computer. I work with two Linux boxes, one Mac and one Windows machine, I had only started hating Macs after constant contact with it. It is useful for multimedia work, as I've noticed, but I haven't seen an advantage that it has over Linux or Windows in this regard.

[Greyskull]

To be honest i detested all products of Apple specially with macs becase they seem overpriced compared to the rest.

However, i mite be tempted to get a Mac for the reason being that they are now capable or running XP/Vista natively as well as that router thing (i dont knw the exact name now...) that also has an HD built-in or something.

As for mac viruses, the reason why there aresnt as many around is because the number of users using a Mac is far less than users on windows but ive got a hunch that this mite change if the trend is see here London is that a lot of people buy it purely coz of its looks...any how that is only my own opinion

[I_Love_My_Vans]

VB Forums stands for Visual Basic, a language that was and still currently is aimed directly at Windoz.

However macs are cool.

[Lord Orwell]

if they would come to their senses and license the OS to other vendors, their market share would explode. Think about it also: If they sold it to vendors for $20 a unit, but sold 10 times as more, they are coming ahead.

[The_Grudge]

I just love the idea of everything in one package with my iMac. No tin boxes on the floor, no cables everywhere. I mean sure, ask me in 2 years when I want to upgrade the video card....for now though I just love not having to "maintain" a system. I do enough of that at work.

For work I need and want Windows. For home though, it'll be Mac from here on out.

[Hack]

For home though, it'll be Mac from here on out.

No problem. Just try and not let this happen.

Have I become what I once hated?

[Lord Orwell]

I just love the idea of everything in one package with my iMac. No tin boxes on the floor, no cables everywhere. I mean sure, ask me in 2 years when I want to upgrade the video card....for now though I just love not having to "maintain" a system. I do enough of that at work.

For work I need and want Windows. For home though, it'll be Mac from here on out.

that's my issue with the mac mini. It's got a laptop graphics chipset. Can't be upgraded at all. That's why the wife's got it. She only plays java games or games using quicktime such as Nancy Drew. Not too taxing on the chipset. In fact she's actually hooked on a MUD.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

The few times I've mentioned Apple computers on these forums I've had the sense that people who use them are frowned upon. Why?

Statements like "only people that can't run a computer need a Mac" are totally inaccurate and reek of ignorance - in my opinion.

I mean, I understand why people say things like that because I was one of the worst offenders just a year ago. But the time came for me to buy a new computer for home and I decided that enough was enough. Instead of spending my evenings tweaking the system I could actually just sit down and USE a computer. I've spent a lot less time "dicking" around and a lot more time enjoying my computer.

When I purchased the Mac I was also concerned that it wouldn't run things that I needed. Actually, the opposite is true. Whenver I've needed a peice of software I've found that not only is it available on the Mac, but it's also BETTER on the Mac.

So what's wrong with wanting to use a fully capable computer without all the BS that comes with a PC?

I'm not trying to start a huge flame-thread. Just want some straight up opinions.

I am forced to use a laptop powerbook G4 at work.

(This was a used laptop, I will be getting one later one but just read on)
When I got it the screen lock was broken, ie you can't close the screen it would just pop back up. I did some research and found out that if I did purchase a powerbook that had that problem it's NOT covered under the warranty. Strike 1

My co worker has the same model laptop. Both has a backlight built in, however mine didn't work. Again, I did some research. I installed a supposed 'patch', and it killed the laptop keyboard, but I was able to get back into it using a USB keyboard. Strike 2

Among other research I found out that a possible fix would be having to open the laptop up and press a button on the motherboard to reset some settings. I never did this due to it's not my laptop and I will be getting a new one eventually. Strike 3

You do not need anything special to reset account passwords on a mac. Just the install CD/DVD: see http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106156 Strike 4
(On windows, you have to go out of your way to change passwords, it's not like its built into the install CD).
And why did Apple include that anyways? I have an opinion on that, but PM me if you want it .

There are plenty of nice programs on a mac, that you have to pay for. My laptop actually came with Textwrangler (which is ok). But, when you compare what is available for mac vs applications on windows, it makes mac look pretty useless. Especially when you have programs like paint.net, notepad, notepad++, codeblocks, devcpp, Microsoft Visual Studio, VB6 (or VB .Net for those who like newer technology ), Putty, Excellent SVN support on windows, and games (chess is included on mac, how fun). That is just a small list, and I know there exists some alternatives but those are far and few between. Strike 5

No graphics editing application on a default install that I can find (correct me if I am wrong). Strike 6

Laptops don't support PCMCIA wireless cards natively. Strike 7

Though, finder is pretty useful, it doesn't balance it out.
All Mac is, is just an over priced linux with different graphics and a claim that they have 'geniuses' at the 'genius bar'.

And the overall maturity of a mac owner, which has always been said. Almost every mac owner I know, is usually smuck know-it-all and claim that Mac is better than Windows. Exception are usually those who use other OSes or the older generation.
Well, here is a wake up call. I have used all 3 on a day to day basis and Mac is the only OS I know of where you need 3 hands, and 2-4 fingers just to run a shortcut on the keyboard.

Mac had one chance to wow me, and let me tell you at this point and time, Vista is a better OS than Mac in my opinion.

Speaking from my opinions and experiences only. Take my opinions for what they are worth.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I got to use Macs throughout grad school (I had a smokin' 286-12, which was pretty good at the time, but the college had gotten a deal from Apple, so all the systems there were Mac), and went to work for a guy who had a mac. At the time, I was reading InCider and MacUser magazines (not sure if I have the second one right), along with a variety of PC magazines. Without a doubt, the Apple advertising at the time was the most annoying, innaccurate, misleading, drivel that has ever spewed forth from a company, and that's saying something. I believed that macs had superior hardware and a superior OS, but I had never compared them. After watching my boss struggle with OS 6 (which sucked), then struggle even more with OS 7 (which was truly horrible), and reading the trade journals written by and for mac fanatics, I eventually realized that the mac OS sucked, and everybody was in denial. This realization just preceded the collapse of OS 8 that sent Apple into a temporary tailspin. The trade journals were still composed of a 50:50 mix of articles talking about how vastly superior the mac OS was compared to Windows, and articles explaining how to get your mac OS to actually remain stable for a little while (which basically consisted of the rule: NEVER install anything new or you'll be sorry). The smug superiority was all a smoke screen.

Now, Apple has come out with a good product, and a greatly improved OS, but their advertising is still as charming as before, and their fan base has contracted down to the fanatical core. I heard on the news a few weeks back that a study showed that Apple users tend to be arrogant. I went looking for the study, and found a few links, but I never got to see the actual study, only references to it.

I have no particular opinion about Apple. I don't use one because I have no reason to use one. They offer no advantages to me, and their fan base and advertising have certainly dissuaded me from trying one just for the heck of it.

[Lord Orwell]

I am forced to use a laptop powerbook G4 at work.

(This was a used laptop, I will be getting one later one but just read on)
When I got it the screen lock was broken, ie you can't close the screen it would just pop back up. I did some research and found out that if I did purchase a powerbook that had that problem it's NOT covered under the warranty. Strike 1

My co worker has the same model laptop. Both has a backlight built in, however mine didn't work. Again, I did some research. I installed a supposed 'patch', and it killed the laptop keyboard, but I was able to get back into it using a USB keyboard. Strike 2

Among other research I found out that a possible fix would be having to open the laptop up and press a button on the motherboard to reset some settings. I never did this due to it's not my laptop and I will be getting a new one eventually. Strike 3

You do not need anything special to reset account passwords on a mac. Just the install CD/DVD: see http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106156 Strike 4
(On windows, you have to go out of your way to change passwords, it's not like its built into the install CD).
And why did Apple include that anyways? I have an opinion on that, but PM me if you want it .

There are plenty of nice programs on a mac, that you have to pay for. My laptop actually came with Textwrangler (which is ok). But, when you compare what is available for mac vs applications on windows, it makes mac look pretty useless. Especially when you have programs like paint.net, notepad, notepad++, codeblocks, devcpp, Microsoft Visual Studio, VB6 (or VB .Net for those who like newer technology ), Putty, Excellent SVN support on windows, and games (chess is included on mac, how fun). That is just a small list, and I know there exists some alternatives but those are far and few between. Strike 5

No graphics editing application on a default install that I can find (correct me if I am wrong). Strike 6

Laptops don't support PCMCIA wireless cards natively. Strike 7

Though, finder is pretty useful, it doesn't balance it out.
All Mac is, is just an over priced linux with different graphics and a claim that they have 'geniuses' at the 'genius bar'.

And the overall maturity of a mac owner, which has always been said. Almost every mac owner I know, is usually smuck know-it-all and claim that Mac is better than Windows. Exception are usually those who use other OSes or the older generation.
Well, here is a wake up call. I have used all 3 on a day to day basis and Mac is the only OS I know of where you need 3 hands, and 2-4 fingers just to run a shortcut on the keyboard.

Mac had one chance to wow me, and let me tell you at this point and time, Vista is a better OS than Mac in my opinion.

Speaking from my opinions and experiences only. Take my opinions for what they are worth.

It may not be "built-into windows" directly to reset the password, but you can still bypass it easily with the install disk. Just boot from it and choose "repair install". It resets all user accounts. A new install does the same thing.

In both cases (the pc and the mac), the original account owner is going to know it was changed because you never find out what the old password was. The difference is that on a Mac if you are the owner and you legitimately did forget it, you don't have to spend 3 hours reinstalling the OS and setting up all programs again (at a minimum) to log in. Not only that, but you are still locked out of "keychain" without the OLD password. so anything that was protected is still protected. It is in fact a much better setup than windows. I find it hard to believe that you are citing ease-of-use as a negative for OSX.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

It may not be "built-into windows" directly to reset the password, but you can still bypass it easily with the install disk. Just boot from it and choose "repair install". It resets all user accounts. A new install does the same thing.

In both cases (the pc and the mac), the original account owner is going to know it was changed because you never find out what the old password was. The difference is that on a Mac if you are the owner and you legitimately did forget it, you don't have to spend 3 hours reinstalling the OS and setting up all programs again (at a minimum) to log in.

The repair install sort of defeats the purpose of it all imo, when you reset their password you want access to the box as it is now. Perhaps to implant a keylogger or steal a document. Most importantly not to leave a trace. Trust me, if I walked away and came back and my desktop was what looked like a fresh install...I would question it. But if I came back and couldn't login, I would just take it to [insert your system administrator or local geek shop] to have my password reset and just use it like always. Or if I the said 'hacker' I would just put in a blank password.

Also most Windows XP installs use the NTFS file system, where if the end user was smart enough could encrypt their documents (which if they are really serious about you not accessing their documents, they will know about said feature) and you do a "repair install" like you suggested, there is almost no way to access those files again. Or according to how the NTFS security is supposed to work.

However, this still doesn't change the fact that I can take a mac os install disk to my friends Mac install and change their password very easily. In fact doesn't the CD allow me root access to said box anyways? I am almost sure of this. Though correct me if I am wrong.

[Lord Orwell]

not exactly sure about that, actually. I am sure however that there are plenty of 3rd-party bootable utilities from cd that can recover (not just reset) the xp or vista password. In fact, i could conceivably simply install xp on a flash drive and boot off of it, giving me access to whatever i wish on that system. In this method it would be simple to install a keylogger or another program of my choice. i might not have access to encrypted programs of my choice, but that changes once the keylogger or trojan i installed activates.

Trust me, there are dozens of ways to break into an xp system. Mac osx, not so many. But again, updates need to be done.
The latest version of Open Firmware password protects the boot process, preventing you from actually booting from the dvd in the first place.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

not exactly sure about that, actually. I am sure however that there are plenty of 3rd-party bootable utilities from cd that can recover (not just reset) the xp or vista password. In fact, i could conceivably simply install xp on a flash drive and boot off of it, giving me access to whatever i wish on that system. In this method it would be simple to install a keylogger or another program of my choice. i might not have access to encrypted programs of my choice, but that changes once the keylogger or trojan i installed activates.

Trust me, there are dozens of ways to break into an xp system. Mac osx, not so many. But again, updates need to be done.
The latest version of Open Firmware password protects the boot process, preventing you from actually booting from the dvd in the first place.

I agree you could put the program on the machine, but you can't 'install' it. As you really don't have access to the host's registry. Though you could probably through it in the startup start menu, or some other file. Or you could use the explorer feature (bug?) regarding the search path.

"There are dozens of ways to break into an xp system?" Are you talking from an offline stand point or online? If your talking about an online standpoint, then I would have to disagree with you. Offline, there are options like bartpe, or even linux could probably mount the drive and read it.
And password protecting the mac. Sure, the option is there. But A. I don't know of one person who has that enabled. B. My college doesn't even use that and C. How many people do you know actually bios protect their desktops/laptops.

Which reminds me...I should probably do that to mine....

[Lord Orwell]

i do. If you want your system to be secure, you need to set boot device to hard drive only and password protect bios. Otherwise i could boot your system to a flash drive and reset the bios. But then again windows systems have a jumper on them easily accessible that bypasses the bios password. Mac doesn't have this "feature". It's because of this jumper that a windows system can never really be made secure from a local user. As tech support, i have personally broken into three systems people thought secure but forgot their bios passwords.

[drivenbywhat]

Well, it seems that most of the bashing has stopped by now but since I took the time to read these posts, I'll add to it, .

If Macs didn't have any problems, why would there be a site called www.macfixit.com? I'm sure there are more sites for mac support than just that one.

Also, as far as virii, mac doesn't have nearly as many but it still is prone to a virus. You just have to remember one thing. People who write malicious programs do it because they are malicious and want to cause a lot of damage. They don't waste their time coding a virus for mac, linux and any other OS because their market share is small and defeats the purpose of causing mass damage. It's the same reason why most programmers spend their time coding for Windows since it has a dominant market share over other OSes.

[Lord Orwell]

i had to post a question on macfixit.com once. But it's because i am a noob mac user. I had bootcamp running, and i did an update to parallels desktop and it destroyed the boot.ini file in the windows partition. But i didn't know how to force it to boot back into OSX (using a windows keyboard, simply hold down the alt key) and i didn't know how to eject the cd in the drive so i could boot from an xp disk (hold down left mouse button). Stuff that was probably in the manual but i got it used so didn't have it. Naturally no one answered the question.

[Hack]

They don't waste their time coding a virus for mac, linux and any other OS because their market share is small and defeats the purpose of causing mass damage.

Actually, this is one of the more compelling reasons I've ever heard for getting a MAC (not that I have any intention of doing so of course. )

[drivenbywhat]

@ Hack - yes, it's a reason to make the switch to the Mac but really, most knowledgeable Windows users know better than to be downloading files from warez sites or allowing scripts to run from sites that aren't reputable. I don't even use antivirus programs because I don't download stuff from just anywhere. I'm not part of any bitTorrent peer to peer programs of that sort and other stuff that can cause damage to your pc. Heck, I run an online scanner from the big antivirus programs every few months to see if I've actually been infected but I'm still clean.

Also, as Macs get more market share, there will undoubtedly be more virii for it. It's like FireFox. It had no "obvious" security holes when it came out but as soon as more people were using it, you noticed more security flaws being patched because the hackers were now willing to take the time to find FireFox exploits.

Windows forever,

@ Lord Orwell - um, you didn't know how to eject a CD? Doesn't a Mac cd-rom have a button to eject its cd?

[Lord Orwell]

@ Lord Orwell - um, you didn't know how to eject a CD? Doesn't a Mac cd-rom have a button to eject its cd?

You've obviously never seen a mac mini. It has one button. The power button. The keyboards that macs use actually have an eject button on them, but since we were going to be running XP on it, it's got a microsoft keyboard.

[dclamp]

Mac minis are also good for Mac-o-Lanterns