Time Display in Taskbar

[dbasnett]

Twice a day the time in the taskbar is displayed incorrectly. My computer has the same problem as the person who posted this.

12:00 AM -- 0000 hrs
1:00 AM -- 0100 hrs
2:00 AM -- 0200 hrs
3:00 AM -- 0300 hrs
4:00 AM -- 0400 hrs
5:00 AM -- 0500 hrs
6:00 AM -- 0600 hrs
7:00 AM -- 0700 hrs
8:00 AM -- 0800 hrs
9:00 AM -- 0900 hrs
10:00 AM -- 1000 hrs
11:00 AM -- 1100 hrs
12:00 PM -- 1200 hrs
1:00 PM -- 1300 hrs
2:00 PM -- 1400 hrs
3:00 PM -- 1500 hrs
4:00 PM -- 1600 hrs
5:00 PM -- 1700 hrs
6:00 PM -- 1800 hrs
7:00 PM -- 1900 hrs
8:00 PM -- 2000 hrs
9:00 PM -- 2100 hrs
10:00 PM -- 2200 hrs
11:00 PM -- 2300 hrs

[si_the_geek]

I can't see what the problem is, can you elaborate?

[mendhak]

I went through that list once, then I went through it again, very slowly. To see if I was missing something.

You're not expecting 12:00 AM to show up as 1200 are you? or 2400?

[dbasnett]

I expect the time to be displayed correctly.

12:00:00 Noon
12:00:00 Midnight

Google this

noon midnight PM AM

and you will see.

Dim TestTime As DateTime
TestTime = Convert.ToDateTime("12:00:00")
Dim TestString As String = FormatDateTime(TestTime, DateFormat.LongTime)
Debug.WriteLine(TestString & " <<--Error")

[si_the_geek]

So you are saying that at exactly 00:00:00 you want no AM (but do 1 second later), and at 12:00:00 you want no PM (but again, do 1 second later)?

While it is technically irrelevant/incorrect to use AM/PM at those precise moments, surely it is better to have the clarity?

[dbasnett]

That is my point, it isn't clear at all. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

"The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (Fourth Edition, 2000) has a similar usage note on this topic: "Strictly speaking, 12 a.m. denotes midnight, and 12 p.m. denotes noon, but there is sufficient confusion over these uses to make it advisable to use 12 noon and 12 midnight where clarity is required."[9]

However, the use of "12:00 a.m." for midnight and "12:00 p.m." for noon is contrary to the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual[10] which recommends the opposite: "12 p.m." for midnight and "12 a.m." (formerly "12 m.") for noon."

It has always confused me(I did win a $5 bet once because of it). It is just wrong. There is some on-street parking here with a No Parking time limit. It says 12PM - 5PM. I park there all the time.

[si_the_geek]

It is only noon or midnight for a single second (or less if you use milliseconds etc), so I don't really see the need for concern - immediately after noon (ie: 12:00:01) it is PM, and immediately after midnight (ie: 00:00:01) it is AM.

As the display is updated regularly, using the (technically correct) words midnight/noon would mean that those words would only show for a second before switching to AM/PM - which would be much more annoying than the minor (and extremely brief) inaccuracy you are concerned with.


I've never previously heard of any organisation recommending/using "12 p.m. for midnight" etc, which to me represents intentional confusion - as it will suddenly switch AM/PM while keeping the same hour (1 second past their 12 PM is 12:00:01 AM ).

[dbasnett]

You are making the assumption that 12PM and 12AM have a certain meaning to everyone, and that is an incorrect assumption.

If you had Googled what I suggested you'd see the point. You may choose not to believe this, but when someone says to me 12PM or 12AM I always get clarification.

a couple of results from google

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm

http://www.astronomy.net/articles/13/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour...n_and_midnight

[si_the_geek]

I did google what you suggested, but unsurprisingly did not read every page that came up in the results.

From a quick scan, they pointed out what I expected - that technically it is wrong to use AM/PM at those precise moments, but it isn't wrong a second (or even a fraction of a second) later.

There is a common interpretation of what 12PM means (a second before 12:00:01 PM, thus noon), but I have met a few people who didn't think of it that way (they were unsure, as opposed to thinking it should mean midnight). Asking for clarification is perfectly understandable, and isn't unusual.


So, back to your actual issue: How do you want the display to work? Do you want it to show noon/midnight for a single second before switching to AM/PM?

[visualAd]

So, for 2 seconds every day you get confused. I assume that you live in a closed box with no light and therefore no indication of day or night. I also assume that you only ever happen to look at your clock at 12:00AM and 12:00PM.

I am sorry, I cannot see any other reason why this would be confusing. Most people are asleep at 00:00. I suggest you do the same, so next time you look at your clock and it says 12:00PM you know it is noon.

[OrdinaryFrog]

well might i suggest creating a petition to Microsoft to resolve this issue?

[dbasnett]

I brought it up, because the discussion in another thread about 002 made me think of it again. I thought if we could have a discussion about whther 002 was a number or not we could discuss this.

Sure, I think it should be fixed, not so much for that flashing instant, but how about calendars, or for appointments, stuff like that.

Somewhere I said I use military time and don't worry about it, because so many people just accept it.

Who really cares if 002 is a number or whether 12AM / 12PM mean something.

And visual, do you always ASSUME that when you don't have an issue with something that means the other person should be attacked. Do you even understand the issue. It is only not important here because we are discussing it on a forum.

Do airlines, trains, military, power generation, telecommunications, stock market, etc use a time system with 12AM / 12PM. Did they maybe think it was confusing. Maybe they just live in the same box I do. I know when I worked at NASA we thought it was OK to be wrong twice a day.



Sorry that I thought it might be fun to discuss this here, it isn't. I'm done.

[RhinoBull]

... but when someone says to me 12PM or 12AM I always get clarification.

Although I personally prefer 24 hr clock (miltary as you said) I find your statement quite amusing. Sorry.

[visualAd]

And visual, do you always ASSUME that when you don't have an issue with something that means the other person should be attacked. Do you even understand the issue. It is only not important here because we are discussing it on a forum.

Do airlines, trains, military, power generation, telecommunications, stock market, etc use a time system with 12AM / 12PM. Did they maybe think it was confusing. Maybe they just live in the same box I do. I know when I worked at NASA we thought it was OK to be wrong twice a day.



Sorry that I thought it might be fun to discuss this here, it isn't. I'm done.

I'm not disputing that it could be an issue but the 24 hour format exists for that reason. I am not trying to attack you ... I just don't really see why we are discussing it My reply was meant to be light hearted but I am sorry if you are offended by it.

[Lord Orwell]

I have this issue at work. So whenever i have to put an expiration date on something that expires at either noon or midnight i add a minute.

[nbrege]

I expect the time to be displayed correctly.

12:00:00 Noon
12:00:00 Midnight

Isn't it redundant to say 12 Noon or 12 Midnight? Wouldn't Noon or Midnight alone be clear enough? It's not like there's an 11 Noon. At least not where I come from...

[mendhak]

Because the built in strings, I imagine, don't handle anything aside from "PM" or "AM", perhaps the clock ought to stop at 1159 AM and PM for two minutes rather than one, so that the next 'minute' becomes 1201. This can circumvent the 12 noon and 12 midnight problem.

[RhinoBull]

I have this issue at work. So whenever i have to put an expiration date on something that expires at either noon or midnight i add a minute.

Why?

[Lord Orwell]

Why?

for this exact reason. If i put 12am some idiot will discard the product at noon.

[nbrege]

This makes no sense to me. How is 12:01am any more clear than 12:00am

[Lord Orwell]

obviously you think 12am and 12pm is clear. not everyone does. If they did, you wouldn't have the need to say "twelve noon" or "twelve midnight". Almost everyone you say 12pm to thinks midnight automatically even though it's actually noon.

[nbrege]

But your logic makes no sense. If some idiot (as you put it) thinks 12:00AM is noon, then wouldn't they think that 12:01AM is 1 minute past noon?

[Lord Orwell]

It's got nothing to do with my logic. It's the problem with the brains of everyone else. Oddly they rarely think 12am is noon but almost always think 12pm is midnight. Yet they know when 11:59 is. the issue seems to be a twist on the argument on when the millennium ended. 2000 or 2001? But the next minute isn't in question. But don't take my word for it please. Do a random sampling and ask people "how many hours is it to 12pm?"
(edited for correction)

[visualAd]

Any time is a measure of inaccuracy.

[dbasnett]

OK, si?

"dbasnett is referring to the fact that while there is a common understanding of what 12:00:00 AM means, to be extremely picky it is technically not valid..." I prefer technicians to be extremely picky.

I pointed out something that in my view, and a lot of other people, is incorrect usage. Not only is it incorrect, there is no agreement about which incorrect usage is the most correct. If we surveyed a few billion Chinese their opinion might be different about who should win the correct incorrect usage contest.

In clock applications everyone is right, it only happens twice a day for a brief moment. My calendar is wrong everytime I look at it, all the time.

Bottom line is, I use military time.

I posted the 'error' as a bug at MSDN, which as expected they have ignored. I did notice that if you google noon midnigt am pm
the MSDN threads are getting some air time...

[RhinoBull]

for this exact reason. If i put 12am some idiot will discard the product at noon.

This makes no sense to me. How is 12:01am any more clear than 12:00am

I will second NB's concern: how is 12:00 (am/pm) clearer than 12:01 (am/pm) ???
Sorry but it just doesn't make any sense.

[si_the_geek]

OK, si? ...

In the countries I tend to be involved with in some way (all European or North American), 12 AM is taken to mean midnight - although there are always some people who get confused, but they tend to ask for clarification (and I personally tend to specify anyway).

The cultures of oriental countries is significantly different, and as such is irrelevant to the settings on your/my computer - but we should of course be mindful of their culture and interpretations when dealing with people from those countries (not just time related, but things like colours too), just as they are with ours (my clock is made in China, but it shows AM/PM in the same way as my computer).

[dbasnett]

I will second NB's concern: how is 12:00 (am/pm) clearer than 12:01 (am/pm) ???
Sorry but it just doesn't make any sense.

When is 12:00 AM in china? 12:01 AM? You are assuming something.

[Lord Orwell]

actually i misspoke. I usually take a minute off so it expires at 11:59. I am not actually allowed to ADD a minute because that would put expiration one minute longer than it actually is and evidently food could spoil in one minute. But taking one minute off is ok. Everyone in the entire world knows when 11:59pm is. But they don't all know when 12am is.

That's the last time i answer a post when i am out of coffee....