VB6 App For Vista Use

[Bob334]

Hi,

I have basically TWO questions:

1) Can someone walk me through the *changes* required when using my PDW in VB6. So what I would like are the STEPS involved + the *changes* to those steps if any to get my VB6 app ready for Vista.

2) Can someone explain the *SAME THING* as in one, only using another 3rd Party app - I would like to see the differences between the TWO.

Thankyou. Please describe each step, as I am not as in tune with all of this at the same level as you guys are. Your expert HELP is really appreciated here.

Thanks
Bob334

[Kasracer]

1. No. There are no simple changes that we can just say "Enable X, Disable Y, Add K and you're done". Vista uses a better security model than XP. If you're doing something in XP that you shouldn't be doing, Vista will catch it and it won't work properly.

Just stay away from constantly modifying files an administrator only has access to. You shouldn't be doing it in XP or Vista.

2. No clue what you're asking for. You want a 3rd party tool to fix your bad programming habbits to make it work on Vista?

[Bob334]

Sorry to make things sound so difficult:

If I'm using my PDW the following are the Steps I would *normally* go through. What I am asking is: What *changes* do I make in EACH step to make it Vista compatible???

Step #1: Select Vb6 Project - and press PACKAGE to start the process.

Step #2: Choose a script for the package.

Step #3: Choose the type of package - Here we can choose a) Standard or Dependency File: I usually use *standard*.

Step #4: Files created or included in Package. Here is what I am asking: Which should be UNCHECKED, all of them?? Should any by ADDED here???? If so, I press the ADD button, but where do I browse to find added files, and what files should be added????

Step #5: Make a Single Cab, or Multiple Cabs: I generally make a Single cab.

Step #6: Installation Title.

Step #7: Determine the start menu. Any changes here?? If so what. How do I institute *Run As Administrator* into my setup??? Where and HOW is this done??

Step #8: Determine the start menu. Same comment as in #7??

Step #9: Modify location of files to install. For example If I remove all the FILES in Step #5, since these are packaged with VISTA, I assume, What do I do here???? Do I add anything to Step #5??

Step #10:Install as Shared files or not. Generally it isn't shared for my app.

Step #11: Script Name - Then PRESS FINISH. SETUP.EXE + Cab the support are created. Will these NOW be OK for VISTA? If NOT what changes do I make?????


I hope this is a little *clearer* to understand. Will my app be able to invoke the PRINT function in Vista, or will this be a problem......

So, I would be grateful for a favor and ask what I can do with my PDW NOW in order to have my app work in Vista, without purchasing a third party app. Can someone help me with this????

Thank You,
Bob 334

[si_the_geek]

General issues which are nothing to do with Vista:

Step #3: a dependency file is not an installation package, so should not be used unless you know what a dependency file is, and know you want to make one.

Step #4: If files are already installed, your setup package will ask the user if they want to overwrite them - and if you are trying to install older versions (as you would be on Vista), it will warn not to do it.

Step #5: do you want to put your package onto multiple floppy disks? if not, choose Single.

Issues which can cause problems on Vista (and XP/2000 for non-admin users), but aren't just about the installation (your program may need changes too):

Step #9: Your program files (.exe files etc) should be in the Program folder. Your data files (.txt etc) should be in the AppData folder (for all users to share the same file) or the User_AppData folder (for each user to have their own copy).

I'm not entirely sure, but *Run As Administrator* should automatically be enforced (if the user isn't an Admin, they should get a message saying they need an Admin to install it).


Like many people I don't use P&DW, this is because it is old and has limited functionality. Equivalent programs (see the FAQ at the top of this forum) are often free, and are generally much more up to date, and/or offer more features.


After that, your program should be safely installed... whether the program runs properly or not depends on your code. For advice on what causes problems, see the Vista article in our Classic VB FAQs (in the FAQ forum, which is shown near the top of our home page)

[Bob334]

General issues which are nothing to do with Vista:
Step #3: a dependency file is not an installation package, so should not be used unless you know what a dependency file is, and know you want to make one.

Yes, Thank for that. I use Standard Files

Step #4: If files are already installed, your setup package will ask the user if they want to overwrite them - and if you are trying to install older versions (as you would be on Vista), it will warn not to do it.

I'm working on an XP system now. Should I include these files, or not - meaning the 20, or so that show up as checked already, or do I UNCHECK them all, as I was under the impression Vista had them alreday??

Step #5: do you want to put your package onto multiple floppy disks? if not, choose Single.
Issues which can cause problems on Vista (and XP/2000 for non-admin users), but aren't just about the installation (your program may need changes too):

I generally make a Single Cab file. This will be OK in Vista?



Step #9: Your program files (.exe files etc) should be in the Program folder. Your data files (.txt etc) should be in the AppData folder (for all users to share the same file) or the User_AppData folder (for each user to have their own copy).

I assume your talking about the files that are *generated* by this packaging process, correct??



I'm not entirely sure, but *Run As Administrator* should automatically be enforced (if the user isn't an Admin, they should get a message saying they need an Admin to install it).

So basically, If required and done by an Administrator, then THESE STEPS - Assuming Step #4 files are all removed? - Should RUN OK on Vista??


Like many people I don't use P&DW, this is because it is old and has limited functionality. Equivalent programs (see the FAQ at the top of this forum) are often free, and are generally much more up to date, and/or offer more features.

What other would you suggest. Would you kindly brief me on the steps involved with that, so I can make a crude comparison? Thank you..

After that, your program should be safely installed... whether the program runs properly or not depends on your code.

Of Course this makes sense......


For advice on what causes problems, see the Vista article in our Classic VB FAQs (in the FAQ forum, which is shown near the top of our home page)

But, generally, ASSUMING my code is OK this should work OK in Vista??. Thank you very kindly. I look forward to comments for your confirmation of aditional concerns. Thank you so much......

[si_the_geek]

I'm working on an XP system now. Should I include these files, or not - meaning the 20, or so that show up as checked already, or do I UNCHECK them all, as I was under the impression Vista had them alreday??

Leave them in.. If it the files are installed already, it will ask the user if they want to overwrite, and warn them not to.

With P&DW, this is the best you get (other installers allow you to not even show the message, and simply skip those files).

Step #5: do you want to put your package onto multiple floppy disks? if not, choose Single.
I generally make a Single Cab file. This will be OK in Vista?

It is completely irrelevant to Vista.. using 'multiple' only means that you need to use multiple floppy disks, rather than a single CD/download/etc.

Step #9: Your program files (.exe files etc) should be in the Program folder. Your data files (.txt etc) should be in the AppData folder (for all users to share the same file) or the User_AppData folder (for each user to have their own copy).

I assume your talking about the files that are *generated* by this packaging process, correct??

No, I meant your program, and the data files you are intentionally including with it.

Any data files your program uses (such as .txt files or .mdb files) should be in the appropriate Data folder, and not in the Program folder.

Any data files that you are including in your installation package should be installed directly to the appropriate Data folder.

So basically, If required and done by an Administrator, then THESE STEPS - Assuming Step #4 files are all removed? - Should RUN OK on Vista??

An installation needs Admin rights, so an Admin needs to run it.

If you set the package up properly, it will install your program.

What other would you suggest. Would you kindly brief me on the steps involved with that, so I can make a crude comparison? Thank you..

There are pro's and con's for each, but the recommended alternatives (and documentation for them) are linked from the FAQ at the top of this forum.

But, generally, ASSUMING my code is OK this should work OK in Vista??.

Well that depends on your definition of "OK".

Most people assume that "it worked on XP/2000 when I had admin rights" means that the code is OK, when in fact the requirement is that "it worked when I ran it as a limited user", and some extra issues (but not that many more).

Unfortunately there was never any serious enforcement of this before Vista, which means that lots of people are finding problems (which in most cases, they were specifically advised against before).

If you have followed proper guidelines, you should not find any problems.. but it is hard to be sure, so it is a good idea to test the various parts of your program on Vista.

[randem]

Note: Installing your app and data in the proper locations is useless unless your code accesses the data from those same locations.

It is a two part operation. Two very separate parts...

[si_the_geek]

BTW: What is up with the Gestapo Mods removing my signature all the time. What law was broken this time????

Only my signatures are removed and they linked to nowhere...

Your signature was originally removed because it contained advertising links (which as you well know, is against the site rules).

I don't know who removed your replacement signature, and am not sure why either - I can only assume that offence was taken about what was said in it. From what I remember you implied that you are being treated unfairly, which is not the case - we stop everyone (even ourselves) from advertising.


edit: as you have deleted the post I replied to (which didn't belong here - it should have been posted in the Forum Feedback forum), this post now looks odd!

[randem]

Yeah, Advertising fine. But it wasn't even close and had no links to anything.

You're right, I deleted the post because it did not belong here...

[si_the_geek]

I didn't say the replacement signature you created had advertising - I said that it contained something which was presumably considered offensive, or perhaps a violation this rule:

You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Without knowing who deleted it, we can't be sure.

You should have been told that it was removed (and why) by the person who did it, so on behalf of the moderating team I apologise for that not happening.

[randem]

Thanks.

[Bob334]

Randem,

Can you explain in *detail* what you mean. Please do this with reference to the steps I layed out.............. If this process is not considered correct by you.... Can you please where it is in error and WHY??

Thank you Randem,
Bob334

[randem]

1 - The process is error prone to begin with involving several different technologies of which PDW will not work within.

2 - What you want to similarly accomplish can only be done from the users computer by a program running on the users computer. Otherwise virus makers would have a field day on the users computers when they just visit a website.

3 - You want a web based install so you need to program with a web interface to download your setup and run it.

[dilettante]

Most of the developer documents relating to Vista were released back during the beta and release candidate days. The contents of these can be found scattered around the MSDN web site as well, but they aren't as easy to browse that way.

If you go to Dev Readiness - Files you can still find most of the important documents, papers, and presentations on developing for Vista. However almost none of this is written specifically with the VB6 programmer (or even the .Net programmer) in mind. The material is fairly generic/agnostic regarding development tools.

Don't forget to open the treeview at the left of that page under "Jumpstart Toolkit." You may want to grab these files before they all disappear, as many already have!

[randem]

I have written several articles about Vista Compliance mainly for VB6 users but you will have to search the internet for them...

[Bob334]

1 - The process is error prone to begin with involving several different technologies of which PDW will not work within.

Can you please *explain* in detail EXACTLY what is error prone -specifically. Please explain WHY each is error prone. A simple statement like this doesn't help me much....



2 - What you want to similarly accomplish can only be done from the users computer by a program running on the users computer. Otherwise virus makers would have a field day on the users computers when they just visit a website.

What *specifically* are you refering to here? Are you saying I have to install my App on every users computer myself?? Please explain this in more detail Randem. Are you referring to my other posting, or this one, or both???



3 - You want a web based install so you need to program with a web interface to download your setup and run it.


So it seems you are referring here to my other posting? What do you suggest here Randem? Why can I not do it as I outlined in the other posting? You made a remark, I believe *In the fashion you want to do it, No*. How does this type of statement help me? Can you explain in *detail* what I can do to solve this problem and HOW? This would be helpful and beneficial. So I look forward to your very kind solution. Thank you Randem. Your vast experience is greatly appreciated

[Bob334]

I have written several articles about Vista Compliance mainly for VB6 users but you will have to search the internet for them...

Thank you very kindly for this insight Randem. I am grateful for your vast help here. It seems that you have the knowledge and are not seeming to want to help me?? I'm sorry if my problem is too difficult for you. I thought this forum was to obtain help. It has been my experience with professionals that have written papers, that they are *more than willing* to lend a hand and help. That's OK Randem, you don't have to do anything like that for me. Thank you for letting me know about your *several articles*, it's too bad that you could not seem to relate anything that will get me closer to my solution. Thanks again for your kind help.

[randem]

In order to simulate what you want to do you would need to create and ActiveX dll that the user will allow to be downloaded and installed on there machine. I believe this is browser technology which I have never used.

This ActiveX dll will I believe (Not sure exactly how this work) become like an add on to the browser that can be used to download and install your application just like Microsofts Windows Update does.

But asking a user to open up his computer like this from an untrusted source...

[randem]

Sorry, I am not allowed to direct you to more detailed help...

[Bob334]

Most of the developer documents relating to Vista were released back during the beta and release candidate days. The contents of these can be found scattered around the MSDN web site as well, but they aren't as easy to browse that way.

Thank you. I have read some of these.

If you go to Dev Readiness - Files you can still find most of the important documents, papers, and presentations on developing for Vista. However almost none of this is written specifically with the VB6 programmer (or even the .Net programmer) in mind. The material is fairly generic/agnostic regarding development tools.

Yes, I do seem to agree from the few I've seen.

Don't forget to open the treeview at the left of that page under "Jumpstart Toolkit." You may want to grab these files before they all disappear, as many already have!

Thanks for this suggestion......

[Bob334]

In order to simulate what you want to do you would need to create and ActiveX dll that the user will allow to be downloaded and installed on there machine. I believe this is browser technology which I have never used.


Thanks Randem. If you've never used it, then how can I be sure what it will do?


This ActiveX dll will I believe (Not sure exactly how this work) become like an add on to the browser that can be used to download and install your application just like Microsofts Windows Update does.

If your not exactly sure of HOW it works, then I don't see how this helps me??? Thank you for the suggestions you've never tried. I don't have time to try them out. Thanks anyways.....

[randem]

Some of us do not actually have to use something to know how it may work. Year of experience goes to educated guesses when all the fact are not present.

[Bob334]

Some of us do not actually have to use something to know how it may work. Year of experience goes to educated guesses when all the fact are not present.

Yes, I understand that what you may believe actually justifies your making a statement like this. Lets think of it this way......Would you hire someone to work on a very expensive process, who made a statement like this? This would be a buyer beware scenario would it not? The point you make here is well taken, if this was a medical problem, as medicine is more of an ART rather than a science, etc.... But in *engineering*, or the *applied sciences* this type of statement could never be made by a competent and ethical application to a problem, since public safety, or public $$$ loss could not be tolerated. You speak of *educated guesses* and I understand your point, but ask around in the *engineering* community what this really means. Making a simple statement is *easy* in this forum, isn't it. Many people come here and *expect* a good solution based on a *scientific method* [within reason of course and the parameters of the problem]. I'm sorry Randem, perhaps you are just not able to understand my point. That is OK. You are very entitled to your opinion. Hopefully your next client will hire you on a large project with *an educated guess* and a *year* of experience [which may or may not reflect a professional and safe approach to a problem.

[si_the_geek]

Randem has far more than a single year of experience - that was simply a typo and should have been years (note that his 'join date' is 6 years ago, and I'm fairly certain he has been helping with installation issues for most of that time).

While he may not have done exactly what he recommended, he has enough knowledge in the area that his 'educated guess' is likely to be very accurate.


To compare it to an engineering project, say building a particular kind of suspension bridge.. would you employ somebody who has been in charge of various kinds of suspension bridge projects for 20+ years (but not necessarily the kind you want), or somebody who has little/no experience but knows about the kind of bridge you want?

Obviously the best choice would be somebody who has both experience and specific knowledge, but if that option isn't available I would go for the person with experience every time - as they know what issues to look out for (and how to make it safe) and can learn the style of bridge quickly, while the other person cannot 'learn' experience in a reasonable time.


Oh, and please use the Quote tags (either use the button, or type them in, eg: [quote] quoted text here [/quote] ), as the style of your posts makes them hard to read.

[Bob334]

Randem has far more than a single year of experience - that was simply a typo and should have been years (note that his 'join date' is 6 years ago, and I'm fairly certain he has been helping with installation issues for most of that time).

Yes, I most certainly believe that Randem has these years of experience. I did notice his join date and fully respect his time involved in this forum.

While he may not have done exactly what he recommended, he has enough knowledge in the area that his 'educated guess' is likely to be very accurate.

No he didn’t did he? He tends to make comments that are not very helpful and that’s OK. My comments are based more on professionalism and ethics when one claims to be an Installation Specialist. I’m sure he is everything he claims to be, but it seems funny his answers don’t seem to reflect the rigor one would normally expect with a title of this nature. The responses of many professionals with 6 years of relevant experience and a comparable academic background would certainly reflect this in the responses would they not?


To compare it to an engineering project, say building a particular kind of suspension bridge.. would you employ somebody who has been in charge of various kinds of suspension bridge projects for 20+ years (but not necessarily the kind you want), or somebody who has little/no experience but knows about the kind of bridge you want?

First of all the scenario you are presenting here does not really make much sense. Let me try to explain. Here you are talking about a structural engineer – an individual that requires a License to practice as a Professional Engineer in the state or province in question. This individual build bridges, or structures that MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN BUILT BEFORE. This is his task, and the definition of engineering. This individual has a Code of Ethics and has a mathematical acuity that will allow him to solve highly complex problems and PROVE them in a court of law. So someone with little, or no experience would NEVER be involved in the type of project you are suggesting. So this person can know everything about this bridge, as you say , but can NEVER be part of this design by Law, Code and Statute. That is quite different from what we are dealing with here. Randem is no where in this league [I assume], since he does not require a License to do what he claims as an Installation Specialist. Titles are great, but in the scenario you presented they mean something by Law, Code and Statute. I don’t believe we have the same case here.


Obviously the best choice would be somebody who has both experience and specific knowledge, but if that option isn't available I would go for the person with experience every time - as they know what issues to look out for (and how to make it safe) and can learn the style of bridge quickly, while the other person cannot 'learn' experience in a reasonable time.

Well if you did, based on what I stated above and reflecting on the problem with the bridge above, unfortunately you would be wrong. Firstly because you would be in violation of the Laws, Codes and Statutes. Secondly, everything seems OK until someone is killed, hurt, or if large sums of $$$ are lost. Then you will be liable for your choice. Also how do you gauge that ones experience is relevant. It certainly is possible to do the same job incorrectly, over and over again. The proof of this is in the courts, where contractors of all kinds, simply change company names and move on. So I submit, that experience, as you put it is NOT really a measure of one competence. Especially NOT in the case you presented above. Now in this forum, this is quite different isn’t it? Here we rely on the solution, but can litigate an incorrect response when damage is done, can we? Simply because we generally realize the parameter of the problem may not be totally understood, therefore the probability that a typical solution is entirely correct is small. So one can claim that damages are not based entirely on that solution. BUT here Randem, as an Installation Specialist [ self appointed, or regulated?], is the part that gives the End User a reasonable expectation of professionalism and ethics. This is my concern only.

Oh, and please use the Quote tags (either use the button, or type them in, eg:

quoted text here

), as the style of your posts makes them hard to read.

Yes, thank you. I have tried on six different occasions?? What happens is I try to submit my quote and the system asks me log in. I do again and try to submit it, then this happens again. So please excuse me for doing this way.
__________________

[si_the_geek]

No he didn’t did he? He tends to make comments that are not very helpful and that’s OK. ...

As with anyone who helps on the forums, his time is voluntary - and not surprisingly, he isn't going to spend huge amounts of time helping someone (who will probably never do anything for him) when a push in the right direction should be enough for them to work it out themselves.

If you were actually paying him for his time, I'm sure he would be much more vigorous. The same goes for me too, as well as many others who post on forums.

His comments are sometimes not as clear as they should be, but even so they are generally good advice - and are usually enough to for you to look things up yourself.

No matter what advice is given, you cannot expect unpaid people (who you don't even know) to put in huge amounts of effort for you, and write out absolutely everything - we are here to help you do it yourself, not to explain in detail the "how" and "why" for every single step you need to do.

First of all the scenario you are presenting here does not really make much sense. Let me try to explain. Here you are talking about ...

I am aware that there are extra regulations there, but even with that people still need to have a first (and second, and third) project - people aren't born with that experience.

It should be obvious that I meant keeping within regulations.

So I submit, that experience, as you put it is NOT really a measure of one competence. ...

In a way that is true - you need to take into account not just the quantity of experience, but also the quality.

For installations, randem has both - he is just missing exact experience of a specific area, but has enough related knowledge to give accurate advice.

Oh, and please use the Quote tags (either use the button, or type them in, eg:

quoted text here

), as the style of your posts makes them hard to read.

Yes, thank you. I have tried on six different occasions?? What happens is I try to submit my quote and the system asks me log in. I do again and try to submit it, then this happens again. So please excuse me for doing this way.

I don't know why that problem is occurring, but look at your post, and think about what you have been doing instead.. you have proved that you can easily work around it.

It takes the same amount of effort to use quote tags as you are putting in to use the bold tags (if you are using the 'buttons' above the edit area, there is a quote button too).

[Bob334]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob334No he didn’t did he? He tends to make comments that are not very helpful and that’s OK. ...
As with anyone who helps on the forums, his time is voluntary - and not surprisingly, he isn't going to spend huge amounts of time helping someone (who will probably never do anything for him) when a push in the right direction should be enough for them to work it out themselves.

Yes, I certainly understand this completely. I we are helping others to gain a return for ourselves, then the premise for this forum seems a little awkward. Would this not a conflict of interest? And it seems that time spent on this form is used to the advantage of the person giving the help. One can try to claim it as experience. So this helps them. You are correct in some cases. I have read many threads and see that many people asking the question really need the help. After trying 5 or 6 times or more they get a response that may help. This could all be avoided but someone who is really willing to help. Your right, generally the person will get nothing except a thank you, making this forum professional and known across the net, as the real place to go for help, by those who care.

If you were actually paying him for his time, I'm sure he would be much more vigorous. The same goes for me too, as well as many others who post on forums.

Yes, I am sure you are correct here. But based on past answers, would you spend your money? Is he regulated? Is he licensed? Would he then be liable for losses created by any given solutions? Would he sign a contract on these things? I don’t know, but basically this would take much time to negotiate, would it not. So one comes to this forum for HELP from those who really want to help, especially if people ask for detail and a better explanation, etc… as many have. He certainly doesn’t have to waste his valuable time helping people like your clients on this forum when he can simply be paid for his help. I’m sure many would purchase his products and pay him, but to suggest this on this formum seems like a conflict of interest [my opinion only].

His comments are sometimes not as clear as they should be, but even so they are generally good advice - and are usually enough to for you to look things up yourself.

Yes, I don’t disagree with you. What if you don’t understand the comment? What if you then don’t understand where to look. What real help was given, when you and I both know much of what appears here is certainly not considered brain surgery, or even requiring a very simplistic code fix, or whatever. My point is that to many they come here because they are really stuck. It may be on a very fundamental level, so at least a clear solution would help them. This is my point.

No matter what advice is given, you cannot expect unpaid people (who you don't even know) to put in huge amounts of effort for you, and write out absolutely everything - we are here to help you do it yourself, not to explain in detail the "how" and "why" for every single step you need to do.


You are correct you cannot. These people, then should not waste there precious time. They should be paid for there help, I completely agree. Then this forum will be open to those who a) want to help those with these problems, b) want the experience of helping others, and c) feel good about their quality of help and really making the client feel good. Some people ask the how and why because this is not their field of expertise and in many cases this how and why would be CONSIDERABLY SHORTER than this conversation about it. Hence, this would not occur and all would be OK.

Quote:
First of all the scenario you are presenting here does not really make much sense. Let me try to explain. Here you are talking about ...
I am aware that there are extra regulations there, but even with that people still need to have a first (and second, and third) project - people aren't born with that experience.

You are absolutely correct here. Yes they do. However this scenario you presented is where this type of person would NOT fit in. One could act as a CADD operator or Technologist under the engineer, but would not be able to solve the problems involved with a bridge. That is why the argument does not fit this case on this forum.

It should be obvious that I meant keeping within regulations.
Quote:
So I submit, that experience, as you put it is NOT really a measure of one competence. ...
In a way that is true - you need to take into account not just the quantity of experience, but also the quality.

Yes, and also who is accrediting that experience as valid?? This accreditation is based on reputation and ethics.

For installations, randem has both - he is just missing exact experience of a specific area, but has enough related knowledge to give accurate advice.

I am not arguing with you. I’m sure you will stake your reputation on his abilities. That’s OK. That is not my argument at all, and never was.

Quote:
Oh, and please use the Quote tags (either use the button, or type them in, eg: Quote:quoted text here
), as the style of your posts makes them hard to read.Yes, thank you. I have tried on six different occasions?? What happens is I try to submit my quote and the system asks me log in. I do again and try to submit it, then this happens again. So please excuse me for doing this way.
I don't know why that problem is occurring, but look at your post, and think about what you have been doing instead.. you have proved that you can easily work around it.

Are you suggesting what I have told you is not correct? I did just that again now and the system is doing this again?? Why, I don’t know. Maybe my service is timing out, so I try again and it AGAIN asks me to log on, but does NOT do this if I just reply? So you tell me……….Maybe it’s my system, I don’t know but it still happens. Should I not reply if the quotes aren’t working for me??

It takes the same amount of effort to use quote tags as you are putting in to use the bold tags (if you are using the 'buttons' above the edit area, there is a quote button too).

Yes, I understand and again I am asked to log in???

Just think in ALL the lines generated about Randem and about being paid, my simple problem could have been explained [The HOW and Why], in less than 10 percent of the lines generated here. I wonder what that means about spending the time to HELP others????

[RobDog888]

Without getting more off topic, all members and moderators have knowledge and volunteer their time on the site. If you need exact help with your install then hiring someone to actually write the code and generate the package may be a better option here if time is an issue.

Back on topic, you can not simply modify your installation project to make your program run on Vista, that is only 50% of the changes needed. You need to write your program to play nicely with Vista's new security and virtualizations technology. Its not a simple "Do this and your program will run on Vista" type answer. It all depends upon all your code in your app and what it accesses and does that will determine what changes are actually needed. I believe you have found some of the MS articles on developers guidelines for Vista so I would recommend starting there to redesign your app. Hopefully this gives you an insigt on where to start in making changes to your programs code to make it Vista compatible.

[Bob334]

Thank you for that. I certainly respect the knowledge that people share on this forum.

May I ask you a Question? Let's assume for a moment that I have a *highly simplistic* program. One that has on a few controls [simple ones] and nothing else [for example]. Let's further assume I downloaded the LATEST VB6 runtime universal files and updated my VB6 by running it. Let's further assume I followed the STEPS to use my PDW. Can you explain what else I might have to do to this simplistic program to run it in Vista. This would be very helpful, thankyou.

May I ask. Is this forum meant for the purpose of hiring someone if a solution cannot be explained in a simple manner? I'm just asking because after reading many other threads more complex than mine, it seems they had a reasonable resolution. If this forum is meant to generate work for the volunteers, then I was unaware of this. I'm sorry.

Anyways, I am grateful for the help you feel you can give me. Thank you. Can you also look at my other request in this area on comment on it too. Thanks.

[RobDog888]

No, I was simply stating a contrast of what to expect for free support vs paid support timeframes.

If you have basic core controls then that still doesnt solve the issue as if you have "App.Path" in any of your code it will create problems on Vista as Vista will Virtualize the file into the users appdir but make it "appear" as though its int he app.dir still when its not. So sharing or connecting to files and databases break when the files are referred and located in such areas. Then you also have security and protected directories like Program Files and the root directory of a drive. So without seeing any code and knowing only core controls are being used it still cant be determined what you are needing exactly.

Does your app even start up? What types of errors are you getting? Does it use App.Path or read/write to the registry/protected directories?

[si_the_geek]

Hopefully this will be the last of the off-topic posts.

May I ask. Is this forum meant for the purpose of hiring someone if a solution cannot be explained in a simple manner?

Not at all - but if you want, some people here can be hired to do the work for you (which is why we have an Open Positions (Jobs) forum).

I'm just asking because after reading many other threads more complex than mine, it seems they had a reasonable resolution. If this forum is meant to generate work for the volunteers, then I was unaware of this. I'm sorry.

The problem isn't necessarily about the complexity of the subject, but the amount of effort you are putting in to research things yourself.

I was not suggesting earlier that "if you want help, pay for it", what I was saying is that you are asking for too much effort from volunteers - most of the information is there for you already (eg: P&DW has a help system, we have recommended some articles, there are articles on the Microsoft web site, ...), so learn what you can from those first, rather than asking us to re-explain everything in them to you.

In some cases the experts on a subject don't know the exact answer to your question, and to work it out fully would take more time/effort than is reasonable to expect - so telling you what kind of things to look into is a reasonable compromise.


If you want an extreme level of help, don't expect it for free. Instead, think about finding somebody (or multiple people if apt) to tutor you or do the work for you.

If you want free help, you are welcome to it - but you should put in some more effort yourself to fill in the gaps, rather than asking us to explain what existing documents/articles already explain.

I did just that again now and the system is doing this again?? Why, I don’t know. Maybe my service is timing out, so I try again and it AGAIN asks me to log on, but does NOT do this if I just reply?

I don't know why the problem is occurring, but it is easy to work around - go to Reply, and use the tags the same way you have used the Bold and Italic.

It takes the same amount of effort as bold/italic, and I explained how to do it in a previous post. You even used the tags properly at one point (accidentally, by pasting what I had posted).

[Bob334]

Hopefully this will be the last of the off-topic posts.

Quote:
May I ask. Is this forum meant for the purpose of hiring someone if a solution cannot be explained in a simple manner?

Not at all - but if you want, some people here can be hired to do the work for you (which is why we have an Open Positions (Jobs) forum).

Thank you. I saw that.

Quote:
I'm just asking because after reading many other threads more complex than mine, it seems they had a reasonable resolution. If this forum is meant to generate work for the volunteers, then I was unaware of this. I'm sorry.

The problem isn't necessarily about the complexity of the subject, but the amount of effort you are putting in to research things yourself.

Thank you for explaining this. How does one research a problem is that not understood?

I was not suggesting earlier that "if you want help, pay for it", what I was saying is that you are asking for too much effort from volunteers - most of the information is there for you already (eg: P&DW has a help system, we have recommended some articles, there are articles on the Microsoft web site, ...), so learn what you can from those first, rather than asking us to re-explain everything in them to you.

Yes I understand, but in this case the PDW did not explain about the changes to Vista did it? So how does this help me? I have developed software before, but none of this helps with Vista? So I asked about the steps to see if there were changes? This seems logical?

In some cases the experts on a subject don't know the exact answer to your question, and to work it out fully would take more time/effort than is reasonable to expect - so telling you what kind of things to look into is a reasonable compromise.

Thank you: Here is my simple problem. Please answer this and I will understand: Assume I have a very simple VB6 App. Suppose it simply does ONE thing - Namely adss 2 + 2 =4 [assuming the code is OK]. Assume I want to do a very simple print of the interface. And thats it. The Whole app maybe contains 2 or 3 lines of code. Now I want this to run in Vista. Doing what I suggested in my steps with the PDW, what else is required [for this app] to run in Vista? Can you explain this to me? Thankyou.


If you want an extreme level of help, don't expect it for free. Instead, think about finding somebody (or multiple people if apt) to tutor you or do the work for you.

I hope the above is not the extreme level of help. All this conversation back and forth is most certainly containing MORE lines than the solution I would expect.

If you want free help, you are welcome to it - but you should put in some more effort yourself to fill in the gaps, rather than asking us to explain what existing documents/articles already explain.

Yes, thankyou. That is what I am trying to do? My simple senario above should help......

Quote:
I did just that again now and the system is doing this again?? Why, I don’t know. Maybe my service is timing out, so I try again and it AGAIN asks me to log on, but does NOT do this if I just reply?

I don't know why the problem is occurring, but it is easy to work around - go to Reply, and use the tags the same way you have used the Bold and Italic.

I'm really sorry here but it's not working at my end?????

It takes the same amount of effort as bold/italic, and I explained how to do it in a previous post. You even used the tags properly at one point (accidentally, by pasting what I had posted).

[si_the_geek]

Thank you for explaining this. How does one research a problem is that not understood? ...

There are lots of things you can do, such as:

• If apt, look in the help (unfortunately not much good in this case).
• Search the 'support' section of the manufacturers web site (in this case, www.MSDN.Microsoft.com ), as it will often contain updated information.
• Look at our FAQ section, as it contains many tutorials etc.
• Search this site.
• Search the web.

And if people tell you about an article which they think might help, read it - as it probably will help.

Thank you: Here is my simple problem. ... Doing what I suggested in my steps with the PDW, what else is required [for this app] to run in Vista? Can you explain this to me? Thankyou.

Much earlier in this thread (and I have reminded you several times) I directed you to an article which explains the issues to look out for in your program - if something isn't listed there, it probably isn't worth worrying about (unfortunately the article isn't complete, but it contains the 'common' issues, which will probably cover your projects).

I hope the above is not the extreme level of help. All this conversation back and forth is most certainly containing MORE lines than the solution I would expect.

Why would I have wasted my time writing that if it wasn't?

It is extreme, because you aren't putting in effort to read the articles we recommend (so we need to explain information you already have, or keep reminding you to read it), and instead are putting your effort into long posts (which stops many people from even reading your posts) which berate the lack of help you are getting (which stops even more people).

The size of your threads is very unusual. We have hundreds of threads here every day, and it is rare to see one this large more than once a month - and then usually only for complex issues. The size is not due to the people replying as you seem to think - it is due to you not putting in enough effort yourself.

We are here to help you, not to tell you every detail of absolutely everything you might possibly need to know (especially when the details are in articles we have directed you to).

I'm really sorry here but it's not working at my end?????

Yes it is. It may not be working in an ideal way, but you proved (accidentally) that you can do it.. and even after being told and reminded, you still don't seem to realise that.

To make your text italic (as you have been doing), you either use the "I" button above the edit area, or write the tags:

[i] text here [/i]

To show a quote, you do virtually the same thing.. use the "quote" button above the edit area, or write the tags:

[quote] quoted text here [/quote]

I have explained this several times, and you still don't seem to have made any attempt to do it. If you can't get something as simple as that working (after being told/reminded how several times), I don't see much hope of you getting your program working on Vista.

[Bob334]

No, I was simply stating a contrast of what to expect for free support vs paid support timeframes.

If you have basic core controls then that still doesnt solve the issue as if you have "App.Path" in any of your code it will create problems on Vista as Vista will Virtualize the file into the users appdir but make it "appear" as though its int he app.dir still when its not. So sharing or connecting to files and databases break when the files are referred and located in such areas. Then you also have security and protected directories like Program Files and the root directory of a drive. So without seeing any code and knowing only core controls are being used it still cant be determined what you are needing exactly.

Does your app even start up? What types of errors are you getting? Does it use App.Path or read/write to the registry/protected directories?

No there is nothing that refers to App.path. There are no databases. Can you explain what this security and protected directories would be with the simple app I presented?

Yes, this simple app. starts and runs OK. Like I said it anly has a few lines of code. No problems running in XP. What else is required to run in Vista? Thank you.

[Bob334]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob334
Thank you for explaining this. How does one research a problem is that not understood? ...

There are lots of things you can do, such as:
If apt, look in the help (unfortunately not much good in this case).
Search the 'support' section of the manufacturers web site (in this case, www.MSDN.Microsoft.com ), as it will often contain updated information.
Look at our FAQ section, as it contains many tutorials etc.
Search this site.
Search the web.
And if people tell you about an article which they think might help, read it - as it probably will help.

Thankyou for this informative information. Anyone not doing this would not be able to build a simple app. Building one of 2M lines of code would even be more difficult. So thank you.


Quote:
Thank you: Here is my simple problem. ... Doing what I suggested in my steps with the PDW, what else is required [for this app] to run in Vista? Can you explain this to me? Thankyou.

Much earlier in this thread (and I have reminded you several times) I directed you to an article which explains the issues to look out for in your program - if something isn't listed there, it probably isn't worth worrying about (unfortunately the article isn't complete, but it contains the 'common' issues, which will probably cover your projects).

Yes I understand and am grateful, the others stated this was only a small part of the solution, so that is why I asked again......

Quote:
I hope the above is not the extreme level of help. All this conversation back and forth is most certainly containing MORE lines than the solution I would expect.

Why would I have wasted my time writing that if it wasn't?

It is extreme, because you aren't putting in effort to read the articles we recommend (so we need to explain information you already have, or keep reminding you to read it), and instead are putting your effort into long posts (which stops many people from even reading your posts) which berate the lack of help you are getting (which stops even more people).

If I gave you a simple question in my area of expertize you would most certainly look like you were not doing the research. And the suggestions you made above would be of little help because you would have to understand the fundamental concepts to make the links........so you comment is not correct in this case

The size of your threads is very unusual. We have hundreds of threads here every day, and it is rare to see one this large more than once a month - and then usually only for complex issues. The size is not due to the people replying as you seem to think - it is due to you not putting in enough effort yourself.

So what does this prove? Again I make the comment I made above.

We are here to help you, not to tell you every detail of absolutely everything you might possibly need to know (especially when the details are in articles we have directed you to).

Thank you for your Help. What else do I have to do to this simple app to have it run in Vista? No complex code involved, No complex controls, All very simple with a few lines of code. Will this work OK, based on what you said before, or is this only 50% of the solution? If so, what is the other 50% of the solution for this simple app?

Quote:
I'm really sorry here but it's not working at my end?????

Yes it is. It may not be working in an ideal way, but you proved (accidentally) that you can do it.. and even after being told and reminded, you still don't seem to realise that.

To make your text italic (as you have been doing), you either use the "I" button above the edit area, or write the tags:
text here
To show a quote, you do virtually the same thing.. use the "quote" button above the edit area, or write the tags:

quoted text here

I have explained this several times, and you still don't seem to have made any attempt to do it. If you can't get something as simple as that working (after being told/reminded how several times), I don't see much hope of you getting your program working on Vista.

You seem to presume things not true. My system was converted to high speed last night. No problem now, as the system is not seeming to time out every 2 min, so I had to answer in another mode. Should I be pressumed lame for this problem with my system????

[si_the_geek]

You seem to presume things not true. My system was converted to high speed last night. ...

At no point have I said/implied that you weren't having a problem - but I have repeatedly said (and explained how) you can easily work around it.

You were definitely capable yesterday, as you proved in post #25, but apparently (this is the only assumption) chose not to bother.

Yes I understand and am grateful, the others stated this was only a small part of the solution, so that is why I asked again......

Which is why I reminded you, yet again, about the FAQ article - which explains what you need to check/change in your program.

If I gave you a simple question in my area of expertize you would most certainly look like you were not doing the research. And the suggestions you made above would be of little help because you would have to understand the fundamental concepts to make the links........so you comment is not correct in this case
...

That is absolute rubbish.. you have been given (via the FAQ link way back in post #4) a list of things to look out for, and how to correct them if needed. As I have said before, if something isn't listed there, it probably isn't worth worrying about.

You have also been given links to other articles - yet you still keep on asking us for things to look out for, which as we keep reminding you is what the FAQ and articles explain!


Put in some effort.. read the articles we have recommended, they answer the questions that you are still asking.

Asking for clarification on what is in the articles is fair enough, asking us to repeat the articles is not. Continually asking us to do that (especially after we repeatedly tell you to go and read the articles) is absolutely ridiculous.


I see no point in me replying to you again - it seems that you are not going to get to the point of asking a question that hasn't already been answered, or even stop making excuses for not reading what you have been given.

[Bob334]

Put in some effort.. read the articles we have recommended, they answer the questions that you are still asking.

I have read them!!! Can you please indicate the paragraph in any of them that specifically deals with this problem I asked on this simple App? If it answers my question, then this shall be resolved........Is that fair???

Asking for clarification on what is in the articles is fair enough, asking us to repeat the articles is not. Continually asking us to do that (especially after we repeatedly tell you to go and read the articles) is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm sorry you presume I am not doing something.....It's easy for you to judge......You were wrong about my system and you are wrong about this to.....So I have to go without a solution because you cannot give me the answer??? You say these articles address my SPECIFIC problem and yet I cannot seem to see the correct solution in them.......So again I ask for the SPECIFIC paragraph in any article that clears this up completely and I will consider this resolved. If I do not hear from you, then of course I will assume that you have not read these articles and do not know where the solution is yourself......... Thank you for your help. I look forward to this shortly.....

[si_the_geek]

You were wrong about my system

Are you capable of reading?

I have made no comments about your system, so how could I be wrong about it?

What I said is that you weren't bothering to use the options available to you, even after I had explained them & repeatedly reminded you.

You say these articles address my SPECIFIC problem and yet I cannot seem to see the correct solution in them.......

Do you have a specific problem? No (unless you are hiding it from us), you just want advice.

As I said in my previous post (and in others before) about things that are not listed in the FAQ article - you do not need to worry about them. Most code is fine.

[Bob334]

Thank you. I will assume that my app is OK and will run fine in Vista. I will also assume this app will print propoerly and load up properly from the setup.exe. I base this assumption on the fact That you have read and understand the FAQ you indicated - as I have clearly stated this is not my area of expertze - so my understanding here is obviously not as good as yours. Hence the advice given, over rides the others when they indicated that this was only part of the problem..Thank you it only took several hundred lines of writing to confirm what you said in the beginning and that the other stuff I had to worry about was not a real concern at all with my simple app.

[RobDog888]

No there is nothing that refers to App.path. There are no databases. Can you explain what this security and protected directories would be with the simple app I presented?

Yes, this simple app. starts and runs OK. Like I said it anly has a few lines of code. No problems running in XP. What else is required to run in Vista? Thank you.

Maybe if you posted your code it would be easier to answer then to guess what it is doing as I cant cover all aspects of the Vista changes in a thread, let alone a single article.

If it runs fine then whats the problem(s)?