Fidel Resigns Presidency!

[silentthread]

It still sucks because his brother will take power, but maybe this will lead to a series of events in which communism will die in Cuba....

Que viva la libertad!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americ...tro/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331149,00.html

http://www.nbc6.net/news/15338697/de...02210202192008

[abhijit]

Give him a break, the guy is 81 years old.

[mendhak]

The only thing wrong with communism is the people who complain about it.

[Hack]

The only thing wrong with communism is the people who enforce it.

[Tom Sawyer]

The only thing wrong with communism is the fundamental logic upon which the theory is based.

[zaza]

The only thing wrong with communism is that I keep finding practitioners under my bed.

[Lord Orwell]

hint: communism doesn't have dictators. Think about it...

[capsulecorpjx]

In Soviet Russia, Presidency Resigns Fidel!

[nemaroller]

The only thing wrong with communism is the people who complain about it.

Not true... those people are immediately put to death.

The real downfall of communism was the complete inability to purchase a comfortable pair of Levi blue jeans.

[KGComputers]

Communism is the alter ego of DEMOCRACY....

[FishGuy]

Excuse my ignorance but why is Fidel seen as a hate figure yet Che Guevara is seen as ikonic?

[mendhak]

He's perceived as evil outside Cuba because, apparently 50 years later and after the collapse of the Soviet Union, communism is still a threat to America.

[timeshifter]

Communism is the alter ego of DEMOCRACY....

The fun part would be to see a communist or socialist government with a free market economy... if that's even possible.

[mendhak]

I'd love to see a free market economy.

[timeshifter]

Supposedly that's what the US of A has... doesn't seem very free, though. But I still won't pay more.

[MasterBlaster]

He's perceived as evil outside Cuba because, apparently 50 years later and after the collapse of the Soviet Union, communism is still a threat to America.

I would consider pointing nuclear weapons at the East coast of the US as a threat to america. I dunno, that's just me. Castro is just as hated inside cuba as he is outside of it.

[mendhak]

You're right, those nuclear weapons had nothing to do with the CIA attempting to overthrow the Cuban government. And I'm sure the immigrant population in the US are a proper representation of the complete statistical views of his popularity at home.

Pity me.

[Thunder!]

so does this mean the end of all the communist dictators in the world, or will his brother just do the same as fidel?

[capsulecorpjx]

so does this mean the end of all the communist dictators in the world, or will his brother just do the same as fidel?

Nope you forgot North korea.

[wild_bill]

And Petoria!

[Lord Orwell]

You're right, those nuclear weapons had nothing to do with the CIA attempting to overthrow the Cuban government. And I'm sure the immigrant population in the US are a proper representation of the complete statistical views of his popularity at home.

Pity me.

Even if they did, the fact is that both the Soviet Union (who actually placed the missiles there) and the United States had thousands of nuclear missiles closer than 50 miles off of each other's shore already. Ever hear of nuclear submarines? There are many more things i could say about this, but the fact is that the missiles weren't placed there to be a threat. They were there to piss us off. It was all part of the cold war. As for the immigrants, i would be willing to bet that a lot of them want to come to the US for the same reason we want to stay here. Our country is richer and gives a better way of life.

[MaximilianMayrhofer]

You americans are absurdly proud of your so called 'better way of life'. Statistically, 1 in every 4 americans is morbidly obese, while 1 in 3 falls within the obese weight range. The only reason that you haven't entered another great depression is that your creditors haven't asked you to pay back your loans in a currency you can't print. Your culture is second only to japan in its xenophobia, which is of course ridiculous because america isn't old enough for the world to forget that every one of your ancestors is a genocidal immigrant (and by that I mean that they killed the only REAL americans, the native americans). Your health system is actually pretty terrible, compared even to Cuba.

[timeshifter]

Don't blame that on the citizens. Blame it on the government and advertising... paired with peoples' stupidity. Ok.. fine. Blame it on the people.

[KGComputers]

The fun part would be to see a communist or socialist government with a free market economy... if that's even possible.

People can directly visit CUBA. CHINA and North Korea or do business....

Greg

[mendhak]

Even if they did, the fact is that both the Soviet Union (who actually placed the missiles there) and the United States had thousands of nuclear missiles closer than 50 miles off of each other's shore already. Ever hear of nuclear submarines? There are many more things i could say about this, but the fact is that the missiles weren't placed there to be a threat. They were there to piss us off. It was all part of the cold war. As for the immigrants, i would be willing to bet that a lot of them want to come to the US for the same reason we want to stay here. Our country is richer and gives a better way of life.

So you're saying that the entire reason that the USSR and Cuba conspired together to place missiles on the Cuban coast pointed at the USA was not out of survival instincts or nationalistic self interests, but for the sole purpose of being an annoyance? I can believe that.

Of course it was part of the cold war, but nothing happens unprovoked. the USA didn't like Castro and were trying to overthrow him by sending a force of CIA-trained exiles back to CUba, and he did what any country would do in self defense. Keep in mind, a war is both ways. It's two sides in a conflict. This is a basic definition. One side will win and rewrite their version of events for the younger generation, but neither side is truly absolved of Machiavellian scheming to undermine the other.

[BillGeek]

I'm ignorant. Everyone knows that. But I'm also stupid. (For those of you who don't know that)

What is the difference between communism and capitalism, besides the fact that your leader is not chosen by the public, but rather by himself?

(English is not my first language, so please help me out here...)

[mendhak]

Simple. Capitalism was an economic system created by God himself, Communism was created by Satan (with help from Iran, Korea, USSR, China and Cuba) to oppose the decent hardworking people that live and work under Capitalism.

[MaximilianMayrhofer]

Amen, praise Jesus (pronounced hay-soos)

[BillGeek]

Why does it "oppose" capatalism? (or rather the people under it?) What's the definition? Or requirements of communism? I don't understand this stuff.

[mendhak]

I think, according to some statistics website, Gaia Online is the most popular forum out there. Rumor has it that if you create a new thread, by the time you finish submitting it and go to the main page to view it, it's already on page 3.

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/

[FishGuy]

So again why is Che Guevara so revered?

[BillGeek]

I think, according to some statistics website, Gaia Online is the most popular forum out there. Rumor has it that if you create a new thread, by the time you finish submitting it and go to the main page to view it, it's already on page 3.

That happens here at VBF to me as well... (Must be the slow internet connection...)

[mendhak]

Aah, an accidental posting in the wrong thread. Or was it...

[Lord Orwell]

You americans are absurdly proud of your so called 'better way of life'. Statistically, 1 in every 4 americans is morbidly obese, while 1 in 3 falls within the obese weight range. The only reason that you haven't entered another great depression is that your creditors haven't asked you to pay back your loans in a currency you can't print. Your culture is second only to japan in its xenophobia, which is of course ridiculous because america isn't old enough for the world to forget that every one of your ancestors is a genocidal immigrant (and by that I mean that they killed the only REAL americans, the native americans). Your health system is actually pretty terrible, compared even to Cuba.

I would agree with that, except for a couple of details:
1. i AM native american. If you are referring to white people, they make up only 40% of the population.
2. who came up with the xenophobia statistic? I am sure if you dig deeper you will see that we have more immigrants than you do.
3. I was comparing our way of life to Cuba's, not the rest of the world. I personally would prefer to live in Japan.
4. Cuba actually has one of the best public health systems in the world.
5. If you haven't experienced our health system, don't knock it. I've been hospitalized three times. It's a HELL of a lot better than it used to be. When i was a child, they didn't have to accept you in hospitals when you didn't have insurance and my brother died of pneumonia. Today, they are required to. If it wasn't for this fact, both I and my wife would be dead. I had pneumonia as well, and my wife had a cyst on her ovary when she was 15.

You are of course entirely accurate about the creditor thing. Everyone knows it but we can't seem to get Congress to stop their @#$#@ spending. Our current president took over when we actually had a surplus. It took him about a month to turn that into a $500,000,000,000 defecit. Later he dropped that by about 1/2 and touted his ability to "cut spending". Bush's biggest problem isn't that he's stupid. It's that he thinks everyone else is.

[MasterBlaster]

So you're saying that the entire reason that the USSR and Cuba conspired together to place missiles on the Cuban coast pointed at the USA was not out of survival instincts or nationalistic self interests, but for the sole purpose of being an annoyance? I can believe that.

Of course it was part of the cold war, but nothing happens unprovoked. the USA didn't like Castro and were trying to overthrow him by sending a force of CIA-trained exiles back to CUba, and he did what any country would do in self defense. Keep in mind, a war is both ways. It's two sides in a conflict. This is a basic definition. One side will win and rewrite their version of events for the younger generation, but neither side is truly absolved of Machiavellian scheming to undermine the other.

The placing of nukes by the soviet union in cuba was part of an unofficial trade agreement between castro and the soviets. Most of the world had placed embargos on cuba and castro's choices were, side with the soviets, resign, or starve. He chose to keep his power. Obviously the soviets and americans were perfectly capable of nuking each other back to the stone age any way so Castro's motivation was in his self interest only. Regardless, pointing a nuke at any one can be considered a threat, which was my initial point. And no, Castro was not very popular with his own people. Considering that around 33,000 cubans emigrate legally to the us yearly and castro has been in power since 1959, Id say that there are enough cubans in Miami to get an accurate approval rating for Castro. The last # I heard was slightly lower than the approval rating for the Current President of the US. At least we won't have to deal with Bush running the show for 50 years. We get a perfectly good brand new retard every 8 years.

[mendhak]

1. Yes, it's considered a threat to point a nuke at someone. And it is considered a threat to attempt to overthrow a government. There are two sides, both are at fault; one side cannot wash its hands of responsibility and suddenly label the other as evil simply because... oh wait, it can!

2. I'd say there aren't enough Cubans in Miami to get an accurate approval rating. Just like I don't think that the obnoxious Americans or drunken Britishers I meet on holidays are an accurate representation of everyone in their home countries. So I did a search on Castro approval ratings. Couldn't find anything. I wonder if these 'approval ratings' are being invented by someone on the ether. The best I could find was this.

[Xanith]

1. Yes, it's considered a threat to point a nuke at someone. And it is considered a threat to attempt to overthrow a government. There are two sides, both are at fault; one side cannot wash its hands of responsibility and suddenly label the other as evil simply because... oh wait, it can!

2. I'd say there aren't enough Cubans in Miami to get an accurate approval rating. Just like I don't think that the obnoxious Americans or drunken Britishers I meet on holidays are an accurate representation of everyone in their home countries. So I did a search on Castro approval ratings. Couldn't find anything. I wonder if these 'approval ratings' are being invented by someone on the ether. The best I could find was this.

Hmmm so an attempt to overthrow a government is considered a threat huh? Wasn’t it Fidel Castro that led an armed revolution against the established Cuban government and overthrew it? Ohhh the irony…

There are 1.2 million Cuban-Americans in the US with about 11.3 million Cubans living in Cuba. This is about 11% of the Cuban population living in the US, I would say that is pretty substantial. Of course we cannot get a real sense of Castro’s popularity (in Cuba, outside Cuba he’s hated) because of the closed communist society they have, and because anyone that opposes him usually gets sent to jail or disappears into the night. We could of course poll those Cubans that try to escape Castro’s grip on rafts and ask them how they feel about Castro.

X

[Shaggy Hiker]

Hmmm so an attempt to overthrow a government is considered a threat huh? Wasn’t it Fidel Castro that led an armed revolution against the established Cuban government and overthrew it? Ohhh the irony…

X

Established, yes, but established in a coup, so the revolutionaries had as much right to it as anybody else.

The cuban exile community is so emotionally tied into Cuba that it is hard to get any clear understanding of that issue from them, or anybody closely associated with them.

My opinion is that if the exile community has its way, there will be a bloodbath in Cuba as they exterminate and subjugate the Cubans who support Castro, and there are plenty of them. Of course, those supporters may not truly support Castro, they may just remember what their lot was before Castro took over. After all, Castro wasn't a one man army. Certain segments of the people arose in a popular revolt which Castro eventually took control of, but he didn't start the revolt.

So why did people throw off the existing government? Perhaps because it was excessively exploitative and corrupt. I don't see any evidence that the exile community has learned anything from an extended stay in the US. While I was living down there, Alpha66 (the exile paramilitary group) was in the news every few months, and at one point the exile community blocked the FL turnpike. One of the bizarre demands in that protest was that the US forcibly remove Castro. I was kind of amused that they would feel that a roadblock on a Miami beltway road would generate enough leverage to get the US to invade Cuba.

They've got plenty of power, but it sure looks like they use their power to keep from seeing themselves as others see them. They feel that things were taken from them, and that is correct, since their property was taken from them, but it was taken because of the general misbehavior. It is not in the best interest of Cuba, or the US, that that particular element of the exile community be allowed to regain the power that was lost.

[homer13j]

So again why is Che Guevara so revered?

Because a photographer from Life magazine once took a romantic photo of him that made liberals swoon and buy lots of t-shirts and posters with that image on it thus supporting the evil capitalism they so despise.

The real downfall of communism was the complete inability to purchase a comfortable pair of Levi blue jeans.

I would argue that it was tobacco-related. Think about it... The Soviet citizens went through lots of shortages. They learned to wait in long lines for (or do without) bread, meat, milk, coffee, and even vodka. But as soon as cigarettes became scarce that was it - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was finished.

[SurfDemon]

Whilst we're talking about Cuba, how come the US has this dry foot policy or whatever it is. Two things about it confuse me...

1) If a cuban sets foot on US soil, he automatically get's residency..... yet immigrants from other countries (with far worse human rights records against their citizens) have to jump through hoops.....

and

2) How come the coast guard put so much effort into stopping them when they are just off-shore... if they stop them in time, they get sent straight home... it just seems kinda weird that you have guys waiting on the beach with open arms, but first the immigrants have to make it passed another bunch of guys out at sea (who work for the same government) who are actively trying to stop them.... Mybe it's kind of an immigration test, if you can sneak past the coast-guard, you're just the kind of immigrant we need.