C++ or C#...what should be my next step?

[MotoMan_Yz400]

I'm sitting here writing this as I'm waiting for my VB2008 Express to finish downloading. As browsing the MicroSoft web page, I see they also have C# and C++ Express versions for download. Here's my background:

I've started WAY back in the day with good ol' QBasic, then moved myself to VB6.0. I did alittle programing in that, then VB.NET Express was released and I've been playing around more in that. All my knowledge in programing languages was self taught through tutorials and online forums like this. Now after doing the visual thing for a while, I found it to be very hard to create good powerful programs in VB due to it's limitations. So with C being offered in a free download form, I was considering getting it to play around with, how-ever I'm unsure the differences between C# and C++, and which would make a better language to move to after VB.NET.

So here my question, as stated above, I would like to move to something more powerful, yet b/c all my coding knowledge is self taught, could one actually learn one of these fairly easily? Which language should I try? Which one would be better for a game building newbie? Anyone close enough to VB.NET where it would make the transition smoothly?

[Atheist]

C# is closer to VB.Net because it too runs on the .Net framework. It could be considered more powerful than VB.Net due to the fact that it supports pointers and unsafe code.

C++ is more "powerful", because its a lower-level language than VB.Net and C#, but it is also alot harder to learn. Of course, there is C++/cli which is C++ with the .Net framework, but I personally dont really use that, as it feels like it defeats the purpose of the otherwise cross-platform language that is C++.

You say you're a game building newbie..C++ is a very good language to create games in, though like I said, a bit hard.
Try searching for XNA on MSDN, its a DirectX wrapper for C# that provides an easy way to create games for Windows and Xbox 360.

(and finally, I think this thread would be better of in General Developer)

[MotoMan_Yz400]

C# is closer to VB.Net because it too runs on the .Net framework. It could be considered more powerful than VB.Net due to the fact that it supports pointers and unsafe code.

C++ is more "powerful", because its a lower-level language than VB.Net and C#, but it is also alot harder to learn. Of course, there is C++/cli which is C++ with the .Net framework, but I personally dont really use that, as it feels like it defeats the purpose of the otherwise cross-platform language that is C++.

Yeah, that makes sense, I'll look into it! Thanks!

You say you're a game building newbie..C++ is a very good language to create games in, though like I said, a bit hard.
Try searching for XNA on MSDN, its a DirectX wrapper for C# that provides an easy way to create games for Windows and Xbox 360.

(and finally, I think this thread would be better of in General Developer)

Yeah your right, I just put it here only bc with me being a VB.NET person, I want to get opinions of fellow VB.NET'ers i guess. Someone can move it if they'd like.

[Kasracer]

C++ > C# > VB.Net

Fyi

*ducks*

[Atheist]

C++ > C# > VB.Net

Fyi

*ducks*

I prefer to say: "Use the right tool for job"

[MotoMan_Yz400]

Thats the problem, I dont know what the right tool is for my job. the XNA tool looks very promising. I'm by no means a programmer, how-ever if there is something I need to accomplish, I can find out the answer and get it done. Just takes me longer than most people. (hey never had schooling on this, or read one of those 'Learn XX in 24 hours' books)

[Tom Sawyer]

Thats the problem, I dont know what the right tool is for my job.

Well, what's your job?

[MotoMan_Yz400]

Well, what's your job?

See thats the think, I really dont have one. I jump around on small home personal projects. Lately I've been trying to work on a media desktop so when windows boots, it goes right to my program and that way I can flip through movies, music, etc easily, and how I want it. Then at times I would like to make games. Ive been wanting to play around with 3D for years now, but always saw it as too difficult to wrap my head around. Plus I would like to start doing some micro controller experiments, but that requires me to write it in C, then compile into assembly. I'm mostly looking for something where I can have the power behind C, but not be so over-whelmed by it that it doesnt go anywhere.

[Atheist]

Then I suggest that you atleast start off with XNA. I wouldnt say its easy, but its defenitly not as hard as C++ and OpenGL/DirectX.
I can recommend this book if you're interested in learning it.

[MotoMan_Yz400]

Then I suggest that you atleast start off with XNA. I wouldnt say its easy, but its defenitly not as hard as C++ and OpenGL/DirectX.
I can recommend this book if you're interested in learning it.

Well pardon my ignorance, but is XNA stand-alone? or is it meant to be used in conjunction with anything? If the latter, what language does it support? Do I still need to get my hands on some C material? Could I use VB.NET? I'm picking the book up tonight (if they have it) and would like to begin looking into it a little more closely.

[Atheist]

Well pardon my ignorance, but is XNA stand-alone? or is it meant to be used in conjunction with anything? If the latter, what language does it support? Do I still need to get my hands on some C material? Could I use VB.NET? I'm picking the book up tonight (if they have it) and would like to begin looking into it a little more closely.

XNA is used along with either Visual C# express 2005, or Visual Studio 2005. It uses the C# language.

[brad jones]

I agree with many of the prior comment -

C# should be easier to learn and work with than C++. While I don't recommend the 24 hour books, I've heard that both the current C# and C++ 21 Days books are good .

XNA studio is a good way to go if you are wanting to do games for Windows. It is somewhat assumed that you do based on your starting with the comment about VB .NET. If you want to do games that might port to Linux or something else, then you should go straight to C++. It will take longer to get up to speed, but you'll have more power to work with when you get there.

Of course, if you want to use XNA, then that does push you to C#. That is a good way to go if you want to do Windows games, plus you can also target Xbox 360s if you are willing to pay a small yearly subscription fee.

All in all, you can do game programming with any of the languages you choose. If you want to balance power with effort, then C# with something like the XNA Studio Add-in is a good way to go.

Brad!

[chemicalNova]

FYI.. C++ programming has been free for a long time (that is, ANSI C++).

chem

[brad jones]

FYI.. C++ programming has been free for a long time (that is, ANSI C++).

chem

Technically all languages are free, it is the compilers and tools that often cost.....

C++ and C# are open standards. VB isn't really.

Brad!

[Atheist]

I've heard that both the current C# and C++ 21 Days books are good .

Well yes, I heard those are the best ones you can find!

[chemicalNova]

Brad: While you're viewing this..

You didn't happen to write that C++ in 21 days book thats about.. 5 years old now, and it was filled with horrible MFC stuff?

chem

[brad jones]

Brad: While you're viewing this..

You didn't happen to write that C++ in 21 days book thats about.. 5 years old now, and it was filled with horrible MFC stuff?

chem

Uh. No. It has some STL and is a bit dated (2004), but it is not that bad.

I actually was only involved with updating the book for the fifth Edition. Due to other book projects, a different person (one of the guys from Codeguru.com) is updating it to the sixth edition. I was involved in some of the outline and up front work and know that this edition is the complete overhaul that I wanted to do -- but wasn't given time to do -- in the fifth edition. If Sidd pulls off what was planned, it should be a great into C++ book.


Bringing this post back around to the thread topic....
You can learn a lot about C# in one book. You'll learn less about C++ in one book. If you choose to learn C++, expect a longer period of time before you create that application that does something really cool. Even with the STL and other libraries it still takes time to learn it all. With C# it will go a bit quicker and with the .NET Framework and C# it can go even faster yet.

Brad!