Is this a router problem?

[mrstuff68]

Currently I have 3 computers on my network, they are all wired. This is what happens after about a week of being on the network and connected to the internet, all of a sudden in the morning I cant get online from any of the computer. I have Linksys router, model BEFSR41. What I figured out is that I need to connect one of my computers directly to the dsl box, then get online on that computer, surf the web. Then I reconnect my dsl box to the router and all the computers are able to get only. What is causing this? What do I need to do so that I dont have to do that?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[I_Love_My_Vans]

Are all of your computers online constantly?

Try setting your router to dial on demand, this would cut the net connection out when not used, then it would redial when a PC request an internet service.

ILMV

[mrstuff68]

Yes, my 2 desktops are connected to the internet all the time, only used for about 8-10hrs daily.

I am going to try and see if I can change the setting on the router.

[Lord Orwell]

most dsl routers clone the mac address of the computer plugged into port 1. Sounds like somehow this router lost that information because your internet was still working if you plugged the computer directly into the modem. Next time check the cable connections between the primary computer and the router and try logging into the router's built-in configuration page to make sure the cloning is working properly.

[dbasnett]

Is this your config?

---- -------- ------
dsl |----| linksys |----| pc's |
---- -------- ------

Currently I have 3 computers on my network, they are all wired. This is what happens after about a week of being on the network and connected to the internet, all of a sudden in the morning I cant get online from any of the computer. I have Linksys router, model BEFSR41. What I figured out is that I need to connect one of my computers directly to the dsl box, then get online on that computer, surf the web. Then I reconnect my dsl box to the router and all the computers are able to get only. What is causing this? What do I need to do so that I dont have to do that?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

most dsl routers clone the mac address of the computer plugged into port 1. Sounds like somehow this router lost that information because your internet was still working if you plugged the computer directly into the modem. Next time check the cable connections between the primary computer and the router and try logging into the router's built-in configuration page to make sure the cloning is working properly.

Routers do not clone anything unless you specify it to, at least good ones.
Routers have their own MAC address just like any other networking device.

Try setting your router using PPPoE on the router instead of on the modem, that takes the modem out of the equation and makes the router responsible for making the connection to the ISP. Ask your ISP to test the line, they can do this remotely so don't buy their BS that they have to send someone out to test it. If they see everything is fine, I would point the finger towards the modem. If a new modem doesn't fix it, get a new router. If a new router doesn't fix it, the problem then lies between in your house and outside your house. Its up to your discretion, but I would HIGHLY advise to have your ISP send their own guys out to fix the wiring. DO NOT hire Joe-Blows electricians because if they do something to where the DSL doesn't work, you would probably have to pay them again to fix it. Where if your ISP came out and worked on it and it still wasn't working, it would be on their hands to come out again and fix it and you would have easy legal recourse if they wanted to charge you again.

And are you sure you have filters on all your phones? You have to have those on all phones in the house to make sure that the phone doesn't disrupt the DSL signal from the CO since its all on the same line. What I did was put a filter on the line coming into the house and that way all phones in the house are on a filter and ran the other line to the modem.

[Lord Orwell]

quite aware routers have their own mac address. It's printed on them. However, usually if you can unplug a computer from the router and plug it directly into the modem and it still works, then it's cloning your mac address, due to the fact that most (not all) broadband providers use the mac address to authenticate the account.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

quite aware routers have their own mac address. It's printed on them. However, usually if you can unplug a computer from the router and plug it directly into the modem and it still works, then it's cloning your mac address, due to the fact that most (not all) broadband providers use the mac address to authenticate the account.

It doesn't authenticate based on MAC addresses, it goes against a username/password combo, see PPPoE. Very few ISPs use a hard coded MAC address, I mean very few. That means that everytime you use a different computer you have to call the ISP and tell them the MAC address.
You are sort of right, the modem keeps track of all devices attached to it by MAC address. However, unplugging from the router and straight into the modem *should not* work. The reasoning behind this is because its a whole new device and the modem will try to handle out another public IP address to it. And usually people only purchase the 1 IP package and it would appear to the average person that its not working, because the modem got the information from the ISP saying that this customer only gets 1 public IP address. Using your logic, how would I be able to connect multiple machines to a given modem where all have public IP addresses? It simply would not work.
Again, given your scenario your PC would have to clone the MAC address of the router. The modem will not be able to tell your PC to change the MAC address, in fact I don't even think any protocol exists that have the ability to change the MAC address of a device on demand. I do believe that devices will automatically change their MAC address if it already exists on the network, but not 100% sure on that one.
I have never used a piece of equipment that automatically cloned MAC addresses.

Try it at home, if you have a router plugged in, unplug it and plug your computer (or a laptop directly into the modem). Let me know what happens. In fact I will try it right now with my DSL.
Edit:
Yup, I was right. It doesn't hand me a public IP address, instead it hands me a private IP address and I have no internet access. Plugged it back into my router and it was working fine.

[Lord Orwell]

well i only have experience with the services i used, and (for example) the cable internet i used, they had a record of the mac address and if i attempted to use it with a different computer it wouldn't work. I set it up over the phone and had to read them the mac address. I had to use a cloning router with the original computer hooked into port 1.
Don't forget there are other authentication methods besides pppoe and it may be unix (SLIP).

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

What is your ISP?
AT&T (DSL and dail-up provider) uses PPPoE for modems and PCs. While Comcast (cable internet, ie over coax) modems track by MAC address. Though the actual installation was transparent to the customer...I have a feeling during registration the MAC address of the modem is recorded in Comcast's servers. But, this doesn't limit me to what I can plug into the modem to access the service. Downside is that the modem keeps a record in its own RAM of what I have plugged in. I have a 5 IP address package from them, and once I plug a 6th computer into the switch (modem is connected to the switch) the 6th computer will not get an IP address. The only way to clear this table is to unplug the power from it.

[Lord Orwell]

The last broadband i used was Insight Communications. Currently their system is set up to where you are required to use their modem, and it's against their terms of service to use a router. The only way to use their service legally on more than one computer is internet connection sharing with two network cards. However, using a router that clones your computer's mac address works. I am quite positive of these facts. I had multiple computers and every OS on the main computer worked on the internet (redhat, 2k, xp) but if i hooked the other one up, it wouldn't work. However when i used a cloned mac address router, they both worked.

Why do you suppose the option exists to clone a mac address? It is precisely for this reason. Some internet providers record it and use it for authentication.

[dbasnett]

I don't know of any service providers that enforce "against their terms of service to use a router" unless you have a commercial enterprise.

Attach a router to your providers demarc (cable modem, DSL, etc.). It always makes things easier. If they give you a hard time just tell them to cancel your service, you'll find a company less greedy.

[k1ll3rdr4g0n]

The last broadband i used was Insight Communications. Currently their system is set up to where you are required to use their modem, and it's against their terms of service to use a router. The only way to use their service legally on more than one computer is internet connection sharing with two network cards. However, using a router that clones your computer's mac address works. I am quite positive of these facts. I had multiple computers and every OS on the main computer worked on the internet (redhat, 2k, xp) but if i hooked the other one up, it wouldn't work. However when i used a cloned mac address router, they both worked.

Why do you suppose the option exists to clone a mac address? It is precisely for this reason. Some internet providers record it and use it for authentication.

Funny, I just called them up and they claim you are allowed to use routers.
So, whoever fed you that line was lying through their teeth. Also, if properly configured, no one will know that you have a router plugged in, the MAC address will probably reveal that its a linksys device, but it could be a linksys ethernet card and not a router.

What you are explaining to me is that once you unplugged a new device into it, it didn't work. But, when you cloned the MAC address of the old machine it worked. This is due to a table that is stored on the modem, like I said previously, it keeps track of all devices plugged into it. I bet any money if you pulled the power from it and plugged another computer into it, it will work fine. Because pulling the power from it will erase this table and will be waiting for a device to be plugged in. And since you only seem to have a 1 IP address package, the modem will only recognize one device; the first device that gets plugged in.

[Lord Orwell]

so you think their terms haven't changed in the last three years? It changed the last time they raised their rates, exactly the same time i quit using them. I also used my own cable modem then instead of theirs. that's why i had to read them the mac address. They no longer allow new accounts to "bring-your-own-modem" because of two reasons:
1. Increased income from modem rental
2. everyone uses same hardware so tech support is easier.

And no trust me their network is set up in such a way that they use your mac address for authentication. You don't enter passwords. You don't enter user names. Your IP is dynamically obtained and i turned the modem off every time i shut the computer off so i would get a fresh IP. Without the router, the computer that the modem was originally connected to was the only one the modem would work with, no matter how many times i unhooked and hooked it up.
If you went through the trouble to call Insight Communications (and i am assuming you called the one in Evansville where i got my service from since there are probably differences in service among the different branches), then all you had to do while you were on the phone was ask them a couple of details about how their internet service is authenticated.
Also: Yes they do have a different account for business users. The only real difference is the upload speed.

Also, when i got a new computer, i had to call them and give them the new mac address for the new computer before the modem would work with it.

And FINALLY, Your data on pppoe is wrong.

PPPoE Stages

The PPPoE has two distinct stages:

[edit] PPPoE Discovery

Since traditional PPP connections are established between two end points over a serial link or over an ATM virtual circuit that has already been established during dial-up, all PPP frames sent on the wire are sure to reach the other end. But Ethernet networks are multi-access where each node in the network can access every other node. Ethernet packets contain the hardware address of the destination node (MAC address) encoded in the packet. This helps the packet reach the intended destination.

Hence before exchanging PPP control packets to establish the connection over Ethernet, the MAC address of the two end points should be known to each other so that they can be encoded in these control packets. The PPPoE Discovery stage does exactly this. In addition it also helps establish a Session Id that can be used for further exchange of packets.

[edit] PPP Session

Once the MAC address of the peer is known and a session has been established, the two end points have all the information needed to start building a point-to-point connection over ethernet and exchange packets over the connection. This next stage after Discovery is called the Session stage.

[edit] PPPoE Discovery (PPPoED)

that is from this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-t..._over_Ethernet