I need advice please!

[voidflux]

Hello everyone.

I'm still in school and currently co-oping with IBM and I have been for 7 months.

I would really like a job where I'm coding all the time. The title of my current job is "Software Engineer" and I have been coding some but not all the time.

Very little people even get to code at IBM, its like 90% of everyone is doing test or automation which I don't want to do.

Are all jobs like this? Where your not doing Software Devlopment?

At my job I really want to keep expanding my programming skills and knowledge and currently I'm not.

I learned 1 new langauge (ReXX) and did 1 Java Network program, and did alot of coding in ReXX now. I'm also doing alot of mainframe stuff with z/OS.

But still its not the devlopment I was hoping for.
I was hoping to be working with more high level things such as C++ or Java/JSF/JSP or .net stuff.

If I keep co-oping with IBM I'll be stuck in this department (Tivoli) which does more mainframe applications (meaning low level coding which I don't like)

But If I try to move to another department in IBM my manager said it would be really hard for me to get back at his department or get rehired at his department full time.

Also if I go to another company and internship he said it would look bad on my part showing I wasn't loving what I was doing at IBM which is true, i'm not exactly.


So what should I do? Just keep working at IBM and get hired there for a first job and then just devlope my skills on my own and look for another job while having a secure job at IBM?

or should I look for other company's to co-op with while i'm at school and loose the security that I will be hired when I graduate?

[RobDog888]

Not all "Software Development" is like that at all. I think they just have their department skewed a bit as it sounds more of a QA Tester.

It almost sounds like your dept manager is afraid of you leaving his dept and may be using a scare tactic to keep you in place.

If you leave a position for growth and anything like increased responsibilities/pay then its a positive as you are looking for self improvement and growth. You just want to put in at least a year at a single place to show that you are solid and arent going to jump at the next job that comes along.

[voidflux]

Thanks RobDog!

That was very helpful.

[RobDog888]

Np, glad to help.

Also, just remember to try to view things from an employers point of view. They dont want to invest training and time into a person that is not going to stay with them for some cost effect amount of time. If I was interviewing someone and it seemed that they may pickup and take a better job after a few months then I would bypass them altogether.

Employers are like women. Always wanting a commitment

[Shaggy Hiker]

Frankly, I think your manager is pretty much aware that you are not happy there already, so he can't seriously expect you to be dreaming about a full-time position there. That makes me think that RD is entirely correct in suggesting that he is trying to guilt/scare you into sticking around, which at least suggests that you are doing a fair job. As to whether you should jump ship....I don't really have much advice on that. After all, if your manager knows you are not happy there, what do you show by sticking around for six months? A year? Two years? All it shows to HIM is that you can be manipulated to his ends, but it doesn't necessarily show all that much to anyone else. It's experience, nothing more. If you tell an employer what you expect in a job, then they will have some idea whether they have a job you'd be content in or not.

[voidflux]

Thanks for the advice!

I am getting experience which is good but its just not helping me get to the type of work I'd like to be doing.

Its like I'm getting experience in exactly what I wouldn't want to be doing as a full time job.

But it still will look good on a resume I suppose.

I just recently am transferring to NC State so I'm in desperate need of money to pay for tuition and stuff so I'll stick it out until I can find another internship/co-op.

He also said next co-op I will be doing something totally different, so hopefully it will be more high level and less mainframe stuff.

[RobDog888]

Press him for details on what you will be doing. It may be something that you'd like. Just remember that "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

[voidflux]

Thats true Rob,

When I get rehired in the summer I'll tell him my concerns and how I would like to work with "newer" technology if its possible.

One of my friends is getting hired after this semester and he told the manager straight up, I do not want to be a tester, I want to be a Software Engineer and be in devlopment.

He then told him of course, your a good coder you need to be in devlopment.

So later on he asks again, and he told him well I do the hiring but really you'll be under a bigger manager, so whatever position is in need at the time your hired you'll be assigned too, so he totally went back on his word.

So if no coders are needed in development he'll be put on maintenance of mainframes or testing and automation which is what he didn't want.

He's considering of not even accepting the letter and going to CISCO or some other smaller company.

[RobDog888]

Have you considered applying at other companies that are smaller? Cisco is still large and its always hard to get into them. I see allot of positions for programmers at all kinds of places like banks, mortgage companies, insurance etc.

plus the smaller companies pay just as much if not more and may work with part timers etc to work around your school.

[voidflux]

Thats true and the issue with IBM is its really hard to get noticed and to get raises but in a small company everyone knows your name type of deal.

Do you work for a smaller, medium or large company if you don't mind me asking.

[RobDog888]

I work for a small company, my own

I used to work for a few companies in the past and all were smaller. The pay was just as good, benefits a little less but easier to get in and noticed big time. One of the owners at my previous job a few years ago got kind of mad when he found out I turned in my 2 weeks notice (he was on vacation and after a week he returned). I guess its cuz he wanted to counter with a raise of a couple of bucks. I told him that I know they cant afford it and it would still be an issue in a few years again. Even if he came back with a $10/hr raise it wouldnt be enough to keep me there.

I'm making more now on my own now and I get to work from home, no traffic, and make my own hours. For me, its what works and whats needed for now.

[voidflux]

That would be nice.

The pay is good here, I'm making around 22.50 as a co-op and I hear the starting salary isn't bad but I hear after that its hard to advance in rank.

I read some horror stories here:
http://www.allianceibm.org/salarycomments.php


but one guy said:
Comment 10/05/07:
Salary = 92k
Band Level = 8
Job Title = Adv Software Engg
Years Service = 4
Hours/Week = 40
Div Name = SWG
Location = RTP
Message =
What are you all complaining about!!! Where else can someone make 92k with 4 years of experience after college!! Just IBM! Quit whining. Maybe all you old geysers need to ramp up on your skills and stay current with the latest technology and maybe you all will still be employed! -Uber Geek-

So i'm not sure who to believe but alot I heard depends on your manager, if he doesn't "go to bat" for you, you'll stay at your pay forever.

The one thing that is cool about IBM is they let you work from home and just remote connect. They also don't care what hours you come in it could be midnight or 8:00am.


But I think I'm going to in the end do the following:
Comment 10/08/07: To Loller: if you have a BS or BA degree, you'll usually get hired at Band 6. A graduate degree could probably get you a band 7. A grad degree + relevant work experience may get you a Band 8. Promotions do indeed depend a lot on your manager. If he doesn't "go to bat" for you, you'll languish at your band and won't move up. My advice: if the IBM offer is competitive when you graduate, join and stay for a year or two to get the name on your resume, then move on. IBM today is but a shadow of its former self. -Anonymous-


Comment 09/17/07:
Here is the monthly salary survey update:
Band 2: 4 respondents, avg: $36K, standard deviation: $9K, range: (min/max reported): $24K to $42K
Band 3: 1 respondent, $25K Band 4: 11 respondents, avg: $46K, standard deviation: $11K, range: $32K to $60K
Band 5: 3 respondents, avg: $58K, standard deviation: $16K, range: $48K to $77K
Band 6: 30 respondents, avg: $61K, std dev: $9K, range: $41.9K to $79K
Band 7: 63 respondents, avg: $71K, std dev: $13K, range: $49K to $110K
Band 8: 64 respondents, avg: $98K, std dev: $16K, range: $55K to $130K
Band 9: 30 respondents, avg: $118K, std dev: $17K, range: $89K to $152K
Band 10: 11 respondents, avg: $148K, std dev: $25K, range: $107K to $190K

It has been reported that the "official" range for
- band 6 is 39.5K to 80.3K
- band 7 is 53.4K to 108.5K
- band 8 (Software Engineer, 01A) is 60K to 144K
Bands 1-5 are non-exempt (overtime-eligible) while bands 6-10 are exempt. -Anonymous-


I'm not sure how much other people make at their job but is this good or can you make just as much at a smaller company?

[RobDog888]

Average salary is about $50-70K (starting full time) and of course the more school/degrees you have along with experience, the more you will make.

Seems like a good pay schedule but you have to get in and figure on staying at a particular pay schedule for awhile.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Did he really call people geysers? Sounds like people are just gushing over that job.

[voidflux]

LOL nice Shaggy,

yah he did say that, they flipped out on him of course, a lot of rude people on that site but they are mainly angry workers who just got fired or laid off or aren't getting paid near enough.

Thanks for the help guys!

[FunkyDexter]

Sounds like he was just blowing off steam. Shouldn't have got hot under the collar about it though,.

I found myself in almost exactly the same situation when I took a year out from my degree. The company I worked for interviewed me for a development position and gave me a job title of Junior Developer (Intern). Then they stuck me QA for the whole year. Eventually I kicked up enough stink for them to give me a small development project but I was expected to carry on doing the QA. In truth I was just cheap labour. I saw out the year so it'd look good on my CV then left and never looked back. Incidentally, my CV reads "Junior Developer Intern" and accentuates the development more than the QA but stops short of dishonesty for the period In all it hasn't hurt my career any.

My advice would be to stick out the year if you think you can stand it, if not, don't worry about it. Contrary to what your boss (who sounds a bit of a ******, by the way) says, 7 months isn't short enough to act as a black mark against you when applying to other companies unless you've got 2 or 3 of them in turn. That said, a year long position will look much better.