[SERIOUS] Training bonding

[Fishcake]

Hi,

I've been asked to go on a training course but my work has a policy that if you attend any training and then leave within 2 years you have to pay back the cost of the training.

However this training isn't anything that will help me in the future and is essential to me working here as it concerns a new inhouse intranet system.

So i don't want to sign the "training bonding" form as it seems wrong to me that I have to go on this course to continue working here and yet doing so will tie me here for another 2 years. Surely that's against employment law?

[Torc]

Some questions you might want to ask.

Would you keep your job if you did not attend?
How long is the course?
Do they give you a cost for the course?

I do not know if it is against employment law, but I thought that policies only
applied to external training; training for an inhouse system, particularly if it
has been developed and is maintained inhouse, has not applied in my
experience.

The policy as you have explained it does not tie you to working there for
another two years, unless they are charging an exceptional amount for the
training.

If they tell you it is necessary to keep your job then you might want to consider whether it could be unfair dismissal.

[FunkyDexter]

I faced exactly this situation a couple of years ago. The company had a clause in their contract that said they'd charge me something like £500/day for training if I left within two years and then wanted me to attend a two week course as soon as I started. I refused to sign the contract and eventually they backed down and added an addendum to the contract exempting me from the original clause (this was when I was considering taking the job rather than already employed).

It did leave a bad taste though and I was made redundant (for which read 'dismissed without cause') 6 months later.

It's not illegal but I would suggest that a company that needs to lock you in is quite likely not worth working for in the first place. Of course, once you've signed the contract you've agreed to be bound by it's terms. In that case I would quickly seek some legal advice before the training course starts.

[oceanebelle]

I faced exactly this situation a couple of years ago. The company had a clause in their contract that said they'd charge me something like £500/day for training if I left within two years and then wanted me to attend a two week course as soon as I started. I refused to sign the contract and eventually they backed down and added an addendum to the contract exempting me from the original clause (this was when I was considering taking the job rather than already employed).

It did leave a bad taste though and I was made redundant (for which read 'dismissed without cause') 6 months later.

It's not illegal but I would suggest that a company that needs to lock you in is quite likely not worth working for in the first place. Of course, once you've signed the contract you've agreed to be bound by it's terms. In that case I would quickly seek some legal advice before the training course starts.

Yeah so I feel. Like here, get assigned to japan, and get locked for another year. lucky i did not sign any contract for this particular assignment. i wonder though, because being assigned here in japan doesn't have anything special in it, you just become workaholic and more workaholic and getting more and more underpaid. I am beginning to see that now, and I am not liking what it is doing to my time.

In phils, there is a document that says if i sign up for 6 months i will get "additional" incentive, and if i resign within that period, I would have to pay back 2 month's worth of salary. IF i don't sign, I will not get that "additional" incentive... what is weird though is that i got promoted however the additional compensation is put against this "additional" incentive... I don't know everything just doesn't feel right nowadays. I am just holding out my 9 months more assignment. Then after that we shall see where I land afterwards.

[FunkyDexter]

additional compensation is put against this "additional" incentive

Now that's seriously sneaky

One additional thought, Fishcake, Apart from their ability to claw back a portion of your last months salary, clauses like this are pretty much un-enforcable.

[Fishcake]

Thanks for the responses everyone, lots of food for thought. I've arranged a meeting with HR this afternoon so lets see...

[timeshifter]

Chances are the company I work for will want to send me to training, and that will likely put me in the same position that you're in... either get locked into the job for x period of time or pay back the cost of the training. The difference is, this is a small company, and they'll only send me to trainings that are actually required to better do my job. ASP, SQL, VB, server and network stuff... things I get paid to do anyway. And considering I actually like what I do, I wasn't planning on leaving the company to begin with.

But that's my position... you have to do what you think is best for you. If the training they want to give you is useless to the nature of your job, then bring that up. Tell them that they're just throwing away money where they could be sending you to something that'll benefit them in the long run.

[Fishcake]

That's my issue. The training is for a new intranet/workflow system we are implementing. The company is also becoming a reseller for this product and we will need to develop in it to deliever to clients.

Therefore I will need to do the course to be effective in my role. However I have no interest in developing in this product and attending the course isn't going to be useful to me unless I go and work for the company that make this product (i can't really mention the name as we are currently the only reseller to join with them.

I would have no issue with the clause if it was to further progress me in C# or something.

The MD is very keen for my department to get behind this product and for it to become the bulk of our work (moving away from bespoke C#/sql server projects), so i may want to leave if this actually becomes reality. Although I do really enjoy working here.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Fake your own signature on the form, and do so really badly. Then, if they ever try to force you to pay it back, you can point out that it clearly isn't your signature on the document.

Ok, that's pretty sleazy, but when you get right down to it, if you refuse to pay them back once you leave, what are they going to do? A few hundred bucks isn't even worth the court time they'd have to go through to recoup the losses if you told them to piss off. Sure, they might garnish any outstanding pay they still owed you, but all you have to do is factor that into the cost of moving. Not pleasant, but plannable.

[Fishcake]

After discussing this, I've managed to get to a situation where I only have to pay back half the amount of the training and then instead of being repayable for 2 years the amount I would pay back drops by half every 6 months, so that's not too bad as the original agreement would've been £5000 if i left within 2 years.

I still haven't signed yet though......





But i think i will.

[penagate]

the amount I would pay back drops by half every 6 months

Does that mean you'll be forever in debt?

[tommygrayson]

After discussing this, I've managed to get to a situation where I only have to pay back half the amount of the training and then instead of being repayable for 2 years the amount I would pay back drops by half every 6 months, so that's not too bad as the original agreement would've been £5000 if i left within 2 years.

I still haven't signed yet though......





But i think i will.

No you should not settle for halfway.

You did not deserve to pay them anything because your objective to your work is to get paid not pay them.

These kinds of companies are very sneaky. They impose that kind of bond because the pay is so small and they are very insecure you will find out eventually within 2 years.

If I were you, do not work with these companies if the bond is 2 years.

Work with them if they made it to 6 months.

[oceanebelle]

I agree.

[Fishcake]

Does that mean you'll be forever in debt?

Yep, until the amount becomes so small that even modern day calculating machines can't cope with it.

[Fishcake]

No you should not settle for halfway.

You did not deserve to pay them anything because your objective to your work is to get paid not pay them.

These kinds of companies are very sneaky. They impose that kind of bond because the pay is so small and they are very insecure you will find out eventually within 2 years.

If I were you, do not work with these companies if the bond is 2 years.

Work with them if they made it to 6 months.

To be honest I've noticed already, looking around most jobs doing what i do for my experience are advertised in the region of £5k-£15k more than I get paid.