Schools teaching VB .Net wrong?

[Atheist]

Yet again some guy here on vbforums asked for help with school assignments, where his teacher had told him to use old stuff that doesnt really teach any .Net programming, but just old VB6 code.
Ive seen this so many times now, and experienced it myself when I had "VB .Net lessons" in school.

Teachers teach their students to use the Randomize() function, FileOpen, Len(), mid().
It just irritates me...surely a programming teacher must now better than to educate the wrong language.


Why is it like this you think?

[penagate]

Because student demand exceeds the availability of competent teaching staff. Always has, and most likely always will; it's a vicious cycle.

[RobDog888]

I think its more of an issue about teachers not being up up on basic knowledge. With technology you need to learn the new stuff or the old stuff you know becomes obsolite. Who wants to learn BASIC or VB 1.0?

[mendhak]

Wait a few more years, until VS 2009, for the academic knowledge of VB.NET 1.1 to reach proper standards.

[Merrion]

A teacher is in the business of teaching the fundamentals of programming, not the specifics of a given language and it happens that VB6 is often the most approachable for doing just that.

[RobDog888]

The students can teach the teachers when it comes to technology, especially in the US. Too many old timers and they dont like change. So you know that means teach more of the old as they dont take any time to learn the new. Its not until you get to college where the professors actually know the stuff. But by then its too late, your behind everyone else and have to try to catch up. Solution: come on over to VBF

[penagate]

A teacher is in the business of teaching the fundamentals of programming, not the specifics of a given language and it happens that VB6 is often the most approachable for doing just that.

In a VB.NET class, though?

[RobDog888]

Yes, that is like teaching a science class but teaching things like "The world is flat"

[Hack]

And....many teachers are just teachers....they have never actually used the product they are teaching in the real world. Unfortunately, their knowledge of the platform comes from reading text books.

[Atheist]

Goes to show many teachers arent even properly educated. Bah.

[Slaine]

Pick up any text book on Vb.Net and you will find (in the majority of cases) that they don't teach you how to programme 'properly'. This knowledge only comes from real world application.

Unfortunately the teachers get their knowledge from the text books, not real world use.

Hence the disparity.

[RobDog888]

They should make it a teaching requirement that they have so many years of real world experience.

[Hack]

They should make it a teaching requirement that they have so many years of real world experience.

I agree with this, but I'm not sure how realistic it is.

I know quite a few very experienced programmers who couldn't teach someone how to tie their shoes.

[RobDog888]

Well I was thinking more of an intership or something. Similar to the way they require internships for doctors.

[tylerm]

I'm a senior in high school and never had a chance to take any programming classes (That I hadn't already taught myself.)

It's so true that teachers don't really know what their teaching. I was an assitant for a web design/programming teacher. They actually used Netscape Composer and books from 1999 for teaching in 2005. It's incredible. And at the end of the day, the code still didn't meet standards.

I only learned after reading tutorials and samples submitted by actual programmers who did it for a living and of course, being involved in VBF alot.

I'm also an intern for a state IT agency where I live and I learned hundreds of thousands of new things in the year and half I've been here. Internships are the way to go for expanding your knowledge. Most of the time if you have real work expierence, you don't need the degrees.

[Al42]

They should make it a teaching requirement that they have so many years of real world experience.

Rob, the majority of teachers in the US get teaching degrees, then become teachers. They do "internships" as teachers, learning how to teach. (It's an art - I have trouble teaching people.)

If we eliminated all teachers who had no real world experience tomorrow, most of the schools in the country would be closed not only next week, but for about twice as long as the experience period you want - one time for them to get the experience and a second time for a new crop of teachers, because at least half of those out in the real world wouldn't want to take the pay cut to go back to teaching.

[RobDog888]

Rob, the majority of teachers in the US get teaching degrees, then become teachers. They do "internships" as teachers, learning how to teach. (It's an art - I have trouble teaching people.)

Well I was thinking more of an intership or something. Similar to the way they require internships for doctors.

I know that once you get out there and are being paid its very hard to go back. I know how hard it is for teachers to do all they do for the little money they get paid, thats the problem and doesnt seem to be getting fixed anytime soon.

[RobDog888]

I'm a senior in high school and never had a chance to take any programming classes (That I hadn't already taught myself.)

It's so true that teachers don't really know what their teaching. I was an assitant for a web design/programming teacher. They actually used Netscape Composer and books from 1999 for teaching in 2005. It's incredible. And at the end of the day, the code still didn't meet standards.

I only learned after reading tutorials and samples submitted by actual programmers who did it for a living and of course, being involved in VBF alot...

I was in a similar situation when I was in college. The only programming class I ever took and it was a joke. I didnt even have any work experience in the field and I ended up teaching the class.

It was at that point that I realized I had a talent for it and would make it my career.

[eSPiYa]

Here in our country, I've come across w/ a school where all of their teachers are working part-time for them and full-time as developers/IT specialists.
I asked them if I can apply as a part-time teacher there too even if I'm an undergraduate BSCS student and I'm glad they ask me to submit my CV.

I'll finish my remaining project and I'll apply for the position.

[TwoyTaylor]

Deleted By User.

[Al42]

Bitter is an inherent property of the class "old man".

[Hack]

Off-topic often becomes a property of the class "thread".

We discourage that, however.

[TwoyTaylor]

Well, it is not so much that he seems to teach it incorrectly, he just does not teach much. He sort of fumbles around a few principles every once in a while, and then assigns us programs to write. Considering that we do not get taught much in the class room, it most often becomes nothing but trial, error, and web search. So rather than us learning the logic, we spend unjustified amounts of time fumbling around (as a result of his fumbling) until we get a "finished" product that sort of does what we were told to make it do.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Well, it is not so much that he seems to teach it incorrectly, he just does not teach much. He sort of fumbles around a few principles every once in a while, and then assigns us programs to write. Considering that we do not get taught much in the class room, it most often becomes nothing but trial, error, and web search. So rather than us learning the logic, we spend unjustified amounts of time fumbling around (as a result of his fumbling) until we get a "finished" product that sort of does what we were told to make it do.

Welcome to programming!!

I was always too early to take any programming classes. They became mandatory for the year after mine in HS, and the year after mine in college. Thus I avoided them all. The result of this is that I was entirely self-taught, and became a biologist who programmed as a hobby. I'd have to say that I had been watching this forum for a few months before I began to believe that I actually was doing what everybody else was doing, rather than just making things up as I went along. I also realized that everybody can learn from the experience of others, or else they will spend inordinate amounts of time re-inventing wheels.

You can't really be taught how to program, just like you can't be taught how to think (I could take a swipe at conservatives here, but they wouldn't get it). Programming is an art. A person can teach you what paints are, and they can teach you how to combine paints and techniques to achieve different hues and textures, but they can't teach you how to paint. I tried painting for a few years, and came to the conclusion that I absolutely suck. I can look at a painting of a tree, and say, "that's a good painting of a tree." I can also look at a painting of a tree closely, and see the brush strokes, but I still can't paint a tree. Similarly, you can learn loops, conditionals, branches, variables, objects, etc, but that won't make you a programmer.

Ultimately, it is the fumbling around that so concerns you that will make you a programmer. And if the members of this forum are any indication, it also requires a love of painting pictures with logic. Even a boring DB front end can have something brilliant in it. If you like to see it take shape, then don't worry too much about fumbling around. Fumble enough, and you will be a programmer.

Your teacher may be a bitter old man, or he may believe that either you have the ability or you don't. He's giving you the tools, and waiting for you to determine whether or not you have the ability. It may not be "teaching", but I'm not sure that it is wrong, either.

[TwoyTaylor]

I agree. I can definitely see how it cant be taught. You cant teach logic. But its another issue if you aren't even being taught what paint is, ha. But I'm getting along fine. Not to get off subject, but I finished that other project. I made a 100.