Greetings fellow programmers! I have started to create my own operating system. In this thread I will talk about the options that the OS will have. I am also trying to recruit some programmers that are able to help me in creating this OS.
- Graphical User Interface(GUI). Windows is a GUI so that it is user-friendly. A GUI is useful as it helps to increase productivity and helps newbies to the system.
- Multi-Tasking/Multi-Threaded. Multitasking / Multithreading allows many programs to be run at once. DOS is single-threaded, Windows is multi-threaded.
- Virtual Memory. If your system doesn't have enough system memory(RAM) to do a certain task, Windows uses it's Virtual Memory system to create more. Virtual memory systems use Hard Disk space as extra RAM for the system.
- Hardware access features. An Operating System should be able to access the hardware at a very low level. This includes disk access to find out how much space the Hard Disk/Floppy Disk has total and how much it has left. This includes RAM to see how much RAM is left/total. Hardware also includes CPU Identification.
- Plug 'n' Play/Hardware Auto-detect. This is an important feature as it allows the OS to identify any new hardware that the user had installed.
- Display. A full-color OS/GUI should be able to access the videomodes right? Every card has different mode numbers. Most cards are VESA compatible meaning that some where, they have VESA modes similar on ALL cards.
Now into my OS itself. It will definately have a GUI. I will add Virtual Memory support so the users will have enough RAM. Plug 'n' Play is a must these days so I'll use Plug 'n' Play as well. I'll have hardware access features to find out info on HDD/FDD/RAM space. For compatibility with video cards, I will use the VESA modes.
Well, I REALLY need help making this Operating system. I would appreciate ANY help. If you have any source code of anything that I could use (Memory access, PnP, hardware detect, driver source code) please post it here for others to use as well. If it's too big to attach, send it to my Email. I have attached a file containing a picture that I have drawn showing what it will look like(This'll change... ALOT), and a couple icons. Enjoy
Well one thing i always wanted to see in widows was a light source so that all of the windows cast a shadow from a central point on or off of the screen.
Also i was wandering if after you did this project if you were interested in an idea i had but did not have the time to do it.
It is an OS that is run on a game engine so to actually get to a file you have to travel to a virtual location in the engine
Maybe... But it would take quite a bit of CPU power to render the shadows. Just remember, we can't use DirectX(or OpenGL) in this, we'll have to design our own 3D API.
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
I have created the first font for my OS. It's actually an immitation(somewhat) of Window's "System" font. There are over 200 bitmaps in the following .ZIP file. There is a BMP for each character. The way these fonts will work is these little bitmaps will be put side by side(according to the txt file in the archive) into 1 huge bitmap. This will be loaded/broken up(@runtime) into separate variables. Then, they can be displayed on the screen as many times as needed/where ever needed. Sound good? I NEED feedback/help/suggestions on this OS.
From now on, my OS will be refered to as CTOS-Comtech Operating System(I'll start a company called Comtech). Enough of that, here's some of my hard work
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
Hey there.. thanks for the reply in the other thread...
What I wanted to see your OS for is HOW you did the VESA.. but I just figured out that you are using DOS calls
and so your OS is DOS based. I didn't know this.
I and my partner are also making our own OS. It's named LOS. LCARS Operating System. (LCARS - Library
Computer Access Retrieval System) The LCARS idea is taken from the Ship panels on the TV show Star Trek. What
they thought up as fantasy, we are making a reality. We already have a Windows Version, and in the next
update, it will have Voice recognition.
But, our OS is what our REAL pride and joy will be once we begin. (Technically we have already begun, but there is
a LOT more to creating an OS from scratch then just writting it.) We have raw boot code and it boots straight in.
However, the next step is the interface. We are haveing it boot STRAIGHT into our GUI. (LCARS Look and feel).
Once it brings up the screen, then it does it's diagnostics and loads the drivers or what ever it needs at that point.
This is a TOTAL GUI. We have experience in C and ASM. But what we can't find are info on HOW inerrupt 21
utuilizes the BIOS when needed. You see, INT21 is a DOS call, say for example INT10 is a BIOS call. Well, when we
make our OS, it will not be a MS-DOS envirenment. So we need to create our own Interrupts so to speak. We
have already begun. But there is SOOO much.
So, this brings me to you. When I saw that you were making an OS and had already past the point of the BIOs,
we wanted to know HOW you were READING and WRITTING to the BIOs. But, I see you are using DOS calls. So it
may not help us. But I would still love to see what you have as far as the BIOs is concerned. Any chance of this
happening soon? We are trying to find anything that can help us in our venture.
This is just one of MANY places where you can get the list of "Ralph Brown's Interrupt list". It's very
informative. It also describes what you can do to each interrupt.
Yes, my OS is DOS based. But, the only reason I'm using DOS is to initialize the machine itself and set-up a workable platform.
Knight_Vision, CTOS will also be a GUI. A GUI built ontop of DOS(Windows is basically a DOS-Shell). Here is the solution to ALL of your VESA problems. Here is a thread I've previously started:
It's got some VESA source code in C to help you out as well as a link to the VESA homepage( www.vesa.org ).
The interupts that I am using right now are 0x10(video int), 0x33(Mouse int), CMOS(can't recall actual interupts right now), 0x13(I think that's the 1 for disks), and what's the one for RAM access? I need that 1. I need to find out how to find out how much RAM is free and how much is total.
A unique feature of CTOS is it's ability to access the contents of the CMOS chip to save/restore it incase it gets cleared.
KrishnaSantosh, please post that kernel of yours here. If it's too big, email it to me.
No offence is intended in this post but erm, do you know how much it costs MS each time they write a new version of windows. Usually about 2 billion dollers. And thats not starting from scratch (with a few exceptions like win2000), but going from an existing code base. What are you writting this OS in, VB (lol).
I must correct you Warmaster199 on something. Windows is not a dos gui. Windows 3.1 and all windows before that basically were, but windows 95 onwards is not. For a start, they are 32 bit. Yes, they started with yhr dos code and went from there but that doest mean that it is still dos coz it ist. And, window 2000 was from scratch (and possible nt too but im not sure), and the next version of windows which will be a replacement for both win9x and winNT/2000 will be based on the win2000 code base. You might think i am droning on a bit but i have heard several people make this mistake and it annoys me. If you have a lump of clay and you mould it into a pot and then heat it and glase it, is it still a lump of clay? No of course it is't.
One other question to you OS writters, are your OS's going to run windows or dos programs or something? Coz if not, who is going to write the software for it? And if so, i would guess that that is a breach of copyright.
I dont particularly like the windows shell but i use it coz i dislike all the others that people have written even more. Perhaps some of you should attempt to write a windows shell instead, because (not that i am insulting your programming abilities) writting an OS is a mamoth task.
As i said, this post is not ment to offend, i just had to post on this thread coz i couldt help laughing when i read it. Sorry.
You could help laughing??? Well... Us OS developers will show you who will have the last laugh. And yes, Windows 9x is a DOS-SHELL!!! It's built using DOS as a base. It runs over-top of DOS. THEREFORE, IT IS A SHELL OF DOS, not a whole new OS. Think about it. I read it in a LINUX article.
$2 billion!? Ha! Windows needed probably 100's of people to create it, that's why it costs so much. It's was dev'd over the course of a whole year(or 2), remember? The OS's discussed in this thread are about OS's that WE(the single developers/small groups).
You thought I was making CTOS in VB??? Get real!!! You need Windows for that! CTOS is not based on Windows itself, It's based upon DOS(So is windows). Will Our OS's run Windows programs? Probably not. But they will be able to run DOS programs.
Now then, before I get carried away... More dev talk about OS's(mainly my CTOS).
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
First of all, who said that this was going to be in VB???? It is going to be in C and ASM. And yes, this is a very large and complicated project that we are doing. Does that mean it can't be done? Of course not. Look at Linus Torvalds. He was in college when he wrote Linux and it certainly didn't cost him $2 billion.
I don't see what is so funny about this. You think we are just a bunch of retards who don't have a clue about writing programs? Well we do have a clue and we KNOW how hard it will be to make this work. So instead of laughing at us, why don't you post something positive or not post anything at all.
Seen as tho Cybrg641 has told me off already for posting on this thread, this will be my last post on it and as i cant be bothered to get stuck in a long argument.
The example you gave on Linus Torval has quite a few differences to your situation. For a start, Linux was not a massive hit at first. Secondly, it was years ago. Im sure i dont need to tell you how fast the IT industry moves. At the time compared to now, the P.C. market was nothing. Linux was targeted at a very specific niche in the market. Setting up cheap realiable servers. Just what niche market is it you are targeting.
As for the issue as to weather or not Windows 9X is a gui or a new OS, well i have already stated the facts. I dont know what else i can say seen as tho you are disregarding everything i say just because i forced you to look at your idea from a realistic perspective. Thefore, why dont you go to a search engine and look it up for yourself, or buy a book on it.
And last but not least, theres the software problem. You said you would use DOS software. Well, companies stoped writing serious DOS programs long ago, which will mean, even if your users manage to get that hands on some DOS software that was considered to be good, it will be totally out of date now. And someone was going on about Plug and Play earlier. Before you start thinking about have plug and play functionality, dont you think you should first address the idea of actually get DOS drivers for things made within the last 5 years. ow many of the modems, 3d cards, printers etc have DOS drivers today. In order for anyone to actually use this OS they will have to downgrade to P75's with 14.4 modems!!!
But alas, I effort in educating you will be all to waste as i am quite sure that instead of thinking how to address these problems i have enlightened you to, you will expend the effort into tring to argu and insult.
Actually... You are wrong... I have decided that I shall put all of my programming expertise into CTOS. To me, my decision is final... Nothing you can say with get me to stop CTOS. Not now especially because quite a few people are now looking forward to CTOS.
It seems to me that you are dissing everything we say in this thread, just because you don't like our ideas.
I have looked at my CTOS project at ALL angles. every angle seems(is) workable.
You say that OS's are too hard of a project. There has got to be 100's of different OS's out there. Most are made by people like me. You don't give up.
You say we'll have to downgrade? I don't think so! I'll create new drivers. Just you see!
You say there are no drivers? duh... I have to make them, stupid! Enough of this! If you can't say a positive comment, DON'T SAY IT!!!
Now... continuing with the OS dev talk, PLEASE!!!
Last edited by Warmaster199; Mar 21st, 2001 at 10:19 PM.
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
Ok, I am not going to get into the battle that seems to be brewing here. But I have to state a couple of facts.
Since I have the source code of the bootstrap to 95b, I have seen that it does bootup as a 16 bit boot, then it transfers over to 32 bit. Win95b is the actual first TRUE 32 Bit windows. The origonal 95 was only a 16 Bit OS. (Yes, I still have the software here in a drawer somewhere. heh...) From that point on, it has been using a DOS Kernal up tol WinME.
Windows is nothing but a GUI interface. DOS is still a shell. It's what loads the OS. In ME however, they changed that strategy. Microsoft is trying to accomplish what MAC did. And with the new WinXP that is comming out soon, (And yes, I have BETA tested it for a month) DOS is NOT being used. It's the FIRST TRUE 32-BIT OS loader. It's not using a 16-Bit Bootstrap like ME on down to 95 was doing.
NOTE : When I say DOS, i'm talking about it being 16-Bit, nothing more.
You can look everything up on the web and the MS website. There is TONS of info about this subject.
Also, I have the source to DOS 6.0. I have carefully examined it. Very interesting stuff. And I agree that those of us who are making our own OS, we are in for a long haul. But for me, it's a passion. I love creating my OS. Mine is also being able to boot straight into a GUI. That's what it's all about.
I use ASSEMBLER and C/C++. We however, are NOT using a DOS envirenoment. So our job is a LOT more complex but at least we can sell our OS and not have Copywrite laws to worry about. At least that's what the TWO lawfirms that are backing us up are telling us..
wahammer, You got ICQ ? 4239180. Get in touch with me, and we might be able to help each other if possible. No guarentees. But who knows...
Also, we use GCC as our compiler. With GCC we are making our OWN compiler so that others can make software for our OS. The Compiler will be free..
Knight-Vision, do you have X-Drive? Get an X-Drive(up to 100mb free) and put the source there. Then, tell us the username and pass so we can d/l the file on your X-Drive. Goto www.xdrive.com
Does anyone have any source code for getting memory info(free, avail[RAM]). Some CPU detect code would be great as well. I've got CPU detect code that detects up to 486, I would like to be able to detect Pentium, PII, PIII, AMD cpu, etc...
If anyone has any PnP code that would be great! I could just modify it a bit for CTOS and possibly add new stuff. It would be good if the PnP code could have a "New Hardware Detect" routine. All it basically does is send a message to all of the ports on your PC and waits for a response.
Also, the source for some CD-ROM drivers would be good as well. Both SCSI ASPI(advanced scsi programming interface) and IDE(integrated drive electronics) drivers would be great. Normal SCSI drivers would also help.
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
HAHAHA.. You guys really want that code ehh? Oook.. I'll send it to X-Drive if it can EVER upload to that server.. I'll do it sometime this week end.. I have someone hogging my bandwidth right now.. LOL
BTW - Warrhammer.. don't say I didn't come through for you..
Code:
The standard AT CMOS addresses from 00h to 3Fh are easy,
; Read CMOS
mov al,addr ; 'addr' ranges from 00h to 3Fh.
out 70h,al ; wakes up the port.
jmp $+2 ; a delay loop..
in al,71h ; reads CMOS.
; Write CMOS
mov al,addr ; 'addr' ranges from 00h to 3Fh.
out 70h,al ; wakes up the port.
jmp $+2 ; a delay loop..
out 71h, value ; Writes 'value' from 00h to FFh.
; note that 'addr' 10h to 20h are checksummed.
Some CMOS info...
addr contents
00h Seconds
01h Second Alarm
02h Minutes
03h Minute Alarm
04h Hours
05h Hour Alarm
06h Day of the Week
07h Day of the Month
08h Month
09h Year
0Ah Status Register A
0Bh Status Register B
0Ch Status Register C
0Dh Status Register D
0Eh Diagnostic Status Byte
0Fh Shutdown Status Byte
10h Disk Drive Type for Drives A: and B:
The drive-type bytes use bits 0:3 for the first
drive and 4:7 for the other disk drive types.
00h no drive present
01h double sided 360k
02h high capacity (1.2 meg)
03h-0Fh reserved
11h (AT):Reserved (PS/2):drive type for hard disk C:
12h (PS/2):drive type for hard disk D:
(AT, XT/286):hard disk type for drives C: and D:
Format of drive-type entry for AT, XT/286:
0 number of cyls in drive (0-1023 allowed)
2 number of heads per drive (0-15 allowed)
3 starting reduced write compensation (not used on AT)
5 starting cylinder for write compensation
7 max. ECC data burst length, XT only
8 control byte
Bit
7 disable disk-access retries
6 disable ECC retries
5-4 reserved, set to zero
3 more than 8 heads
2-0 drive option on XT (not used by AT)
9 timeout value for XT (not used by AT)
12 landing zone cylinder number
14 number of sectors per track (default 17, 0-17 allowed)
13h Reserved
14h Equipment Byte (corresponds to sw. 1 on PC and XT)
15h-16h Base Memory Size (low,high)
17h-18h Expansion Memory Size (low,high)
19h-20h Reserved
(PS/2) POS information Model 50 (60 and 80 use a 2k
CMOS RAM that is not accessible through software)
21h-2Dh Reserved (not checksumed)
2Eh-2Fh Checksum of Bytes 10 Through 20 (low,high)
30h-31h Exp. Memory Size as Det. by POST (low,high)
32h Date Century Byte
33h Information Flags (set during power-on)
34h-3Fh Reserved - Put Your Name Here.
I've sent the CTOS code(What I've got so far) to the X-Drive. I just wish someone would have some memory total/avail code I've got the multi-thread business for CTOS on the X-Drive as well. Every lunch hour at school, I work on CTOS and I work on it when my ma's at work(she hogs the comp). I've got my own comp(486-80MHz), but the monitor decides that it wants to shut-off when you want to use it. well, I gotta go now.
And Knight_Vision, the name's Warmaster
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
Hmmm... The source code I put on there is for CTOS. You can use graphicssys.cpp as that's basically the code I got from the VESA site with a couple add-ons.
I got my friend from school to start a membership here on vb-world. His name is Phill938 and he posted a thread in the C++ forum called "give me help".
1 more thing. Where do I get the RAR expander or whatever so I can actually see the files?
Last edited by Warmaster199; Mar 24th, 2001 at 10:15 AM.
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
I have found code to read/write(update) .INI or .CFG files! This is GREAT news as it means CTOS will be able to get settings that it will use when it boots! I also have CTOS's Threading system almost finished. It needs a _tiny_ bit of work. KrishnaSantosh, on your X-Drive, in the CTOS folder, I have put a text file for us all to say some more stuff on CTOS . I have found a little bit on finding the available memory, but I think it's only for conventional memory . I'll check into it. More updates coming soon
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
I forgot, I've got some code for the VFAT(windows) filesystem. It'll let CTOS use long filenames... If we can tidy up this code that I sent to the drive(vfat_003src.zip). It's LINUX code that's modified for OS/2 WARP. It looks pretty butchered-up(All LINUX code looks wierd to me, sorry ), so we'll need to fix the code in there and condense it into 2 files, a header, and a main file. I started but then got rid of it as I felt that I had nuked the code ( oops :O ). I would like to keep CTOS simple, so for each MAJOR thing(like a filesys or graphics stuff), I'de like to have 2 files, a header and a source. Once I've got an impressive library(API, drivers, etc...) together, I'll put together the OS start-up code so we can see a GUI coming along... I don't know if we should do this, but WHEN we start working on the GUI code, we SHOULD have handles for each window(like Windows does). This'll be to our advantage since we all know Windows programming so well...
PS: I did have the source to an MP3 decoder(player essentials) somwhere! I seem to have lost it I'll check for them later.
Warmaster199 (Brandon)
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
My next goal for CTOS is to have it's window system up and running by next weekend... So far, I havecreated the routines for drawing a window, but the routines still need a bit of fixing
What do you guys think of this??? Check out the attachment! I did NOT draw this in paint or any such utility, ie: CTOS drew the following window! It needs quite a bit of work. I need a replacement function to draw a fill a rectangle. This is in 320x200x256color as that seems to be the only mode the works. The VESA mode I've tried was 0x101(640x480x256color), but the windowbackround was in 1 place and the shadings were another place .
I would like to know what you think on this window I think it's a great start!
Designer/Programmer of the Comtech Operating System(CTOS)
The Book Starts From The Scratch goes on to disclose
the full source code for the MINIX Operating system
which is compatible with UNIX. It also conforms to
ANSI, IEEE and POSIX standards.
No offence is intended in this post but erm, do you know how much it costs MS each time they write a new version of windows. Usually about 2 billion dollers. And thats not starting from scratch (with a few exceptions like win2000), but going from an existing code base. What are you writting this OS in, VB (lol).
I must correct you Warmaster199 on something. Windows is not a dos gui. Windows 3.1 and all windows before that basically were, but windows 95 onwards is not. For a start, they are 32 bit. Yes, they started with yhr dos code and went from there but that doest mean that it is still dos coz it ist. And, window 2000 was from scratch (and possible nt too but im not sure), and the next version of windows which will be a replacement for both win9x and winNT/2000 will be based on the win2000 code base. You might think i am droning on a bit but i have heard several people make this mistake and it annoys me. If you have a lump of clay and you mould it into a pot and then heat it and glase it, is it still a lump of clay? No of course it is't.
One other question to you OS writters, are your OS's going to run windows or dos programs or something? Coz if not, who is going to write the software for it? And if so, i would guess that that is a breach of copyright.
I dont particularly like the windows shell but i use it coz i dislike all the others that people have written even more. Perhaps some of you should attempt to write a windows shell instead, because (not that i am insulting your programming abilities) writting an OS is a mamoth task.
As i said, this post is not ment to offend, i just had to post on this thread coz i couldt help laughing when i read it. Sorry.
I feel i should interject on one point windows 2000 was not built from the ground up instead it is based on NT's code base and from my understanding even NT's roots are from dos
:-)
Windows 3 up to WFW 3.11 were DOS-based, and 16bit. You could get Win32s to enable 32-bit apps to run under them.
Windows 9x is still based on DOS, and is, at heart, 16-bit. Most of it, however, has been rewritten as 32-bit code. Proof of this? That you still have win.com
Windows NT is NOT based on DOS, and is a complete rewrite. Windows 2000 is based on NT, and as such is not based on DOS.
I refuse to tie my hands behind my back and hear somebody say "Bend Over, Boy, Because You Have It Coming To You". -- Linus Torvalds
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CTOS's FIRST WINDOW!!!
