UK failing its children

[nemaroller]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6359363.stm

Wow, according to a recent UNICEF report on historical data , the UK has the worst 'child well-being' of most every developed country.

[mendhak]

There are about 200 countries in the world.

[nemaroller]

Yes but according to Unicef, among wealthy countries (and somehow the Czech Republic is wealthy) - UK has the worst parents.

[disruptivehair]

This is no surprise...you ought to see the media trying to justify it. They're either blaming it all on us (the USA) while desperately ignoring the fact that we are one place ahead of them on the table, or they're saying 'woe is us, we're below big bad AMERICA, we must really SUCK.'

The blamers are hilarious. They blame us for everything yet every other European country on the list placed ahead of us, so obviously they're able to resist our evil culture, making it the UK's fault in my eyes.

This is so good it just has to be fattening.

[FunkyDexter]

Yep can't say it's surprising.

If I was to blame it on anything (other than the US, it's always good to blame things on the US) I'd probably blame it on a combination of Thatcherism, where we were told that there was no such thing as society (so making money was more important than raising kids right) followed by Blairism, where we were told that the state was responsible for raising our Kids so there was no reason to pick that rather inconvenient responsibility back up.

Other than that, it is, of course, all the Americans fault (or possibly the French)

[disruptivehair]

Yep can't say it's surprising.

If I was to blame it on anything (other than the US, it's always good to blame things on the US) I'd probably blame it on a combination of Thatcherism, where we were told that there was no such thing as society (so making money was more important than raising kids right) followed by Blairism, where we were told that the state was responsible for raising our Kids so there was no reason to pick that rather inconvenient responsibility back up.

Other than that, it is, of course, all the Americans fault (or possibly the French)

I'll tell you what I'm telling the British. The rest of Europe managed to avoid our evil influence...so why haven't you? Your children = your responsibility. Personally I'm sick of everyone blaming us for everything; it's a convenient way to avoid responsibility and it won't solve anything.

[FunkyDexter]

I was being facetious. The problem with our kids is that the last twenty years of British politics has allowed and even encouraged us to absolve responsibility for actually raising them.

We do seem to be more susceptible to American culture than the rest of Europe though. It's probably down to the shared language. Also, the 'special relationship' (i.e. you say jump, we say howhigh?)

(BTW, I am British)

[disruptivehair]

I was being facetious.

I know.

The problem with our kids is that the last twenty years of British politics has allowed and even encouraged us to absolve responsibility for actually raising them.

I think it's as much cultural as anything else.

We do seem to be more susceptible to American culture than the rest of Europe though. It's probably down to the shared language. Also, the 'special relationship' (i.e. you say jump, we say howhigh?)

(BTW, I am British)

Susceptible, eh? Like it's a disease or something.

[System_Error]

What the UK needs is George Butches "No Child Left Behind Plan". It gives the false sense that kids aren't failing and are learning at the very same time.

[disruptivehair]

What the UK needs is George Butches "No Child Left Behind Plan". It gives the false sense that kids aren't failing and are learning at the very same time.

Nah, they already have those over here...they're called GCSEs and A-levels.

[crptcblade]

Maybe the UK just has lousy kids?

[disruptivehair]

Maybe the UK just has lousy kids?

Nah, kids are the same everywhere...a few bright ones, a bunch of average ones, and more than a few bad apples.

[FunkyDexter]

I think it's as much cultural as anything else

Definitely but I think that culture come about as a result of politics. Thatcherism taught us to stop caring about society and Blairism taught us that the state knew more about how we should raise our kids than we do. This combination has made it way to easy for parents to get in the habit of blaming someone else (whether it's the schools, society, the internet, whatever you like) while failing to acknowledge that they really haven't done much for the kid themselves.

We've got a divorce rate through the roof, a teenage pregnancy rate that's practically medievel, more single mothers than you can shake a paternity test at and parents who think it's better to have their young child in daycare for upwards of 8 hours a day than it is for one of them to go part time. Thatcherism taught us that the last of these was acceptable and Blairism taught us that the other three were.

And if I can find the pin headed social worker that first started telling us that teenagers were really young adults I swear I'll shove a gaggle of bling encrusted, hoodie wearing, car keying, wheelie bin emtpying, OAP intimidating, brick lobbing, asbo sporting chav teenagers from Portsmouth straight up his fundament.

[FunkyDexter]

they're called GCSEs and A-levels

Oh so true. You might want to add media degrees to the list though.

[disruptivehair]

Definitely but I think that culture come about as a result of politics. Thatcherism taught us to stop caring about society and Blairism taught us that the state knew more about how we should raise our kids than we do. This combination has made it way to easy for parents to get in the habit of blaming someone else (whether it's the schools, society, the internet, whatever you like) while failing to acknowledge that they really haven't done much for the kid themselves.

We've got a divorce rate through the roof, a teenage pregnancy rate that's practically medievel, more single mothers than you can shake a paternity test at and parents who think it's better to have their young child in daycare for upwards of 8 hours a day than it is for one of them to go part time. Thatcherism taught us that the last of these was acceptable and Blairism taught us that the other three were.

And if I can find the pin headed social worker that first started telling us that teenagers were really young adults I swear I'll shove a gaggle of bling encrusted, hoodie wearing, car keying, wheelie bin emtpying, OAP intimidating, brick lobbing, asbo sporting chav teenagers from Portsmouth straight up his fundament.

Get real, though; the cost of living is so obscene that how the hell can ANYONE afford to do ANYTHING part-time?

[disruptivehair]

Oh so true. You might want to add media degrees to the list though.

Or a degree from any of the former polytechnics.

[FunkyDexter]

Good question. I think we need real financial incentives for one parent to stay at home. And we need to start viewing active parenthood as a worthy vocation (so it earns NI contributions etc). That won't be cheap for the working section of the populace but I believe it's a price worth paying for the society we want.

One of the things that struck me watching newsnight last night was that in Holland (who came top) it's pratically unheard of for both parents to be working full time.

[FunkyDexter]

Or a degree from any of the former polytechnics

Oi, that includes mine!

I know what you mean though, it was practically impossible to actualy fail my course and some of the folks who got thirds could barely work out where the on button was.

[disruptivehair]

Oi, that includes mine!

I know what you mean though, it was practically impossible to actualy fail my course and some of the folks who got thirds could barely work out where the on button was.

I work with a guy with a chem degree who did not get the following rhyme:

'Johnny was a chemist's son
But Johnny is no more
Since what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4'

Now THAT is SAD. My degree is in French. FRENCH. FRENCH! Granted, we in America have to take classes in science and math to get liberal arts degrees, but STILL!

In terms of chem knowledge, one could assume:

Person with chem degree > Person with French degree

In the case of my colleague, they'd be wrong!

Another time I joked about asking my husband for 1 mol of Snickers bars. The chem degree guy asked me what a mol was.

And Jesus wept....

[FunkyDexter]

My degree is in French.

Hang your head in shame. You don't need a degree in French, you just need to be able to shout really loud in English!

What level of degree did the chem guy get? I thought that pure science degrees in this country still had some integrity but if he's anything to go by I guess not. I only took chemistryto GCSE myself (1988 - first year of GCSEs) and got a C but even I got that rhyme (though I must admit I was uncertain enough to check the formula, just to make sure). And even a rudimentary knowledge in biology is enough to know that a mol is a small blind creature that lives in the ground and destroys lawns.

[disruptivehair]

Hang your head in shame. You don't need a degree in French, you just need to be able to shout really loud in English!

I could already speak French and I didn't know what else to study. At least I did a scientific option instead of stupid literature; I studied applied linguistics. In French.

What level of degree did the chem guy get? I thought that pure science degrees in this country still had some integrity but if he's anything to go by I guess not. I only took chemistryto GCSE myself (1988 - first year of GCSEs) and got a C but even I got that rhyme (though I must admit I was uncertain enough to check the formula, just to make sure). And even a rudimentary knowledge in biology is enough to know that a mol is a small blind creature that lives in the ground and destroys lawns.

He got a BSc.

You're joking about the mol I hope.

[FunkyDexter]

He got a BSc.

I meant as in 1st, 2:1, 2:2 or third. Like I said, in my degree a trained monkey could have got a third (and I'm not sure the training would be strictly neccessary) but geting a 2:1 was actually pretty hard (only 3 awarded in my year) and a first woud be a real achievement (none of these were awarded at all). Our course seemed to be designed to cram just about everyone into a 2:2 or third.

You're joking about the mol I hope

I'd never joke about a mole. Mole infestation is a serious matter. (but I was joking, yes - I wonder what the molecular mass of a mole is...)

[disruptivehair]

I meant as in 1st, 2:1, 2:2 or third. Like I said, in my degree a trained monkey could have got a third (and I'm not sure the training would be strictly neccessary) but geting a 2:1 was actually pretty hard (only 3 awarded in my year) and a first woud be a real achievement (none of these were awarded at all). Our course seemed to be designed to cram just about everyone into a 2:2 or third.

Hell would I know? He probably got a 2:1; he's pretty thick but it seems that everyone can get a 2:1 these days. Most of the people I hang out with over here got firsts, and there's one guy who got a starred first. Even so, firsts aren't what they were 10 years ago.

I'd never joke about a mole. Mole infestation is a serious matter. (but I was joking, yes - I wonder what the molecular mass of a mole is...)

Har har har.

[FunkyDexter]

it seems that everyone can get a 2:1 these days

<sigh> you're determined to make me feel bad today aren't you. Mind you, I scored highest in my class so

The day they start giving out starred firsts you just know they've completely devalued a qualification don't you?

[disruptivehair]

<sigh> you're determined to make me feel bad today aren't you. Mind you, I scored highest in my class so

Nope, I'm really not. I have no idea when you got your degree, but the new graduates we've got at work are barely literate and they have 2:1s.

The day they start giving out starred firsts you just know they've completely devalued a qualification don't you?

The starred first guy got his 20 years ago. Apparently it was the first one that uni had ever handed out. He's really smart. Way smarter than both of us put together. My hubby got a 2:1 back when they were hard to get.

[FunkyDexter]

Nope, I'm really not. I have no idea when you got your degree, but the new graduates we've got at work are barely literate and they have 2:1s.

That's actually quite worrying. I genuinely think it was quite hard to get a 2:1 when I sat my course (like I said, only 3 awarded), so if things have got devalued to the point where 2:1 is the norm then what the hell did I sweat for?

Oh well, I blame the parents.

[litlewiki]

You all missed the point of the article.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6365123.stm

[FunkyDexter]

Yep, it's true. The state of education amongst our ants is terrible. I may still be missing the point though.

[disruptivehair]

That's actually quite worrying. I genuinely think it was quite hard to get a 2:1 when I sat my course (like I said, only 3 awarded), so if things have got devalued to the point where 2:1 is the norm then what the hell did I sweat for?

Oh well, I blame the parents.

I know what you mean. I graduated from uni in 1997 and actually had to work for my degree; kids nowadays have it so easy. Grade inflation is out of control.

[capsulecorpjx]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6359363.stm

Wow, according to a recent UNICEF report on historical data , the UK has the worst 'child well-being' of most every developed country.

Why are so many people in poverty in the UK? I thought a more leftist government wouldn't allow such a disparity between rich and poor.

But from what I hear the cost of living, especially in London is insane.

[nemaroller]

Well, I don't think more people are in 'poverty' in the UK than say the Netherlands. I mean come on, let's be real here.

The report describes the 'poverty' level to be less than 50% of the medium national income. Those socialist Europeans countries have such distribution of wealth (rob the money makers so the lazy people can have $150 Nike shoes,etc) , and we have far more immigration, that its almost impossible to compare UK or the US to those nordic germanic European countries.

And the Czech Republic was like #3 or something? I see things like this and I ask what government taxation program (or social laws) was this report supposed to favor?

Somebody just wants your money and they need to scare the citizens of the UK in believing they need to be taxed more to help the kids. That's my opinion.

[disruptivehair]

Well, I don't think more people are in 'poverty' in the UK than say the Netherlands. I mean come on, let's be real here.

The report describes the 'poverty' level to be less than 50% of the medium national income. Those socialist Europeans countries have such distribution of wealth (rob the money makers so the lazy people can have $150 Nike shoes,etc) , and we have far more immigration, that its almost impossible to compare UK or the US to those nordic germanic European countries.

And the Czech Republic was like #3 or something? I see things like this and I ask what government taxation program (or social laws) was this report supposed to favor?

Somebody just wants your money and they need to scare the citizens of the UK in believing they need to be taxed more to help the kids. That's my opinion.

I wouldn't say wealth is distributed here; it's just that salaries are so stingy! The cost of living is insane and we're squeezed bone dry by fees and taxes, it's disgusting.

UNICEF does seem to favor countries with a more socialist bent, but I agree that the UK has serious social problems that I can only see getting worse. It's hard to explain to someone who doesn't see it every day, but people here seem to be scared of their own children.

[mendhak]

Imagine the sheer amount of problems that could be solved if only one were allowed to beat their children.

Yes, serious.

[disruptivehair]

Imagine the sheer amount of problems that could be solved if only one were allowed to beat their children.

Yes, serious.

It's why I won't give money to the NSPCC (National Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children) in the UK; they keep coming out against smacking. I'm not in favor of beating kids to a pulp, but sometimes only a smack will do. I won't raise my kids in a country where I'd be put in jail for disciplining them. It's already illegal in Scotland to smack your kids, and it's practically illegal in the rest of the UK.

[grilkip]

Violence solves problems.

[litlewiki]

Love creates children.

[disruptivehair]

Love creates children.

No, sex does.

[litlewiki]

No, sex does.

No, unsafe sex does.

[FunkyDexter]

Why are so many people in poverty in the UK? I thought a more leftist government wouldn't allow such a disparity between rich and poor

Don't be fooled into thinking New labour are leftists. There social policies tend to be liberal but there economic policies are very right wing. We currently have a greater divide between rich and poor in this country than we've had since Edwardian times.

There are two measures of poverty and the one we use is relative poverty. That means your in poverty if your income is substantially less than the national average. To me that's not a measure of poverty, it's a measure of economic disparity and that's something we definitely have a problem with at the moment. A real measure of poverty would be if your income is substantially less than the global average, and I suspect we'd probably score quite well on that.

[litlewiki]

When you say global average ,does that include all the countries or only the 21 developed countries ?