Vista?

**timeshifter** · Feb 6th, 2007, 08:21 PM

I'm looking at the other link for 10 reasons to get Vista, but I need some more hands-on opinions. If I get this job, I'll need to know a good deal about it, since that's what they're trying to sell... so if anyone has any decently useful input, please tell me why I should get Vista instead of XP.

Thanks!

**rory** · Feb 6th, 2007, 09:08 PM

so they can upgrade their PC to a much faster (and more expensive) one ..

**Atheist** · Feb 6th, 2007, 09:08 PM

It looks way more cooler.
Easier to use (Network overview/connection is way way easier)
Parental control (for parents...I dont use it.. )
The fast search function
Atheist hasnt had a single freeze or bluescreen yet, tell them that, from me.
Anti-blues protection
There are sure to be more stuff I just cant think properly this late..

**RobDog888** · Feb 7th, 2007, 04:14 PM

Better security with the User Access Control but that can also be a hinderance to learn to program with (have to use a manifest file with a RunAs tag to specify Administrator or something like that. Still testing that part out.).

Much more stable right out of the case then XP ever was. If you can afford to get any of the non-Home versions then do it as I recently discovered that XP Home is a upgrade from Windows ME

And so logic would be that Vista Home is a upgrade from that. XP Pro is an upgrade from 2000 Pro and Vista Ultimate should be the upgrade from that and maybe Vista Business too.

**kregg** · Feb 8th, 2007, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by timeshifter

I'm looking at the other link for 10 reasons to get Vista

10 reasons to get Vista

Another 10 reasons to get Vista

And yet again, another 10 reasons to get Vista

**Fishcake** · Feb 8th, 2007, 06:23 AM

I installed vista a few months ago and honestly didn't like it so i've moved back to XP for the time being. Maybe I'll try and ease myself in again sometime in the future.

**VBlee** · Feb 8th, 2007, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by Fishcake

I installed vista a few months ago and honestly didn't like it so i've moved back to XP for the time being. Maybe I'll try and ease myself in again sometime in the future.

i find its more you got to find the things you want as there all in different places compared to before, its something you will adapt to though.

**RobDog888** · Feb 8th, 2007, 03:43 PM

Yes, almost every OS version has changed things around. Nobody likes change

**timeshifter** · Feb 16th, 2007, 11:02 AM

Ok, revision of the question:

I need to know everything that makes Vista superior or easier to use for the average user than XP Pro.

It's hard for me, as I have absolutely no reason to upgrade, nor do I feel compelled to. However, I'll need to upsell it, and to do that I need to be educated in it.

Yes, you read correctly. I'm asking for edumacation here.

**the182guy** · Feb 16th, 2007, 12:41 PM

I've started using it recently and I've found that

- the start>programs menu is much better than the XP one
- the windows explorer is far more advanced and easier to use
- office 2007 looks absolutely amazing (ty ILMV

)
- the graphics look high quality on a wide res, my laptop is widescreen and on XP the quick launch icons look pixelatted because they have been stretched. Vista fixes this.
- windows mail seems to be better than outlook (i havent tried outlook 2007 yet)
- IE7 looks good in vista, in xp i think it looks horrible
- context menus are easier on the eye
- the gadgets/widgets are good. I have the analogue clock, notes and local weather on the sidebar. you can get loads more such as an RSS reader.

I could go on and on...

**timeshifter** · Feb 16th, 2007, 02:11 PM

Please do.

**RobDog888** · Feb 16th, 2007, 02:18 PM

If you want to develop next generation applications then you will require Vista. There is just so much more that you can do when developing apps for Vista. I am swamped just getting into all the technologies that Vista offers access to via VS.NET 2005.

**timeshifter** · Feb 16th, 2007, 02:33 PM

Such as?

**RobDog888** · Feb 17th, 2007, 12:23 AM

Gadget creation, AeroGlass theme, many graphic improvements, Security, UI improvements (such as advanced message boxes), etc.

**rory** · Feb 17th, 2007, 12:39 AM

for a standard home PC best to stick with XP for now .. wait a while for apps to be developed for Vista and hardware costs to drop .. my 2cents ..

Like Rob said though (somewhat), if you are developer though you want to setup at least a seperate box to work on vista .. if even only to test on.

**RobDog888** · Feb 17th, 2007, 02:17 AM

Upon rereading the OP it seems he may be wanting "user" reasons and not only developer reasons. The ones I posted are a mix.

TS, have you tried reading the reasons on the Vista site?

**timeshifter** · Feb 17th, 2007, 05:21 AM

No, please shoot me a link.

And yes, I'm looking for user reasons. My development skills aren't far enough along to notice any real difference from what I've heard, and there probably won't be a whole lot of tech-literate people walking into Staples... mostly your average users with average PC's.

**RobDog888** · Feb 17th, 2007, 02:24 PM

Here's one -
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...S/default.mspx

**timeshifter** · Feb 18th, 2007, 10:56 PM

"Seven-and-a-half things I love about Windows Vista

By Jay Munro"

1. IE: The next generation

Welcome to last year. Firefox has been owning IE since the beginning.

2. Windows Sidebar: All news all the time

For the listed reasons, you'd still need internet, and Fx can provide those for you as you browse. Not totally sure about stocks, as I don't need them. That's what a customized Google home page is for.

3. Windows Aero: Wow

Just a fancy and memory-intensive Alt-Tab menu as far as I'm concerned. Visually cool, but not worth it.

4. Mahjong Titans: When you just have to play

Solitaire will always be the boredom game of choice.

As for what it has to do with Vista. Anything can be found online if you look hard enough. I could probably download it for XP without a ton of trouble.

5. Start menu search: Now where did I leave that file?

Searching is nothing new... apparently organization is. Anyone with half an ounce of organizational skills can find anything quickly without a search. In the event that it's too secluded or in a hidden folder, even XP's searches with almost 60 gigs of data take no more than ten seconds. And did we forget about the recent documents folder in the classic Start menu?

5 ½. Stay, Start menu, stay

He's got issues. I don't have any problems with the Start menu. It's easy, clean, and for me, organized. No problem.

6. Control Panel Search: Even a caveman can do it

Someone probably got a call from Geiko, and even thus, if you can't figure out where to find your options, you need to crawl out of the cave to begin with. I detest XP's control panel, which is why I use the classic one. Everything is right in front of your nose, just pick the nearest thing. If you need to use a search to find mouse settings, you shouldn't be using a computer.

7. Windows Photo Gallery: What you see is what you've got

Actually looks like a good idea. But once again, XP can search for only one file type, so not only is it a similar concept, it's more dynamic. Granted, it doesn't let you tag, but you can find and locate lots of things quickly.

From that list, I give Vista 1 out of 7.5 worthwhile features. Go back to Windows XP? Probably won't take long after I'm forced to try Vista. If they can't convince an objective thinker, how can that objective thinker convince a consumer? I'm not the least bit impressed with what I've heard. All it is right now is a waste of money and memory. And I still hate the BitLocker idea. That's just asking to screw everything up very quickly.

**rory** · Feb 18th, 2007, 11:04 PM

Windows Photo Gallery?
I use ACDSEE now .. i hope it works on Vista ..

Unfortunately most of his points dont seem valid, as most of that is already available in XP at less overhead .. using non MS products or changing the default XP settings ... maybe he never used XP, or at least not properly??

And that Flip thing .. its been in Linux for a while now ..

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 01:44 AM

Yes, TS, thats one of the good sections on the link I posted.

@rory, why struggle so much to use non-MS stuff when the Os has it all built in?Actually, may be generating more overhead by having third party apps to duplicate features that are already in there.

**rory** · Feb 19th, 2007, 01:50 AM

I'll see when i get it .. but remember most clients like free/shareware .. but like you said if its built in .. then its free .. but they have to still buy new PC hardware .. :-( well i'll see when I get my hands on it ..ill get the basic version and tweak the heck out of it and see what i can use it on !

I do like the fact that MS kept alot of the original good stuff in there ..

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 01:59 AM

Allot of the "stuff" is still there, just some of it is located in different areas as I guess they felt it was more beneficial to the work process to put this here and that there.

**rory** · Feb 19th, 2007, 02:16 AM

Well they are a software company, I do totally understand really ..
XP outlived itself, they had to move onto something better, bigger ..
Clients want more, they want new .. something different.

They cant be worried about cost of hardware, as it will drop (like you said)
and what does say alot is that they didnt lie about the fact that it takes up more resources, told us upfront, which is good. I may not be a fan of .NET in general .. at least on XP .. and I have mentioned other stuff also, but I do understand where they are coming from .. and being its a huge company, i thank gawd there are still the scripting guys there to help push our cause :-)

Oh yeah the VB6 guys too .. they help alot by pushing support for VB6 ..
when MS could have easily got away with saying hey ... its a new OS,
new Programming Software required .. take it or leave it ..

what else is there anyway ..
Linux .. looked at it .. no tanks

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 02:39 AM

Yes, I believe MS has been the most honest and upfront on Vista then any other OS release to date. Yes they did away with VB 6 support on Vista but brought it back after much noise was made. Nobody likes change or they are afraid of it, but then when they do make the change its not long before they start to see the light and are like "Vista is GREAT!!!

"

**rory** · Feb 19th, 2007, 02:46 AM

yep ... man i was crossing the road tonight and stepped in a crater ..
twisted the front part of the foot ...

Anyway, once using Vista doesnt hurt as much as this does .. im game
Im ordering new PC parts for my parents now also, so ill be ordering parts
for myself, for vista and an XP machine ...

Hey .. any ideas whats the least amount of hardware Vista (Home) can run on with decent speed .. default settings. I was thinking maybe a Core Duo .. if I can get away with a Dual Core though even better on the pocket ..;-)

Im going to get a P4 800fsb for the XP machine, 1 or 2 GB DDR2 ..
this 4 year old HP Athlon 3000+ potcake Im using now is going in the trash ..

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 03:07 AM

Run the Vista advisor utility to see how your current pc stands up against Vista
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...a&mg_id=20029b

100 Reasons to use Vista:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...00reasons.mspx

Vista home:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...a/default.mspx

See Vista Demos:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...t/default.mspx

**rory** · Feb 19th, 2007, 03:15 AM

LOL .. they are all MS sites ... anyway #1 will cover what I need ... for now ..
thanks for the links ../

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 03:19 AM

But of course they are MS sites. Who else will have the latest and greatest knowledge and source os Vista information? Linux site?

**rory** · Feb 19th, 2007, 03:30 AM

checking now ..

surprisingly my AMD 2400+ CPU (not 2000+ as previously posed) passed the test

However ..

my 512Mb memory needs upgrading,
my 128mb ATI Video card needs upgrading ..
I need a DVD drive
I need a larger than 60GB hard drive ..

Ultra VNC wont work.
My USB Dongle (KeyLock) wont work.

Nero Ultra 6 wont work.
MS VB6 may have compatibility issues
Adobe Acrobat may have Issues.
ATI Catalyst Control Center may have compatibility issues

that is still cool though .. :-)

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 04:28 AM

I see three that can be eliminated...

MS VB6 may have compatibility issues
Adobe Acrobat may have Issues
ATI Catalyst Control Center may have compatibility issues

1. The only compatibility issue is with VS 6.0 VC++.
2. Upgrade to 8.0
3. Upgrade the driver or wait til you upgrade your card.

I'd recommend 2 gigs of ram, 256 video card that supports DX 9 if you want to use the AeroGlass theme, DVD drive is only $15, HDs are inexpensive relativitly speaking.

**Shaggy Hiker** · Feb 19th, 2007, 10:33 AM

It seems like they are stretching to find new features. For a long time, each new release of an OS added significant improvements over past versions. Now, it seems like most of the changes are cosmetic at best. The only truly important change would be improved security (which Vista claims to have), but that probably isn't enough of a selling point to create a whole new OS.

Perhaps we are seeing the end of truly significant OS improvements. Back when cars first came out, each new one had significant improvements. Then for a long time the improvements were mostly cosmetic. Reliability and economy only became important relatively lately, and neither one has been a big seller in the US market. We may be seeing the same thing in OSs, the changes have been made, now it's just cosmetics.

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Vista Ultimate can do drive encryption, User Account Control, File and Registry Virtualizations, etc. They are all new features but are related to security as everyone always bashed on how insecure windows is.

**Al42** · Feb 19th, 2007, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by rory

Ultra VNC wont work.

That lets me out. If UVNC doesn't work, I don't work.

Nero Ultra 6 wont work.

Another "no" vote"

I'll wait, at least, until my company upgrades, by which time both of those issues will have been addressed and fixed.

**RobDog888** · Feb 19th, 2007, 03:14 PM

Those apps compatibilty issues are the responsibility of the manufacturers, not Vista.

Nero? Could be easily replaced.
UVNC? Create a VPN instead.

**timeshifter** · Feb 20th, 2007, 08:28 PM

I don't want MS reasons to use Vista... naturally they're biased. I need user feedback, and that batch of stuff I found was crap. Nothing worthwhile in there, and he seriously needs to look around a bit. XP is still up there, simply because it's easy. Even if the program isn't a default in XP, it's not hard to go online, type what you need in a Google search, and find a million hits. People who can't do that don't deserve internet anyway. User feedback, as unbiased as possible.

**RobDog888** · Feb 20th, 2007, 08:30 PM

Ok, I'm a Vista user. [unbiased]I think its the greatest thing ever. You NEED to have it. Go and buy it now![/unbiased]

**rory** · Feb 20th, 2007, 09:32 PM

LOL ... how much you paid for that new Vista PC now ..

im going to follow your specs but i dont think i can afford it ..

**RobDog888** · Feb 21st, 2007, 12:32 AM

I built it out of old parts. I bought a new Antec case (~$50), antec power supply (~$65), mobo (~$235), dual layer Sony dvd burner ($28), Sony dvd rom ($18), 2 Gigs RAM (~$220), floppy ($6), couple of 120mm high CFM case fans and dual fan HD fan (~$20), 2 dual dvi dual monitor ATI Radeon 256 MB PCIe x16 video cards ($180 for both).

The 74 Gig 10K RPM HD I borrowed from my XP system's RAID 1 Mirror and the dual core extreme CPU I got via someones Intel employee company discount program for $495.

So you see, its a blazing system but I was fortunate enough to have some of the parts available and the CPU discounted from $1,200 down to $495 was the lifesaver. Otherwise I could not afford it.

Total cost: ~$1,000

I'm ordering 2 new Raptor 10K 150 Gig HDs, replacing my old 18" ViewSonic LDC with a matching 17" ViewSonic, adding at least another 2 Gigs of RAM sometime before the end of the month. Then it will be a bit better.

Ps, Oh ya, and Vista Ultimate RTM, VS 2005 Team Suite SP-1, Office Ultimate 2007 costs: $0.00

**rory** · Feb 21st, 2007, 11:30 PM

cool .. yeah all my parts are going to be new this time ..
im actually going through parts now online as I need to get some parts for DVRs as well as some Home PCs .. Im going for Micro ATX (uATX) mobos though .. so its a little tough .. might go 945 or maybe 965 chipsets .. not sure yet .. the CPU's ... just Dual Cores for the DVRs .. Core2 maybe for my vista .. and regular 800fsb P4 3.2's for the home PC/s .. it has to be intel chipsets for the DVRs .. and I just want to use the same thing for all of them, makes it easier .. was in stores today looking for mobos with specific specs and its hard to find down here .. so im going to bring in a few of everything to always have hardware on hand ..

I do know i wont be spending $200+ on a mobo though

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