Watch this ... Forget VISTA

[chocoloco]

http://chris.pirillo.com/2006/09/06/...ter-than-this/

[wossname]

www.1001-ways-to-waste-your-clockcycles-with-random-crap-that-youll-get-sick-of-after-3-days-and-then-turn-off.com

[timeshifter]

I don't know what that is, but it's cool... drool...

[chocoloco]

www.1001-ways-to-waste-your-clockcycles-with-random-crap-that-youll-get-sick-of-after-3-days-and-then-turn-off.com

That is not the point mister.

The point is the cool stuff this Linux OS have that is still not there in VISTA after all those years of development and advancement.

[Cander]

Usless eye candy bloat wether it is by Microsoft or some Open source fanatics.

[Cander]

That is not the point mister.

The point is the cool stuff this Linux OS have that is still not there in VISTA after all those years of development and advancement.

And it is only there because they know Windows is going to have it. And it still is useless bloat.

[grilkip]

compiz is quite nice actually after you make some modifications.

The window wobble is the first to go.

Fedora 6 will have it included.

[penagate]

http://chris.pirillo.com/2006/09/06/...ter-than-this/

Hideous.

[wossname]

You can't beat a terminal mode linux server installation. Anyone who disagrees is a communist.

[kleinma]

I saw an add in PC Magazine for SUSE linux that described those features.. so I am guessing they use it in their linux distro.

I like linux for some reasons. I like Windows for more reasons that I like linux. (I get windows for free so its hard to factor cost in against MS)

Other that price, what does linux do for the average user of a PC that Windows does not?

[grilkip]

Other than price, what does linux do for the average user of a PC that Windows does not?

Nothing.

[litlewiki]

That is not the point mister.

The point is the cool stuff this Linux OS have that is still not there in VISTA after all those years of development and advancement.

Thats wossy's usual nature.You got to take it easy choco

Other that price, what does linux do for the average user of a PC that Windows does not?

Nothing more,Nothing less!

[kleinma]

Thats wossy's usual nature.You got to take it easy choco



Nothing more,Nothing less!

nothing less?

tell that to the 60 year old man that finds out he needs to compile his own drivers to get hardware to work when if he had windows it would have autoinstalled

[Bonker Gudd]

You can't beat a terminal mode linux server installation.

But is it recyclable?

[litlewiki]

when if he had windows it would have autoinstalled

Don't tell me about about the auto driver update feature .It sucks to the core!

[kleinma]

Don't tell me about about the auto driver update feature .It sucks to the core!

No I am talking about how Windows comes with MANY of the common drivers for devices. Or when it doesn't have the drivers, you know the hardware came with a driver disk, or at the VERY VERY least, offers a driver download.

Your hardware selection for linux is much more limited.

[grilkip]

The reason drivers for linux are hard to find is because manufacturers hardly develope them. Not open source anyway and most distros will only include open source in their default package or repositories.

The reason manufacturers do not develope them is because less than 10% of users are running linux.

The reason only a few people are using linux is because you can't get drivers.

I'm a genius

[kleinma]

The reason drivers for linux are hard to find is because manufacturers hardly develope them. Not open source anyway and most distros will only include open source in their default package or repositories.

The reason manufacturers do not develope them is because less than 10% of users are running linux.

The reason only a few people are using linux is because you can't get drivers.

I'm a genius

So then what is mac's excuse? Proprietary software AND hardware?

[litlewiki]

So then what is mac's excuse? Proprietary software AND hardware?

Well macs got a different story .The h/w base is limited and is fully supported by apple.On top of it its costly and not so customizable because of its Proprietary software AND hardware

[kleinma]

Well macs got a different story .The h/w base is limited and is fully supported by apple.On top of it its costly and not so customizable because of its Proprietary software AND hardware

I know... that is probably why you don't get the complaints from Apple about Microsoft that you do from lets say netscape or musicmatch.

Apple bundles lots of other software with their OS, the same type of thing that Microsoft keeps getting sued/scrutinized for.

All in all, for the foreseeable (woah lots of vowels in that word) future, I will use Windows, but also have Linux distros for when I want to tinker.

If MAC decides they will sell their OS to run on PCs, I would probably run that too. I wouldn't buy a mac just to do it though.

Maybe by then we will all just be running dumb terminals and all our software will be licensed and run from servers else where...

[wossname]

But is it recyclable?

It will still be biodegrading millions of years after Windows has long been forgotten (ie, next week).

[kleinma]

It will still be biodegrading millions of years after Windows has long been forgotten (ie, next week).

I knew I smelled something funny from my linux box...

[litlewiki]

If MAC decides they will sell their OS to run on PCs, I would probably run that too. I wouldn't buy a mac just to do it though.

The reverse is possible though ,You could run xp on a mac(Also known as boot camp)

[kleinma]

The reverse is possible though ,You could run xp on a mac(Also known as boot camp)

I know that, however being that the mac is limited by hardware and not very upgradable (in terms of ability to shop around), I wouldn't want to limit myself to that type of hardware.

[chocoloco]

I guess that was not my point. If this linux has 10 times more cool features than Vista, then what is microsoft bragging about all this time?

[litlewiki]

For more info proceed to shellrevealed.com -blog of the developers of the vista aero interface...May be they can resolve your doubts .

[kleinma]

I guess that was not my point. If this linux has 10 times more cool features than Vista, then what is microsoft bragging about all this time?

I guess it all depends on what you consider a "cool feature"

spinning your desktop around on a 3d axis is gimicky eye candy. Microsoft is encorporating a new look into vista because lets face it.. people like shiny objects...

[penagate]

I guess that was not my point. If this linux has 10 times more cool features than Vista, then what is microsoft bragging about all this time?

Because Vista's primary market neither knows that these features exist in Linux nor cares about Linux.

[penagate]

Apple bundles lots of other software with their OS, the same type of thing that Microsoft keeps getting sued/scrutinized for.

Apple doesn't have the market space for this to be an issue. You could argue they have a monopoly over their niche platform, but there aren't any other players in it anyway.

I think, theoretically and ideally, there is no reason why Microsoft should not include software like WMP, or MSIE, because they provide functionality to the OS.

The issues really are:

1. these are branded products that compete with other vendors' products, rather than generic, basic tools built into the OS; and
2. Windows has the personal OS market space more or less sewn up.

Because of 2., Microsoft are accused of abusing their monopoly over the market, when really they are just doing a logical thing by adding functionality to their OS. I daresay the type of user that currently relies on WMP would be less than amused if Windows did not bundle a tool for playing audio/video, although this would be tempered if the installer provided a choice of WMP and several competing products.


As for the Linux discussion, I think Linux is a brilliant OS for servers, but it will never crack the desktop PC market in its current state. What average home PC user is going to wade through pages and pages looking for their ideal distro (and then find it doesn't work with their scanner or USB camera)?

And also, bundling a Linux distro on cheap PCs, like some retailer chains did in the US, does tend to give it a cheap tacky image in the eyes of consumers. Illogical as it sounds, many people associate price with quality, and hence assume that anything free will be crap; they never get to the stage of realising that in reality it can be quite the opposite.

[kleinma]

Apple doesn't have the market space for this to be an issue. You could argue they have a monopoly over their niche platform, but there aren't any other players in it anyway.

Adobe is one company that might tend to disagree with you there.

[penagate]

Oh, I see. I meant, they have a "monopoly" by being the only OS vendors for the Mac platform. But, yes.

Adobe and Apple seem to have a pretty good working relationship though - neithers products really infringe on the others' territory. From what I have seen, Adobe make more professional-level products, whereas Apple's bundled stuff is aimed towards home users and beginners.

[sunburnt]

nothing less?

tell that to the 60 year old man that finds out he needs to compile his own drivers to get hardware to work when if he had windows it would have autoinstalled

This really isn't the case anymore. Windows XP shipped in October of 2001. The version of Linux I'm running shipped June 2006; the next version is due sometime this month. Guess which one supports more and newer hardware straight out of the box

[CyberSurfer]

For anybody interested, the features available in that video are available with Opensuse 10.1. Also, to whoever mentioned nobody makes drivers for Linux, graphics wise at least both NVidia and ATi release drivers for said operating system. Speaking from a great deal of experience using both desktop and server systems with Linux there have only been a couple of occasions where I have been unable to get hardware to work with the default packaged drivers and they involved either virtualised or very very old hardware.

I'd also like to take a minute to raise a couple of point about the current state of Linux which, according to Penagate will never crack the desktop market as it stands. I by no means disagree with this statement in as much as Linux will never break into the desktop market unless it matches the usability of Windows, but I think that point may be somewhat closer than you think. Again taking the example of Opensuse 10.1, I conducted an experiment at work with some of my more less technically able users ("Wot's a computer???"). I sat them down at a default install of Opensuse and asked them to perform several of their day to day tasks (Sending an email, using a word processor, surfing the net etc). The system was in it's default state aside from the fact that I'd configured email accounts, internet access etc since they were accessing work systems. Given that the users had never had any previous exposure to Linux, they were able to complete all the tasks I asked them to with only their very limited knowledge of Windows.

IMO, the most important thing that Linux is on the verge of acheiving on the desktop, while not copying Windows exactly, is the translation of windows metaphors (ie click on Start to find programs) into a format that clueless users can intuitively understand. And I think it's almost there

Having said that tho, I still agree with Wossy.....anybody using anything other than terminal mode *nix is a poor excuse for a human being and should be shot on sight.

[penagate]

IMO, the most important thing that Linux is on the verge of acheiving on the desktop, while not copying Windows exactly, is the translation of windows metaphors (ie click on Start to find programs) into a format that clueless users can intuitively understand. And I think it's almost there

Yeah but you gave them a distro to work with, thus skipping what I think is the biggest hurdle facing those curious to try Linux.

But, I do agree, it's close.

[grilkip]

Also, to whoever mentioned nobody makes drivers for Linux, graphics wise at least both NVidia and ATi release drivers for said operating system. Speaking from a great deal of experience using both desktop and server systems with Linux there have only been a couple of occasions where I have been unable to get hardware to work with the default packaged drivers and they involved either virtualised or very very old hardware.

NVidia and ATi are the most obvious examples of available drivers. And most distros do not have them in their default repos(not that this is a problem). But try getting a webcam to work that isn't logitech or philips.

[vbcode1980]

Fedora 6 will have it included.

Can't wait to get it. If they stop delaying..

[CyberSurfer]

Yeah but you gave them a distro to work with, thus skipping what I think is the biggest hurdle facing those curious to try Linux.

But, I do agree, it's close.

It's no more of a hurdle that getting people to figure out which version of Windows Vista they should be getting. In the real world, most people will use whichever version of an OS they are given when they buy their computer. If the person is technically capable of upgrading their operating system, it isn't exactly hard to find some reviews of Linux distros and pick one. My test reflected the usability of the operating system. Choice wise it's not something the average user will ever likely have to make.

[CyberSurfer]

NVidia and ATi are the most obvious examples of available drivers. And most distros do not have them in their default repos(not that this is a problem). But try getting a webcam to work that isn't logitech or philips.

True, but the card will still work with default drivers!

[chocoloco]

I guess it all depends on what you consider a "cool feature"

spinning your desktop around on a 3d axis is gimicky eye candy. Microsoft is encorporating a new look into vista because lets face it.. people like shiny objects...

Thats right, but isn't MS have been concentrating on "shiny" features more than the real ones (if there are any). I mean, lets pretend for a minute Vista did not have those shiny features, what else does it have that commands a new OS altogether? I know they will talk about extended search and all that, not sure if that is all that big a deal though.

[wossname]

Thats wossy's usual nature.

No it isn't. [rant ommitted for the sake of sanity]