Question about abortion.

[capsulecorpjx]

This is a question for the religious people who are against abortion.

What happens to aborted fetus's? Do their souls automatically go to heaven?

If yes ...

Wouldn't it be the ultimate act of sacrifice for a mother to abort her child?

Think about it.

She is committing a grave sin so her child will go directly to heaven.
Because if she gives birth to her child, there is a good chance that her child might not accept the chosen religion, therefore be sent to burn in Hell for all eternity.

Chew on that contradiction for a while.

[paralinx]

my head hurts now

[big blue alien]

No they go to limbo because they were realy evil in not getting their parents to baptise them so must be punished

[mendhak]

There's also the concept of 'The Age of Reason', before which the child isn't supposed to be held responsible for its actions.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Seems like that argument doesn't apply only to fetuses. Shouldn't we kill all people once they are good?

We should try people for decency, and execute them if they are convicted.

You would have to prove that you were a no-good, lousy, rotten, so-and-so if you wanted to avoid execution.

(for all the regulars, don't worry, you are pretty safe).

[mendhak]

But then the persecuters would go to hell for executing the just and kind and good people. Since no just, kind and good person would want to persecute, we'd have to put all the no-good, lousy, rotten people in charge of the persecution and execution process.

HOWEVER, since they are no-good, lousy and rotten, they would NOT execute the just, kind, good people... because they are no-good, lousy, rotten people who won't perform their duties and stick to their word!

[crptcblade]

I like the Wizard of Oz...

[Shaggy Hiker]

Ooooo twisted.

Still, I think history has shown that there is always somebody willing to step up to the plate and kill off anybody who appears to be very good.

[baja_yu]

This has to be the stupides question I saw in my entire life. Congratulations.

[crptcblade]

Ooooo twisted.

Still, I think history has shown that there is always somebody willing to step up to the plate and kill off anybody who appears to be very good.

I'll kill anybody except myself for $50k

[Bonker Gudd]

I bet you eat eggs.

When you eat an egg you eat the soul of a chicken. Can you live with that?

[mendhak]

Not if it's a scrambled egg. Then it's just the soul of a retarded chicken. And we know that retarded chickens have no souls.

[Bonker Gudd]

You could be denying that you ate the next feathered Jesus

[demotivater]

But then the persecuters would go to hell for executing the just and kind and good people. Since no just, kind and good person would want to persecute, we'd have to put all the no-good, lousy, rotten people in charge of the persecution and execution process.

HOWEVER, since they are no-good, lousy and rotten, they would NOT execute the just, kind, good people... because they are no-good, lousy, rotten people who won't perform their duties and stick to their word!

Granted, the original question is dumb. But. that's a pretty nifty reply. Not only would they not execute because they're no good - why would the want to knowingly send someone to paradise when they know they are damned to hell?
What to go capsulebabala, you're enciting a riot!

[Pino]

In world eventsnow so no more chitchat

[mendhak]

In world eventsnow so no more chitchat

Uhm, why?

[nufc4eva]

what a horrible subject to talk about, hardly uplifting.

[Pino]

Uhm, why?

Because this is more of a 'real' forum

[Shaggy Hiker]

Only the people are imaginary.

[Shaggy Hiker]

This has to be the stupides question I saw in my entire life. Congratulations.

Just out of curiousity, why? It appears to be consistent with christian teaching, though not christian practice (which doesn't really seem to practice what it preaches).

[demotivater]

It appears to be consistent with christian teaching, though not christian practice (which doesn't really seem to practice what it preaches).

I highly doubt it. More likely, someones misundertanding of Christian practice. I'm sure someone actually educated in this area could answer the question in one sentence.

[yrwyddfa]

This is a question for the religious people who are against abortion.

What happens to aborted fetus's? Do their souls automatically go to heaven?

If yes ...

Wouldn't it be the ultimate act of sacrifice for a mother to abort her child?

Think about it.

She is committing a grave sin so her child will go directly to heaven.
Because if she gives birth to her child, there is a good chance that her child might not accept the chosen religion, therefore be sent to burn in Hell for all eternity.

Chew on that contradiction for a while.

Well, oh Mr Enlightened one. Answer this . . .

I can hold out my hand, and look at my hand. It is a marvellous collection of cells - but on it's own it is not alive

I can hold out my arm, and look, and feel, smell, and touch my arms. It is a wonderfully complex part of my body (look at the myocin reaction) but on it's own it is not alive but the cells in it are

I can look at my whole body. Remarkable complextity. But chop my head off and the body will cease to exist - but the cells and tissues in it are.

When YOU can tell me what makes something alive or dead and what makes a cell alive and what makes it die you will

(i) enable human beings to live forever
(ii) answer the question of humanity about unborn children.

Until then, well, you know what I'm going to say . . .

Apart from that posting a thread entirely designed to promote an argument of hate, distrust, and general apathy has no part of this forum.

(Oh and as a sidenote . . I understand your question, and I know what you really meant. But the grammer, and philosophical undertones are entirely contradictory. I would suggest you go on a 101 course before you start a thread like this again)

[Shaggy Hiker]

From those last two posts, it appears that there is nobody yet on this thread who feels they actually know christian teaching. I know only enough that this appears contradictory. When those nice, slightly strange, folks in the cheap suits come knocking on my door asking me to pray with them, somehow I don't feel that they have a much more refined view than I have.

If it takes a religious scholar to understand this (nobody here has actually answered it, and most have dodged the question one way or another), then why aren't more people asking that scholar? It appears that they don't know the answer, but it also appears that they don't want to ask the question.

[demotivater]

From those last two posts, it appears that there is nobody yet on this thread who feels they actually know christian teaching. I know only enough that this appears contradictory. When those nice, slightly strange, folks in the cheap suits come knocking on my door asking me to pray with them, somehow I don't feel that they have a much more refined view than I have.

If it takes a religious scholar to understand this (nobody here has actually answered it, and most have dodged the question one way or another), then why aren't more people asking that scholar? It appears that they don't know the answer, but it also appears that they don't want to ask the question.

Religious scholars probably answer these questions all the time. But I doubt they do it on a computer programming internet forum.

[baja_yu]

From the original post, it felt like the person (finally) found a way to "silence" the religious people who are against abortion. And I feel that they are strongly pro abortionist.

I would just like to note that, I am against abortion. My last argument would be religion. I am more against it for humane reasons.

I also think that people that are are pro abortion are mainly young people, who, because it is readily available and cheap, see it as a failsafe procedure on which they can rely in case an unwanted abortion occurs. And because of that, it encourages risky behaviour and unprotected sex.

To all those who are pro abortion, I suggest you watch the short documentary called "The Silent Scream", it can be easily found on the internet.

I can only justify abortion in certain circumstances, like a terminal or degenerating illness of the child etc.

[Xanith]

From those last two posts, it appears that there is nobody yet on this thread who feels they actually know christian teaching. I know only enough that this appears contradictory. When those nice, slightly strange, folks in the cheap suits come knocking on my door asking me to pray with them, somehow I don't feel that they have a much more refined view than I have.

If it takes a religious scholar to understand this (nobody here has actually answered it, and most have dodged the question one way or another), then why aren't more people asking that scholar? It appears that they don't know the answer, but it also appears that they don't want to ask the question.

I dont think you need some scholar to answer this question. "Thou shall not kill" from the 10 Commandments should cover it.

X

[Valleysboy1978]

I'm sorry but to be "pro-abortion" or "anti-abortion" is frankly short sighted as nothing is ever that simple. A young girl recently raped is now pregnant, but she should not be forced to endure a 9 month pregnancy from this heinous crime. Abortion should be decided on the complexities of each case by the relevant doctors, social workers etc.

[FunkyDexter]

I'm sorry but to be "pro-abortion" or "anti-abortion" is frankly short sighted as nothing is ever that simple. A young girl recently raped is now pregnant, but she should not be forced to endure a 9 month pregnancy from this heinous crime. Abortion should be decided on the complexities of each case by the relevant doctors, social workers etc.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Abortion shouldn't be viewed as a 'quick fix' but to simply say 'never allow it' ignores the realities of life.

This is a question for the religious people who are against abortion.

What happens to aborted fetus's? Do their souls automatically go to heaven?

If yes ...

Wouldn't it be the ultimate act of sacrifice for a mother to abort her child?

Think about it.

She is committing a grave sin so her child will go directly to heaven.
Because if she gives birth to her child, there is a good chance that her child might not accept the chosen religion, therefore be sent to burn in Hell for all eternity.

Chew on that contradiction for a while.

1. You couldn't assume that the fetus's soul goes to heaven, Christianity contains the concept of original sin.

2. To a christian, it is Gods decision as to when you die, not a mothers. The mother therefore cannot claim this as a virtuous act.

3. Murder is murder and would be a far greater sin than sending your child to heaven is a virtue.

4. Good can come from evil acts but that doesn't mean the act isn't evil.

BTW, I'm not a Christian but the point above seem obvious to me.

[baja_yu]

I'm sorry but to be "pro-abortion" or "anti-abortion" is frankly short sighted as nothing is ever that simple. A young girl recently raped is now pregnant, but she should not be forced to endure a 9 month pregnancy from this heinous crime. Abortion should be decided on the complexities of each case by the relevant doctors, social workers etc.

Exactly what I mentioned above.

[MasterBlaster]

For roman catholics it comes down to original sin and final judgement. Everyone is born a sinner. What you do with your life gets you to your final destination on judgement day. I guess seeing that a fetus never broke one of the 10 commandments It would probably won't neeed to book an airline ticket to hell. However, the mother and doctor and nurses performing the operation would.

Abortion IMHO is about as big of a suckerpunch that anyone can throw. Of all the chicks I know that have had abortions, not one of them has a day go by without regretting the decision. Yes even the one who was a violent rape victim. A child is still a child no matter how it got into you. I was on the fence on this issue like some of you until I had my own son. Let me tell you, having a child is the greates gift you will ever get. You may only get one shot at it so don't blow it.

The only case I can see an abortion necessay is in a case where a pregnancy will kill both the mother and child. That case is so rare in modern countries with the medical resources available that it hardly makes for an interesting argument.

BTW: a fact I just read, due to the advances in c-section births, the average size of human heads are increasing. Something to do with larger headed babies and mothers dying during child birth. pretty neat.

[damasterjo]

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/...article_03.htm
read the 3rd paragraph

[Valleysboy1978]

Well that is enlightening. Apparently it is against the bible to marry someone not of your religion....how very discriminatory, and how very sad in this modern world

[MasterBlaster]

Well that is enlightening. Apparently it is against the bible to marry someone not of your religion....how very discriminatory, and how very sad in this modern world

I dunno, it sort of makes sense. If someone actually follows the bible teachings down to that level of scrutiny, it would probably be a good Idea that they marry someone who shares that belief. Marriage is a PITA to begin with, conflicting religions just make it even worse. I think the point they are making is that you should marry someone you are compatable with.

[damasterjo]

I dunno, it sort of makes sense. If someone actually follows the bible teachings down to that level of scrutiny, it would probably be a good Idea that they marry someone who shares that belief. Marriage is a PITA to begin with, conflicting religions just make it even worse. I think the point they are making is that you should marry someone you are compatable with.

Yes that is true, if you did not have a marrage mate that had similar intrests and likes, you wouldnt get allong, likewise differing religious beliefs would conflict with one another, which might damage the marriage and make it hard to keep good spritual values.

[Shaggy Hiker]

1. You couldn't assume that the fetus's soul goes to heaven, Christianity contains the concept of original sin.

2. To a christian, it is Gods decision as to when you die, not a mothers. The mother therefore cannot claim this as a virtuous act.

3. Murder is murder and would be a far greater sin than sending your child to heaven is a virtue.

4. Good can come from evil acts but that doesn't mean the act isn't evil.

BTW, I'm not a Christian but the point above seem obvious to me.

That argument assumes that all actions taken by the mother are selfish. Certainly she shouldn't expect salvation for that act, but that's not the point. Is the act altruistic? The target benefits, at the cost of the perpetrator. By your argument, any cost to the perpetrator should dissuade them from benefitting their child.

Basically, christians seem to be treating heaven as a consolation prize: You really don't want to go there, but if you have to go somewhere, that's better than the alternative. However, the statements I have heard is always that heaven is a reward, not a consolation.

Since we are into disclosure, my view is that if there is something after death, and my actions are deemed insufficient for salvation, then I am content with that. It is axiomatic (assumed to be true) in most religions, that god is good. I see no conclusive proof of that assertion, and plenty of proof that the issue remains in doubt. If the axiom is false, then "The lord is my shepherd." takes on a whole new meaning. After all, shepherds eat plenty of mutton.

[Valleysboy1978]

Yes that is true, if you did not have a marrage mate that had similar intrests and likes, you wouldnt get allong, likewise differing religious beliefs would conflict with one another, which might damage the marriage and make it hard to keep good spritual values.

Really? I have had a couple of girlfriends who were deeply religious (one catholic the other christian). However it was never an issue as we respected each others beliefs and leave it at that.

So I have to find a girl who enjoys computer games, karate, getting drunk with the boys and lazing around....I think I'm going to be single for the rest of my life according to that philosophy!

Ever heard the phrase "opposites attract"?

[demotivater]

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/...article_03.htm
read the 3rd paragraph

Argh! Jehovahs witnesses!! I wouldn't refer to that when looking for a general view on these issues from Christians.

[MasterBlaster]

Really? I have had a couple of girlfriends who were deeply religious (one catholic the other christian). However it was never an issue as we respected each others beliefs and leave it at that.

So I have to find a girl who enjoys computer games, karate, getting drunk with the boys and lazing around....I think I'm going to be single for the rest of my life according to that philosophy!

Ever heard the phrase "opposites attract"?

Girlfriends ans Wives are two totally different beasts my friend

[Shaggy Hiker]

I know a guy who is not religious, but who's wife goes to church every Sunday. I never asked him about it. Apparently, it is possible to have a mixed faith marriage, but it sure seems tricky. I suppose if both are backsliding <your faith here>, that would work out ok.

[MasterBlaster]

Yeah, my buddies wife is like that. The lucky basterd gets to watch football undisturbed every Sunday