Why is Internet Explorer better?

[bulletrick]

Don't get me wrong, guys. I am a Firefox user and really love it. Sometimes, I am just thinking why others are still using IE and refuses to use Firefox.

There are already a lot of threads discussing why Firefox is better, maybe this thread would give IE lovers the chance to air their voices.

[fahad k]

The only reason people are still using IE is because it comes along with Windows plus I guess they arent aware of FF.

[dee-u]

Don't get me wrong, guys. I am a Firefox user and really love it. Sometimes, I am just thinking why others are still using IE and refuses to use Firefox.

There are already a lot of threads discussing why Firefox is better, maybe this thread would give IE lovers the chance to air their voices.

There has been discussions on this topic, have a search!

[nothingofvalue]

The majority of people who use a computer are not exactly computer literate and also are not really even looking for a new browser. Most of them are not even sure what a browser really is, they just know that they click on the little blue "e" in order to surf the net. As fahad pointed out, IE comes on there computer so they just use it. As far as they know, that is the only way to experience the internet.

[bulletrick]

There has been discussions on this topic, have a search!

Yep. But most of them are for Fox users to say why it is better. This thread is for IE users to say why IE is better.

Let them talk why IE is better.

For Fox users, if possible, please avoid posting the "goods" of Fox. Hehe. We already know them. I want to hear the "goods" of IE in the point-of-view of IE lovers.

[gigemboy]

nooooooooooooooooooo! not another one...

[bulletrick]

If there is already a thread by IE users saying the good side of IE, please give the link.

[Ideas Man]

Who cares, I use IE, and I CHOOSE to use IE. I am not going to be told what to do by a bunch of brainless Borg like "USE FIREFOX" people just because they have been put under the spell. For some people, IE is quite good, that's THEIR choice, what really ticks me off is the constant hammering of "use firefox", "IE suxors" etc. etc. whenever IE or any web browser is discussed, a bunch of people who act like the Borg and run under the notion that "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" crop up and don't shutup. Believe it or not, FIREFOX is NOT that good! It's over-hyped by people who have a hatred towards Microsoft, and the sheep who follow them. I will admit, there are features that are lacking in IE, but I don't go around whining whenever anyone says "I need help with IE" that they should be using firefox, these people make the browser look stupid, like they have NFI what they are on about, just constantly chanting the same lines over and over again.

So, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, why, oh why over the internet do we have to have these ridiculous threads that end up turning into grounds to assimilate any free thinkers who either don't have firefox or even think a tad negative towards it?

[bulletrick]

Hey, I have a good idea. What if instead of just saying, "Use Firefox!", we should say, "If you are not happy with your browser, use Firefox!"

[Ideas Man]

Nah, I'd prefer it if it ceased altogether, it might have been alright when it first came out, but now it's just an annoying, thread hijacking thing.

[RobDog888]

IE 7 Beta 2 came out last week and it still isnt ready for release obviously but it now has alot of "features" that all those FF'ers were saying are the reason FF is better. So now the playing field is leveled as far as features are concerned.

If you want to do a Windows Update then you need to use IE, end of story unless you dont run windows.

[RobDog888]

I just had to.

[fahad k]

I want to hear the "goods" of IE in the point-of-view of IE lovers.

This thread wont last long unless RobDogg spams it.

[Hack]

Moved to General Developer

One very large reason that people still use IE is because, in the work place, they are forced to. I'm employeed by one company and am doing onsite developement at another. Both are huge corporations, and both have set IE as the standard. In fact, the computers rolled out to employees are set up in such a way as no other browser is even possible to use.

Someone has already mentioned that fact the many computer users are not computer literate. So, if, because of their company's policy, they use IE at work, it would only seem natural to use it at home simply because they already know how it works.

IBM is the only company that I'm aware of that has made FireFox a standard. As long as companies continue to make IE a standard, most people will continue to use IE.

[szlamany]

I am extremely computer literate

I use IE because my customers use IE.

As a consultant it is my job to be an expert in the products my customers use - that's why I've been successful as a software developer owning my own software house since 1986.

I've got junior programmers that cannot stand the look of XP - set their PC's back to classic mode. What a huge mistake that is.

It doesn't matter what is better or what is worse - it's all about what is used by the majority of people.

[Hack]

I use IE because my customers use IE.

it's all about what is used by the majority of people.

Amen and Amen

[Invincible]

I've got junior programmers that cannot stand the look of XP - set their PC's back to classic mode. What a huge mistake that is.

Can you elaborate on why a choice of theme can be a huge mistake?

[bulletrick]

Can you elaborate on why a choice of theme can be a huge mistake?

Maybe because they are a consulting firm, they need to know what and how customers use their software.

Not using the default theme of XP can be a mistake because the system usage might have differences when using the classic style.

[szlamany]

Can you elaborate on why a choice of theme can be a huge mistake?

Exactly as bulletrick said - you want to develop for the customer base - you want to know exactly what a color you select or a frame you make looks like to your customers.

You want MY COMPUTER where it belongs - you want the look and feel to match what you customers are using.

XP got all round and curvy - prior win's were all boxy and sharp. Subtle differences in the size of the task bar - these are real issues...

Retaining a connection to a nostalgic old version of something has absolutely no business-legs to stand on.

Getting used to OUTLOOK 2003 was difficult. WORD 2003 with the "reading panel" - that one I had to turn off because it destroys proper pagination - otherwise I would have left it turned on.

[penagate]

If you want to do a Windows Update then you need to use IE, end of story unless you dont run windows

Auto updates don't need any browser...

[szlamany]

Some of my clients use a product called MIND MANAGER - very nice graphical "project planning and tracking" tool.

I don't know what else it interfaces with - but it interfaces with OUTLOOK and IE. It's got toolbar buttons added right up top - easily can grab an e-mail or whatever from a standard-MS product and incorporate it into the "project plan".

There is a reason MS is the #1 company - it's all the thousands of ISV's and even bigger development shops that embrace these basic tools and utilize them so that there customers have a 100% integrated experience.

Linux? Why? FF? Why? Some google-version of OFFICE products? Why? There are so many applications needed by the users of the world, why decide to re-write OFFICE? What kind of business model is that? Investors too dumb to realize that in the long run all they did was fund some developers having a good time!

[Invincible]

Exactly as bulletrick said - you want to develop for the customer base - you want to know exactly what a color you select or a frame you make looks like to your customers.

But that is the same when you develop a web page. You check develop it checking it in your favorite browser. But when you get closer to the finish line you test it out in more browsers so you are sure it works in all of them. The same can be done with a theme too. After all, it is just a team. It is not like I am developing all my web pages checking them every other second in IE, just because 60% of my users use IE.

I think you are completly wrong when you call a choise of theme a huge mistake, as long as you make sure it works for everyone before release.

[szlamany]

I think you are completly wrong when you call a choise of theme a huge mistake, as long as you make sure it works for everyone before release.

I'm not sure what size clients you have - but we have customers with 1000+ PC's over dozens of buildings - wan/lan - extreme size enterprise applications.

My statements are related to the experience I live.

Most of my customers IT departments lock down as much as possible - so that the clerks, administrators, teachers - whoever - using the system are having the exact same experience.

That's a real-world business requirement.

They have help-desk teams of 4 or 5 people to support these operations.

That requires a standard.

Hearing that IBM adopted FF still means they have a standard. They didn't say, oh let's just add another option for our users. They carefully considered the ROI of making this choice. I'm not in the minds of these people - I cannot imagine what made then go this way - but I'm sure the ROI was #1 consideration.

When I go over to one of my junior developers desks and they have a classic theme on - and I cannot find where RECENT DOCUMENTS are - then they have lessened the productivity of the office. That costs $$'s.

[penagate]

Linux? Why? FF? Why? Some google-version of OFFICE products? Why? There are so many applications needed by the users of the world, why decide to re-write OFFICE? What kind of business model is that? Investors too dumb to realize that in the long run all they did was fund some developers having a good time!

You have to realise, not everything is about the best way to make money. The three products you mentioned operate under a completely different business model to Microsoft. I could say they decided to "re-write" Office because Office is a bloated heap of crap, but that would not help very much. No, the three ones you listed just happen to be open source. People can learn from them, people can contribute to make them better, and anyone can use them for free. It is a community effort, not a way for some giant corporation to get richer; which, no matter how good or bad their products are, is all they stand for. I think you have misunderstood the very principle behind open source. The developers might have had a good time, they might not, but they did it for a clear reason.

[Hack]

You have to realise, not everything is about the best way to make money.

It darn sure is if you are a commerical developer!

[penagate]

None of the products mentioned are commercial.

[Invincible]

I'm not sure what size clients you have - but we have customers with 1000+ PC's over dozens of buildings - wan/lan - extreme size enterprise applications.

We are 8000 people working here. We have costumers all over the world. Now you know.

An OS or theme or a language is just a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

[szlamany]

FF becomes commercial to IBM when they adopt it...

LINUX become commercial when one of my school districts puts it into the network as a sort of gateway for outside users to TELNET into old mainframes...

As soon as you add a "tool" like this to your setup you support costs increase.

And it is all about money - what else can it be about? Cost of implementation and the return on that investment can drive a business out of business.

[szlamany]

We are 8000 people working here. We have costumers all over the world. Now you know.

An OS or theme or a language is just a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

With an organization that size don't you have an IT department that dictates certain aspects of what a user can do?

[tr333]

IBM is the only company that I'm aware of that has made FireFox a standard.

The French police have also moved to firefox (and possible Mozilla Thunderbird).

[Invincible]

With an organization that size don't you have an IT department that dictates certain aspects of what a user can do?

There is some apps that can't be used because because of security and bandwith problems, like P2P apps and games.. but you are free to chose the OS you want. I have colleagues here who use Windows in many different flavours, Macs, many different Linux versions, *nix, FreeBSD, Solaris, and so on. Doesn't matter as long as they are all pulling in the same direction.

The IT department just turn off attacmhments and ZIPs and stuff like that every time there is a new Virus out there, and there is no fix for it yet. They are not there to block us but to protect us. Only the fantasy can stop us.

[RobDog888]

Ok, I am awake now.

IE is not popular because of companies that "force" users to use it. IE is even popular with consulting firms like where I used to work. Only the boss used it and everyone else used IE, including the developers and IT support staff.

FF'ers like FF because it has more bells and whistles and that makes them think its better. Sure there are some rendering differences but the net is still predominantly IE. You cant say that everyone is forced to use it. Its avaliable for free just like FF so it could be that IE is more stable and has more of a history the FF. People trust IE as its written by MS and who else would know how better to take advantage of all Windows has to offer then MS?

[Invincible]

Ok, I am awake now.

IE is even popular with consulting firms like where I used to work. Only the boss used it and everyone else used IE,

Are you sure you are awake?

[Invincible]

....who else would know how better to take advantage of all Windows has to offer then MS?

Doesn't mean they know how to take advantage of the Internet...which IE is a proof of...

[Hack]

Ok, I am awake now.

IE is not popular because of companies that "force"

Not popular with who?

95 to 99% of the non-IT people I know and/or work with could absolutely give a rats behind what they use as long as it gets them to where they want to go.

[RobDog888]

I am saying that even if "some" companies force a standard of IE that this is not why its popular. If that was true then why dont we see more companies force their employees to use FF? I dont think you will see too many companies doing that. Sure they will be a few but nothing signifigant.

Right, most users are basic users and dont care which is best only that they work.

[Hack]

Right, most users are basic users and dont care which is best only that they work.

Bingo!!!!

I was doing some reading on Firefox the other night. As I've mentioned in other threads, I think I'm going to download it and install on one of my PCs at home to check it out. While I was reading my wife came over and sat down and, like all wifes, wanted to know what I was doing.

I explained what I planned on doing and she asked me to explain to her, in terms she could understand, what benefits Firefox has over IE for a non-computer person. I couldn't give her any answers.

[RobDog888]

One additional point is that the bells and whistles also play a signifigant part in getting an IE user to switch to FF. Not a valid reason to me for a switch.

[penagate]

One additional point is that the bells and whistles also play a signifigant part in getting an IE user to switch to FF. Not a valid reason to me for a switch.

What bells and whistles?

[RobDog888]

The dumb FF extensions. FF'ers seem to love them more then the browser itself.