FireFox vs IE

[Hack]

I did a forum search on "FireFox" (and got 500 returns ), and read many of them. Every once in a while, I actually came across a post from someone that offered logical reasoning behind their opinion, but not very often.

By in large, most of what I read could be summed up into: FireFox is cool and IE blows.

I want something more concrete than that.

I would like to hear some tangible, real-world reasons why FireFox is a better browser than IE.

Admins and Super Mods: If you see any post in this thread that has nothing more illuminating than "IE sucks", please delete it. Thanks.

[NoteMe]

- More secure.
- Regular updates.
- Extension so you can make it fit your hands perfectly.
- Themes so you can make it look like you want (small, big, funny, stylish).
- Faster renderer.
- Compatible with many more web standards.
- Much faster controlls (list boxes and so on)
- Quick bookmarks (I can just write "g hello world" in the address bar, and it will search google for "hello world", or just type v, and it will go to VBForums.com)
- del.icio.us extension, that makes me able to have all the same bookmarks at work in what ever OS I use, as well as my machines home and my laptop.
- Mine, Canders, and Nebs wonderfull vBulletin extension.
- And Tabs you can costumize like you want.


Well, that is the most obvious reasons why I use it over IE at least.



- ØØ -

[Hack]

- More secure.

How so? What is it that makes Firefox more secure than IE?

- Regular updates.

Updates are either bug fixes or enhancments. Which are these?

- Extension so you can make it fit your hands perfectly.

I have no flippin' clue what you mean by this. How does a browser fit in your hand?

- Themes so you can make it look like you want (small, big, funny, stylish).

Completely and totally irrelevant

- Faster renderer.

First one so far that needs for further explanation.

- Compatible with many more web standards.

What are these standards? In what way is Firefox more compatible with these standards, and in what way does IE depart from them?

- Much faster controlls (list boxes and so on)

Well, all right. Speed can be good

- Quick bookmarks (I can just write "g hello world" in the address bar, and it will search google for "hello world", or just type v, and it will go to VBForums.com)

Sounds like a great feature for someone that doesn't like to type

- del.icio.us extension, that makes me able to have all the same bookmarks at work in what ever OS I use, as well as my machines home and my laptop.

Second one so far that needs no further explanation.

- Mine, Canders, and Nebs wonderfull vBulletin extension.

Third one

- And Tabs you can costumize like you want.

Another irrelevancy.

I want to go on record as saying that I am neither pro nor anti FireFox, not am I pro or anti IE. At this point, browsers, to me, are kind of like socks. I really don't care what I have as long as it does the job. To me, a browser's job is to get you from point A to point B

Anyone else have an opinion?

[mendhak]

How so? What is it that makes Firefox more secure than IE?

Try going to a spyware infested site with Firefox.

[Harsh Gupta]

well i dont know much about all the technicalities of Web dev, but here my 2 cents for what NoteMe posted and you questioned:

How so? What is it that makes Firefox more secure than IE?

Pop-up blocker. IE does not have this feature and most of the viruses and worms and SpyWare/Adware find their way to your PC through them.

Faster renderer. - First one so far that needs for further explanation.

in terms of graphics, FX is far better than IE. in fact Opera is too better than FX in terms of graphics. i can cite an example when my friend tried updating few pages of our college's site Disc. Forum, the page loaded and viewed better in FX than in IE. (i think Penagate can provide more deatils on this topic).

few from my side,
- Better Find This Page option. FX searches more faster than IE.
- Download manager. it seems helpful at times
- Provides Help for IE users

Harsh Gupta

[NoteMe]

Try going to a spyware infested site with Firefox.

Or just surf the web with IE a couple of weeks, then check for spyware, then do the same with Fx a few weeks, and then check for spyware again, and see the difference...

[mendhak]

In favor of IE, IE loads faster than FF because of its integration with the Windows shell.

[sevenhalo]

Pop-up blocker. IE does not have this feature...

[si_the_geek]

No support for ActiveX controls or other nasties obviously stops some pages loading properly, but you can have a right-click extension to view a page in IE (and set it to always use IE for that page/site if you want).

Extensions are basically add-ins that let you do things more easily, or change the way the browser operates - my favourites include one for changing Tab options, one which includes "Wayback this page" in right-click menus, and one for a dictionary search of the selected text.

After using Fx for several months, I can happily say that the ability to customise tabs is not "Another irrelevancy.", it makes the tabs work as you want them to (I personally dont want to close/mix tabs if I click with a certain button).


The multiple tabs is fantastic - I can have several VBF tabs open at the same time (threads to come back to later etc), without having to open all my IE windows in turn to find the one I'm looking for - as the pages titles show in the tabs. I now feel lost in IE.

[NoteMe]

How so?What is it that makes Firefox more secure than IE?

think I already answered that.

Updates are either bug fixes or enhancments. Which are these?

Both... When was last time you saw a new browser from MS? No new feautures, nor upgrade of the new web standards at ALL. The web is evolving all the time, and the browser has to follow. Like new 1.5 version of Fx has:

Faster Browsing
Automatic Updates improved
Tabbed Browsing updated
Improved Pop-up Blocking
Integrated Search improved
Better security for privacy of data
Live Bookmarks update
Next Generation Web Support

and if there will be a bug, it doesn't take 2 years to fix it...

I have no flippin' clue what you mean by this. How does a browser fit in your hand?

Tasks you often do can always be enhanced in one way or an other. Easier access and tools that make you more productive. Thats what they are all about.

Completely and totally irrelevant

Not really. Like I am using a really really small one, that makes me with much more web page into my screen. In stead of having that big things stuck on the top...

First one so far that needs for further explanation.What are these standards?

I guess you where supposed to have a NO there somewhere?

In what way is Firefox more compatible with these standards, and in what way does IE depart from them?

IE doesn't have fully support for CSS, Fx has mostly CCS2 and some CSS3, and then you have JavaScript and all other things that only web developers konw the name of, but looks good when you visit a page. I have a link somewhere with examples for you, but I don't have time to find it right now. Date in 10min, and I need a shower..

Well, all right. Speed can be good

Can? Speed is ALWAYS good, except if you are in bed with a girl....

Sounds like a great feature for someone that doesn't like to type

It is all about speed and productivity...

Second one so far that needs no further explanation.

http://del.icio.us/noteme ..

Third

Thanks, you can donate money now..

Another irrelevancy.

Not really if you do a lot of stuff at the same time. I often find my self having 10 browsers window open at the same time and VS, and PSP and music and word and emacs. Makes it a lot faster and cleaner to have all the browser windows in tabs then Windows windows..

I want to go on record as saying that I am neither pro nor anti FireFox, not am I pro or anti IE. At this point, browsers, to me, are kind of like socks. I really don't care what I have as long as it does the job. To me, a browser's job is to get you from point A to point B

I know what you mean. I hated my teacher for giving all this Mozilla propaganda in class. but I guess it is like with religion. You hate everyone that preach about it, untill you see the light....



Ask again if there was more. If my date goes wrong, I will answer tonight...
- ØØ -

[Hack]

The very prevalent theme that I'm hearing in all of these posts is that FireFox provides much more security than does IE. This certainly is a VERY important feature, and I thank everyone that has posted so far.

I'd like to turn now to something that NoteMe said in his first post.

- Compatible with many more web standards.

This is an intriguing statement. What are these web standards? How does FireFox adhere to them and in what ways does IE not?

[RobDog888]

Isnt it the w3c standards? I dont believe that statement either. I see allot of posts about how our pages dont display correctly in FF.

[Harsh Gupta]

@sevenhalo, that feature is not present in IE on my PC. so probably, older IE versions dont have this feature. or maybe 98 dont support it (nah rubbish, it should be IE version). sorry then.

@Hack, thank you the 2nd gem

[RobDog888]

I think it comes with SP2 Harsh? I am running XP SP1 w/IE SP1 and I dont have it either.

[Hack]

I think sevenhalo is showing the Internet Options page from FireFox, not IE. (And I didn't see NoteMe's other post when I posted the question about standards)

[RobDog888]

I think its IE as from his quote

Pop-up blocker. IE does not have this feature...

Plus, it has the same tabs and look/size as IEs options dialog. So if its not IE then FF has done a good job copying IE, yet again.

[si_the_geek]

Nope, it's IE's

I'm pretty sure it did come with SP2.

Isnt it the w3c standards? I dont believe that statement either. I see allot of posts about how our pages dont display correctly in FF.

That's the ones, and it is technically true. As for pages not displaying properly in Fx, that is usually down to pages written specifically for IE rather than the 'proper' standards.

I personally have no issues with any pages (VBF or otherwise), except occasionally the 'Smilies' box on the reply page moves to the right a bit.

[thegreatone]

I think it comes with SP2 Harsh? I am running XP SP1 w/IE SP1 and I dont have it either.

It comes in SP2, in fact, this was the update that brought about the whole "security Centre" thing for Windows XP.

Hack, as far as it goes with web standards, CSS2, CSS3 (you know, that make the pages look and feel how they do) are rendered correctly, and in fact, IE doesn't support them at all. As with XHTML, IE simply renders it how it likes, often totally wrong. Wheras Fx supports XHTML, and a page written properly in XHTML will display fine.

The problem of pages not working in Forefox is usually due to one of two reasons, firstly, the page may use an IE specific feature, or an Active X control. Or, secondly, the page could have been written with IE in mind, and, seen as IE's rendering engine isn't quite upto par, will not work on Firefox.

Also, if you're wanting an even faster version of Firefox (no registry editing or user cache on disk) you could always look into Protable Firefox.

I'm not sure if this has any relevance either - http://news.com.com/Next+Explorer+to...3-5813897.html

[Jacob Roman]

I want to go on record as saying that I am neither pro nor anti FireFox, not am I pro or anti IE. At this point, browsers, to me, are kind of like socks. I really don't care what I have as long as it does the job. To me, a browser's job is to get you from point A to point B

Anyone else have an opinion?

Web browsers may get you from Point A to Point B, but it's more than just that. People are wanting more speed, security, efficiency, and productivity. I remember back when I was introduced to the internet the first time back in '95 when we had these 14.4 and 28.8 Bps external modems on the Macs in the school library. It took forever to load these pages, like 2 - 5 minutes a page. Then years later, we got Cable, DSL, T1's, etc., that just blew the doors wide open for the world. Pages now load up literally instantaniously! Which means more products are purchased online, more information is obtained to the user, and the worlds economy skyrockets.

And since FX is a major step up over IE by speed, security, efficiency, and productivity, then it would make sence to choose FX over IE. Soon it will be as fast Opera (or even faster) in the near future.

[Merri]

The web standards are defined mostly by W3C, although not all of them are defined by them. The purpose of the web standards it to ensure web sites are viewable no matter what the browser, allowing anyone access the sites.

Internet Explorer doesn't have a full support of any of the standards. It also has a lot of bugs with the standards. It does work well enough, but it has a lot of things to do better. Most often, when making a modern website, you need to add a separate CSS and possibly IE6 specific fixes to make a site work like the other browsers do.

Firefox supports, besides the standards IE6 has, a lot of other standards. Some of these are full PNG image support (often smaller than GIF, also can have more colors and a multilevel transparency), SVG support (vector images, can be sized freely)... humm, I can't even remember all. Firefox also supports these standards very well, although not perfectly (no browser does). In general, this makes Firefox better choise for the web developers and users can get better sites, although developers need to take care of the older browsers as well. This allows the web to continue to develop further and not stop into certain level (as it did with IE6 dominance for a couple of years).


One major thing you need to notice about security is that Firefox is updated quickier with security patches than IE. Where with IE a patch can take from a month to over a year (and too many less important security issues remain there), Firefox is often patched within a week and most of the security issues are fixed. This makes it less of a good thing to make anything malice to Firefox, because it is very likely to be fixed already when anything gets done.

As for the popup blocker, Firefox's blocker appears to be the best on the browser market. Personally I've never had an issue with it. With IE's blocker I've had popups that do open and even cases when I haven't got a warning a popup has been blocked. IE's blocker causes more annoyance.


The design of Firefox is also pretty solid: it is easy to use and has some innovations. For example, the search bar that is much more friendlier to use than IE's search window. You write a word and Firefox looks for the word in real time. It also clearly shows when it reached end of the page and jumped to beginning. There are many small, yet nice user friendly features like this.

Extensions also give a lot more power to Firefox: as NoteMe already said, it can be made anything you wish a browser to be. By default Firefox all the basic needs (personally this is the way I have Firefox), but with extensions you can add features that seamlessly fit into the browser. Firefox has native support for extensions, thus it gets much more of them, they're developed and updated faster and they're easy to keep up to date (due to the native support). Customizing Firefox is easy, if one ever wishes to do that.


The bookmarks system is also better than IE's, as you can really handle all the bookmarks. IE's bookmark system is meant for a very small amount of bookmarks and it can become a real bother to handle a lot of bookmarks. Firefox's system is more flexible, faster and nicer to use. You can also setup the bookmarks toolbar, which is a handy place to have bookmarks in. Actually I never used bookmarks before Firefox, because they were so much of a bother to handle. You can also take backup of the bookmarks easily, not to mention all the related extensions.


But I guess the most important "feature" is that it just gives less headache in general. You don't need to curse a lot thanks to how the browser works. And if you miss something, you can get it. If something annoys you, you can change it.

[Jacob Roman]

As for the popup blocker, Firefox's blocker appears to be the best on the browser market. Personally I've never had an issue with it. With IE's blocker I've had popups that do open and even cases when I haven't got a warning a popup has been blocked. IE's blocker causes more annoyance.

Some websites unfortunately are bypassing FX's Pop Up Blocker somehow, and you end up with pop ups anyways. Like PSC for example. You think the creaters of FX will fix this?

[RobDog888]

Really great last 4 posts guys

But for bookmarks IE can place them on your Links toolbar band so its easily accessible with a button click. I think the real benefit would be most of the things described in the latter posts. Usually everyone is always - use ff is better but never gives any technical backup for the reasons.

[sevenhalo]

Sorry to leave you all in suspense; had to get food

It's IE, SP2 (with "silver" windows theme).

Si was right on

Edit------
Also, shame on the rest of you for not installing your SPs. No wonder you hate IE if you're using outdated versions.

[Jacob Roman]

Really great last 4 posts guys

Hehe, thanks. I can feel the love already.

Personally, my only complaint with Firefox is the download method. It's kinda annoying that files must always download to my desktop or some other fixed location chosen, which forces me to minimize everything, copy the downloaded files from the desktop, open my harddrive directory, and click on a bunch of folders till I reach my destination, and paste. Some people save it to the desktop so it's easier to delete later on, but I like to keep them and organize my files. Saving them to my own target path just feels more comfortable.

[Harsh Gupta]

And if you miss something, you can get it. If something annoys you, you can change it.

Very Well said.

[RobDog888]

Oh what a pain in the blank! I love to direct my downloads to a particular path and then go about my business or download another to a different location. I f I have to always go back to a downloads folder then I may forget its there. Plus, the extra effort and time needed to manage this in FF.

[Jacob Roman]

Like I said, it's ok for some people, and not ok for others.

[Hack]

Is this just NoteMe being NoteMe, or does this actually mean something?

- Extension so you can make it fit your hands perfectly.

[Merri]

It is a saying translated to English. It'd work in Finnish as well. It basically means Firefox can be customized to your needs, and if you like, by meaning it is the same I said with "And if you miss something, you can get it. If something annoys you, you can change it."

[Hack]

It is a saying translated to English. It'd work in Finnish as well. It basically means Firefox can be customized to your needs, and if you like, by meaning it is the same I said with "And if you miss something, you can get it. If something annoys you, you can change it."

Thank you

[Merri]

Oh what a pain in the blank! I love to direct my downloads to a particular path and then go about my business or download another to a different location. I f I have to always go back to a downloads folder then I may forget its there. Plus, the extra effort and time needed to manage this in FF.

However, you can always open the downloads folder via the download window. Just click the flat button where Firefox tells where it saves the files. You can also change the downloading setting to work so that files are saved where you want them to be saved. Although there is a slight mistake in this method: they've forgotten the possibility to open the folder when the file has been downloaded (but only when you've chosen to automatically clean the downloads window, which is how I have it). Besides that special case it works rather nicely in my opinion. It could be better though.

[Merri]

Some websites unfortunately are bypassing FX's Pop Up Blocker somehow, and you end up with pop ups anyways. Like PSC for example. You think the creaters of FX will fix this?

Firefox 1.5 already has better popup blocker than 1.0.7, but advertisers keep looking for ways to bypass it. So it is unlikely it will become perfect, but it does keep most of the junk out. The same goes with other browsers, their blockers will be worked out by the advertisers in a way or another.


The newest popup trend is to open new divs inside the window, not as a new window. Some of them are impossible to close until the advertisement has been watched.


Edit: and sorry for posting so many messages in a row, hard to keep track with all the message as I just had a sauna and my brains are recovering

[RobDog888]

Yes, I have seen these. They look like cool fancy borderless windows but since they are not new browser windows you can not prevent the "popup"

[Jacob Roman]

However, you can always open the downloads folder via the download window. Just click the flat button where Firefox tells where it saves the files. You can also change the downloading setting to work so that files are saved where you want them to be saved. Although there is a slight mistake in this method: they've forgotten the possibility to open the folder when the file has been downloaded (but only when you've chosen to automatically clean the downloads window, which is how I have it). Besides that special case it works rather nicely in my opinion. It could be better though.

Will be looking forward to this fix for when a later version of Firefox comes out. Someone should email them that suggestion.

[thegreatone]

Yes, I have seen these. They look like cool fancy borderless windows but since they are not new browser windows you can not prevent the "popup"

How long before a browser offers "Div pop-up" protection ?

[sevenhalo]

How can you not do this in IE though?

In the options, you can assign IE to use your own CSS (Tools>>Internet Options>>General>>Accessibility>>Format Documents Using My Stylesheet).
And as far as ActiveX and AddOns go, you can enable or disable them.(Tools>>Internet Options>>Programs>>Manage AddOns)

The only thing that FF seems to have diferent (atleast to me) is that it gives you easy menus and wizards. But all of the same rich controls and features are avaliable for IE, just not preinstalled (Internet Explorer Addons)

[Merri]

How long before a browser offers "Div pop-up" protection ?

We have Ad-block extension already, so if you want to, you can use it to block those annoying elements It can block any unwanted element on a site as far as I know; I don't use it myself though.

[Jacob Roman]

We have Ad-block extension already, so if you want to, you can use it to block those annoying elements It can block any unwanted element on a site as far as I know; I don't use it myself though.

For FireFox? Where can I get it?

Wouldn't mind double the pop up protection.

[Merri]

Will be looking forward to this fix for when a later version of Firefox comes out. Someone should email them that suggestion.

They already know it I happen to read what is going on in the background every now and then and downloads manager is one of the things to be changed.


Adblock: http://adblock.mozdev.org/

• Edit: darn, that appears to be the first one. There are more than one Adblock now that I remember...
• Edit: Here, Adblock Plus 0.6 thread somewhere: http://www.geekstogo.com/forum/AdBlo...ox-t92790.html
• Edit: If interested, there is also GreaseMonkey extension that allows you to customize any site to what you want: you can add DHTML to add new features.

[Jacob Roman]

It was updated from version 0.6 to 0.6.04.