[RESOLVED] RE: RSS Aggregators.

[kaihirst]

Hi,

im obviously looking at it too closeely or missing some valuable bit of infor on this. but here goes.

If you have an RSS feed on your site such as rss.xml and you want others to view it, how does an aggregator work and what does the page look like opn the other peeps site??

for instance. Writeing a CMS at the mo and gonna have RSS feds on there. Now Ive wrote teh feed, and it has all the usual stuf like channells and all that crap. Now.

I ned to know how to get it to them (using a publisher I assume) then I ned it displayed in an orderly format (thsi is where the aggfregator comes in) so I know the logistics, but I dont know how they work, how my RSS feeds will be inserted and viewed by the reciepients.

Also, If I have RSS feeds, what the hell is the point of having them when I can simply send them a link and such so they HAVE to come to the site and use the service... Can somebody also tell me that one, and hwy an RSS feed will actually attract peeps to the site....

And what about updateing do I have to resubmit the link to the publisher, or agfregator.

Help me out here as ive been looking at this for ages and really getting on my tits now.

Rep points available!!!

Kai

[kaihirst]

Hi,

Right then think ive got it

Aggregator.

Collects the feed information..

Need infor on where to get these from, where what, the usual...

Publisher

does exactly what it says on the tin... (ronseal for those british peeps.)

peeps like Feedfire and such do this dont they??

But now then.. so if I get my RSS feed on the publisher, and want a specific clients web page to have this feed, hwo do I get it specifically to them, from the publisher and not have them go to the poublisher??

Ta

Kai

[kaihirst]

Hi

So now I find out thers a reader!!! Classic I miss the obvious again...)

but that doesnt explain how my peeps get that reader and my feed to thiem directly.

Help still needed!!!

Kai

[CornedBee]

The RSS reader, whichever you use (I use the one built into Thunderbird), will periodically query your page for the RSS feed. If it has changed, it will then alert the user.
Usually, the feed contains a title for each item, which the reader will most likely display in an overview. The feed can also contain a summary of the item, or perhaps the whole text. The reader can choose to display either, perhaps depending on the user's settings.
Alternatively, some readers understand HTML completely. These readers can (and Thunderbird will) take the URL that is usually part of the item and display that page instead.

So how do you get at feeds? Well, with most readers you enter the URL of the site, and it will scan it for feeds. The best way to signal availability of a feed is using the link element. For example. this snippet can be found at W3C's front page:
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="RSS" href="http://www.w3.org/2000/08/w3c-synd/home.rss" />
Firefox will, upon encountering such a link, display the LiveBookmark icon in the status bar, which you can use to create a bookmark folder linked to the feed.
Thunderbird, in contrast, can't scan pages. You have to add the RSS URLs manually in the feed account options. You can go into the source code of the page and grab the URL, but luckily, most pages also provide a textual link somewhere that you can just copy. Often, a smal "XML" or "RSS" image is used too, such as at the bottom of this page:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/

[kaihirst]

Hi,

Ok then.

so I have my news page.. Build an RSS link for it and submit it and the aggregator collects, it then the publisher publisheds it.

so then the browser that the client who wants to read it has to have a reader installed into their browser, and now as I understand it, not all browsers have Fantasic. Waht a pile of SH*T...

So ineffct its a simple way of link orming that is industrially and universally eacepted as its regulated for acceptable methods of information...

WOW....

So lemme sum this up.

I build a page with a new article on it. Build an RSS feed for that page with a brief descrption. Submit it to a pugblishers whos aggregator collects all the info on it, then publishes it on the web, then my clients reader has to access this published RSS feed by subscribing to it.

so what if they dont have a reader, such as IE doesnt have one built in?? wht then..

do I ask my clients. " Oh sorry.. Youre browsers a pile of poo, so go th this blogbot and install this then subscripbe to it, then do this that and the other, whil going about your datys business."

I thin you can guess what theyll say on this one...

Any thoughts on this or am I on the wrong track on this?

Cheers

Kai

[CornedBee]

For heaven's sake, check your spelling before you post!

I'm not sure what role aggregators usually play in this, as I don't care about them. Most pages I use directly publish the feed.
Some use a service that translates the one feed they publish into different formats (RSS 0.9, RSS 2.0, Atom 1.0 usually), because not all readers support each. I suppose you could call that an aggregator.

[techgnome]

If they don't have an RSS reader.... then they are probably not going to be looking at your RSS feed anyways. And if they do, there are literaly hundreds of RSS readers out there. Some work online, some integrate into your web browser others (like the one I use) are standalone.

Aggregators. Do exactly that. They aggregate. They take feeds from multiple locations, aggregate it for you and provide you with a single list of everything. Your reader then uses this aggregated list and displays it for you. In a lot of cases, your reader does the aggregating. I know mine does. It also allows me to organize it, so I can see everything all at once, or compartmentalized into categories.

How do you know if you have some one using your feed? You don't. Well, not directly at any rate. Your weblogs may show something.

Attracting people to the site with RSS. RSS should NEVER, ever, contain the entire article. It should contain: Date, author, title, link, and introduction/snippet/excerpt/teaser. There is other information that can go into an RSS feed, but that's the bare minimum. The user see there is an update, they read the excerpt and decide they want to read the rest. They click the link and it takes them to your site. It is a way of allowing others to easily keep up with your site, see that there is new content and visit when they want to read more.

And it's good for you because the server load is minimal, and you don't have to worry about lots of people hitting the site just to see if there's something new. Hosts hate it when you use alot of their processor time.

-tg

[kaihirst]

WOOTT!!! for tech....

Cheers mate, you ve nearly cleared this up..

that leaves only a few questions left.

So... Is it a good practice to point them in the right direction for a good reputable reader should they not have one? and which ones do you recommend..

And, roughtly how much bandwidth does an RSS feed take up, as this site or CMS rather will have a hell of alot of them.

And which publishers does everybody recommend, free and costed ones.

Also, so youve got a reader, which publishers does it talk to? and how do my clients sactualy subscribe to my RSS feeds??? How esy is it? and how time consuming is it??

Cheers all

Kai

[techgnome]

YOU are the publisher.... you are the one creating the RSS File.....
Readers/aggregators will read ANY RSS file, as long as it has the proper format.

I use SharpReader.... but there is also GatorFeeder, ThunderBird can also read RSS, as can Outlook. You want to know what's out there? Google for "RSS Reader"..... you'll find more links than you'll know what to do with.

RSS feeds take minimal bandwidth - that's part of the advantage - it's all text... so no images are downloaded or anything. Just the text.

And as anything on the site, it's only going to use bandwidth when it's actualy requested.So the number of feeds is irrelevant.

How long does it take to subscribe? For me- about as long as it takes for me to copy a URL from a website, paste it into my reader, hit go, then subscribe. About 5 seconds. If even that long.

But that's because I usualy keep my reader up and running. It will vary from user to user and reader to reader.

-tg

[kaihirst]

Hi ..

ok nearly got it!!! (phew!!!)

Th eURL... is it the url of the page your RSS points to, or is the URL or where the feed code is located?

Im assuming its the page where the feed is located, then the feed points to the page, but what ive looked at is asking for a html page, nad not a .xml page, but whats the use of puting the ULR pointer in the FEED if youre pointing the aggregator to eh page directly?? So what gives??

do you have

www.helloworld.co.uk/rss.xml

or is it

www.helloworld.com/newspage.asp...

hmmm

getting there!!

Kai

[techgnome]

Readers/aggregators typically want www.helloworld.co.uk/rss.xml
BUT... there are some that will ask for www.helloworld.com/newspage.asp ... and it will search out what RSS feeds it can find and ask which one you want. When I subscribe, I point directly to the RSS Feed, because that's what my reader wants.

-tg

[kaihirst]

Hi,


So best practice format is this.

register your rss feed as the actual xml document that the feed is located.

then th RSS feed will point to the URL tht it is referred to.

but that still bekons the question.

How will my clients know where my RSS feeds are to subscribe to them and other people when I dont tell them?

Cheers

Kai

[techgnome]

Try this: Go to my website: http://tannagh.com .... scroll all the way down to the bottom.... all the way..... in the site footer yo uwill se: Subscribe to: Entries (RSS) or Comments (RSS). ..... they are links to my RSS feeds....That's all you should need to do... provide a link to it. Or, you can supply it as text, with the URL visible, with some sort of text: "You can get the RSS Feed for this site by using the URL: http://tannagh.com/feed/ in your RSS Reader."

You'll notice that my feed begins with feed: ... that's because some readers associate themselves with the feed: protocol. Just like http: is registered with web browsers. Some recocnize it, others don't .... it's not a standard as far as I know.

-tg

[kaihirst]

Hi..

Right then... So you could post a link with the keyword feed to your RSS page, saying click here to subscribe and, theyre gonn aget what.. A page with RSS on it, or instructions on how to subscribe? or wen you click on the link, their reader is gonna recognise it immediately? What...

Clicked on your links and they effectvely did nothing at all so good idea, but sorry mate not helped.

Cheers Tech

Kai

[techgnome]

That's proly because they have the feed: in front of them. If you don't have reader that recognizes it, then you won't get anything. Open your reader... right click on the link and copy the URL to your clipboard. ... Then in your reader, paste the URL, remove feed: from the front (it's something added by the system I use and is a point of contention amonst the users on it's usability in this matter) and click what ever it is to make your reader read. You'll then see the feed .... which will vary depending on how exactly it renders the info.

-tg

[kaihirst]

Hi,

right then. So I take the feed away from the link and add that, then thisll take it to your homepage right? Gotcha... right?

But... Besindes form having to mail everybody for their individual RSS feed, how can I optimize my feeds for the general public so that I can maximise traffic???

Ta

Kai

[techgnome]

beats the heck out of me..... I found most of my traffic comes from me visiting other sites and leaving comments on their blogs... I'm not in marketing so I wouldn't have the first clue.

-tg

[kaihirst]

Agreed ... funny business marketing and web marketing..

so let me just run through best practices ive got here or roughly outlined here.

1. have the aggregator point directly to the file where the feed is.

2. URL straight to the page thats relevant.

3. Description decisive and to the point

4. Constantly update to give best resutlts...

What do you think about having a RSS link to the homepage as well, for those aggregators that recognise this format ?? or is that too much??

Ta

Kai

[CornedBee]

Regarding your point 4, the RSS should be auto-generated from your CMS's database. Updating the feed should happen automatically.

[kaihirst]

Hi,

Gotcha, but the best practices points are valid and should be put in place when designing RSS feeds do you think aslo taking into your point about dynamic updating?

Ta

kai