COBOL or suicide?

[gtilles]

OK,
a little overeaction but I've been programming for 7 years, I went to school for VB beginning and advanced, Java, C++, I've done embedded firmware in C,
I taught myself PHP, ASP and feel very proficient in these languages, because I've been a fast learner my boss wants me to take up some slack and do COBOL, well for some reason I am not getting it. After 2 weeks he said he was disappointed in me because I wasn't picking it up- and now I am starting to be hard on myself and am wondering what block is keeping me from understanding this language. This code I am working on is 10 to 20 years old and seems convoluted to me. Is it understandable that programmer of newer languages will have a hard time learning the older ones or am I some how disabled in the brain more than I want to admit? I'm feeling like I want to walk....

[techgnome]

COBOL isn't an easy language for anyone. When I was going through my technical training for the Air Force, it was the only section the entire class failed on. And this is after learning Ada, Assembler, and others.

Start by looking for familiar constructs. Every language has some kind of loop, if/then, assignment operators, and a starting & ending point.

-tg

[StrangerInBeijing]

I dont' know Cobol, but my friend back home was studying computer science, and she, inlcuding 90% of the class, failed Cobol. I know she's not stupid, so...

Hope I am not rubbing salt in your wounds.

A boss that talks like that to an experienced developer like you, aint worth working for if you ask me.

[Hack]

I passed my class in COBOL, and am very happy to say that after 25 years in IT, the only time I've ever written any COBOL was in the class room.

I also have been exposed to other languages such as C++ and Assembler, and have done my fair share of them, and I would pick any other language but COBOL to use.

If you are having a hard time understanding COBOL, it does not mean you are "disabled in the brain."

Quite the contrary. It means you are normal.

[wossname]

I'd take suicide over COBOL any day. Brain death will result in either case anyway.

[Dnereb]

I've done Cobol until the teacher went ill. (wonder why?)

My two cents....
Cobol is outdated for decades.
Ask your self what do you gain by learning COBOL?

[gtilles]

Thanks to all who responded....I'm feeling better about it.
The COBOL we use here is of course a legacy system that we are migrating out of in the next 2 years. I just happen to be caught in a situation were my boss thinks if he can get me up to speed on COBOL he get rid of the current COBOL programmer who he doesn't happen to get along with. Watching her work with it I can tell it is frustrating. I'm just going to keep putting my best foot forward and hope something falls into place for me before I throw in the towel!

The funny thing is all the little projects he gives me to learn COBOL he could do himself very quickly and be done with, seems a inefficient use of resourses when we have new development I could be doing.
Oh well....I guess we all to to suck it in every once in awhile.

[gtilles]

Just a quick addition...
Some of the programmers that I've talked to have said that COBOL is easy then in the same breathe say, glad I'm not in your shoes,
Now what's that all about!

[Hack]

Just a quick addition...
Some of the programmers that I've talked to have said that COBOL is easy then in the same breathe say, glad I'm not in your shoes,
Now what's that all about!

They are saying it was a pain for them to learn as well, but they don't want to come right out and admit it to you.

[space_monkey]

The strictness and wordiness of cobol makes it a pain in the rear, but the wordiness also makes it somewhat easier to use for non mathmatical types or those who haven't been using other languages for any period of time.

[StrangerInBeijing]

my boss thinks if he can get me up to speed on COBOL he get rid of the current COBOL programmer who he doesn't happen to get along with.

Worked for someone that came up with that kind of schemes, and eventually sacked me after I started b!tch!ing for more money as I worked over 70 hourse per week, just to keep things going.

Just saying....Won't work for a boss like that again

[Shaggy Hiker]

Worked for someone that came up with that kind of schemes, and eventually sacked me after I started b!tch!ing for more money as I worked over 70 hourse per week, just to keep things going.

Just saying....Won't work for a boss like that again

gtilles, listen to StrangerInBeing. The person you are working for sounds like bad news. Pushing you into COBOL so they can fire somebody else that they don't get along with? Your head will be on the block at some point in the future. I wouldn't trust that guy.

[dglienna]

I did COBOL for a few projects over many years. Once you learn it, it comes back to you quickly. I don't think it is that hard to learn, but it has evolved over the past few decades. First it was COBOL I, then COBOL II, then verions with color, and version with graphics. It depends which version you are using.
There is even a version that runs in Net. It used to be free for download, but by the time I got Net, it was no longer free.

[aristoxenus]

With a little time you'll learn cobol just fine. Once you've done that, take heed of all these people's warnings about your boss: sounds a little too manipulative and blame-shifting, and not worthy of a quality asset like yourself. Don't tell him you're job hunting until you have an offer, preferably signed.

[kaihirst]

Hi,

COBOL is an arse to learn. Best off starting withte hloos and conditionals that fragment and compartmetalise every language ever developed. then start with the naunces and idividualities.

But if youve got a choice. . AND what is a compny doign useing COBOL anyway in this day and age??? they must be either usign a databse thats 30 years old, or using operating systems that are specifically configured to spool 16 bit language operations.

AND IN ADDITIOn. uponthe arrival of longhorn, with the exeption of linux, your bolloxed as far as souricing for it in the next 3 years. A language cna only go so far a to keep on living and breathing new life into itself, and cobol's time is up..

Come in number 59, your time is up.......

Dont believe me, visual basic is onyl 15 years old adn thats outsourcee alrady..

ta

kai

[StrangerInBeijing]

Dont believe me, visual basic is onyl 15 years old adn thats outsourcee alrady..

Oi...and now you gonna start another one of those "VB vs The World" argume nts.

[kaihirst]

i wil learn to keep my keyboard shut one of these days!!!

ta

kai

[gtilles]

Well since I started this thread I thought I might keep you all informed.
As kaihirst said 'It is a Arse to learn"
I managed to actually edit a fiile and insert an address into a report.
Sound benign enough but let me tell you it sucks.
I would recommend though that todays programmer at a minimal try it out because you kind of get to see how we got to where we are today. And we should be thankful! As for me....I'm biding my time....it's only a matter of the classified gods!

[kaihirst]

I agree totally on that one Gtilles, that every programmer should at learst look at it.

I started with basic 1.0 wich predates all DOS programming ( if you partially exclude JAVA for Atari, but not really DoS), then moved onto COBOL and I never looked back
(still got the manuals and reference guides in my library I think...)

Personally, I rekon programmers get too comfortable with all the IDE's, toolkits and other helpful stuff, and this is why I agree with you.

It is because of tall this 'helpfull' stuff that programmers have forgotten the art of classic debugging, and proper design coding which is why all trainees that wwalk throgh my office door, get to use notepad for all design work.

Godd job on the addresss report though, pity about the language throgh!!!

ta

kai

[dglienna]

I told a co-worker that I'd help her with a COBOL problem years ago, and had her come over to my place. Little did I expect it, but she showed up with an 8,000 page print out! She had a problem in one section of code that was pretty easy for me to spot, and she was happy.

It was COBOL/2 off an IBM Mainframe, but the programmers had PC's.

I asked her why she hadn't put the program on a diskette, and she replied that she didn't know how to! I didn't say anything, but figured that she deserved to be carrying listings around. She managed to move up and out, though. I wonder if I influenced it?

[StrangerInBeijing]

had her come over to my place. Little did I expect it, but ...She had a problem..that was pretty easy for me to spot, and she was happy.
she didn't know how to! ..She managed to move up and out, though. I wonder if I influenced it?

Geez, this is a programming forum!!!

[wossname]

ASM whups Cobol's ass (and everything else's for that matter)

[dglienna]

Yes, but 8000 pages of assembler would drive anyone nuts!