General DoomSharp() Discussion

[NoteMe]

Then I must have misunderstood what your idea was. Care to run it past me again? I can't see how you'd represent 6 sides per grid square just by using a 2d array.

First of all I can' see how you are representing 6 sides in your 2D modell either, and that was why I asked in a post if if was possible to have different types of floor and roof too. Something you never answered at.

The representation in the editor will still be the same as your red and whte picutre. Click to change and click a texture to use it somewhere. I just showed you the file format, something you actualy didn't do..:


And the wallparts can not be in an array. Or actualy they can, but that is just time consuming. They have to be objects with pointers to left and right....I can't see what you need a cupe for...the BSP tree deals with wallparts...

- ØØ -

[wossname]

First of all I can' see how you are representing 6 sides in your 2D modell either, and that was why I asked in a post if if was possible to have different types of floor and roof too. Something you never answered at.

I'm building an editor program not a file format, the contents of the file are not meant to be human readable. When you click on one of the squares, its properties will show up in a box and you can change each texture from there. hopefully it'll be drag&drop so no messing around with numbers all the time.

Have you got any links to an explanation of how BSP's work? Preferably one an idiot like me can understand.

[wossname]

Cubes wont' be a part of the game once the level is loaded, they are jsut a way of grouping adjacent wallparts together easily.

[NoteMe]

I'm building an editor program not a file format, the contents of the file are not meant to be human readable. When you click on one of the squares, its properties will show up in a box and you can change each texture from there. hopefully it'll be drag&drop so no messing around with numbers all the time.

Well then we are not talking about the same thing...so there is nothing to argue... My file format both covers the walls and the textures....

Have you got any links to an explanation of how BSP's work? Preferably one an idiot like me can understand.

I think this is the easiest one. And it also contains links to lots of different pages with more in depth algos and codes.

http://maven.smith.edu/~mcharley/bsp/

[NoteMe]

Cubes wont' be a part of the game once the level is loaded, they are jsut a way of grouping adjacent wallparts together easily.

But do they contain 4 or 6 objects that I can add to a binary tree?

- ØØ -

[wossname]

Well no, some cubes will only have 2 (floor and ceiling) if its in the middle of a big room. Others will have 3,4,5 or a maximum of 6.

Do they all need to have the same number?

[wossname]

Not that it matters because all the map loader will do is pass an array of wallparts to the 3d engine at game start-up. You can feel free to arrange them in what ever structure you want after that.

[NoteMe]

Well no, some cubes will only have 2 (floor and ceiling) if its in the middle of a big room. Others will have 3,4,5 or a maximum of 6.

Do they all need to have the same number?

No they don't have to have that. The only thing I need is ONE wall part in ONE object.

[NoteMe]

Not that it matters because all the map loader will do is pass an array of wallparts to the 3d engine at game start-up. You can feel free to arrange them in what ever structure you want after that.

Not that I can see why you need an array for this, because then you are doing twice the work. I just have to split them up in wallparts after all anyway. One wallpart is ONE node in the Binary tree.

- ØØ -

[wossname]

Oh yeah !!!!!!!!!

Branched tunnels!! 4 cubes arranged in a T formation...

[wossname]

And a wonky angle...

[MrPolite]

dude this is awesome
noteme sucks (jk, maybe he can ask you why though)

I'm sorry, my internet connection died when you showed this to me. It couldnt' handle it.

so can you actually "move" in the game right now? it looks quite impressive

[wossname]

Thanks mate

Can't move yet, we still haven't hooked up the mouse-controls (i'm currently hardcoding camera coordinates and recompiling each time) but Note's writing that so I'll let him get on with it. I don't want to completely disrupt everything he's written

[NoteMe]

I have made the camera class ages ago, so the only reason why it can't move is because wØØsy is so darn lazy. He should be shot right now...one thing though....are we down to 6FPS now?



- ØØ -

[wossname]

No, its just the JIT compiler making the first frame slow, after that its about 12-13, but again we are drawing walls taht are behind other walls so don't worry about it.

If you had written your camera class properly then it wouldn't crash all the time when you use coords like (0,0,0)

drunken party viking.

[NoteMe]

Boooo.....just make sure it is never 0.0.0 then you **** wit.....*****.....I think it was pretty well written since I never had any time to test anything and that I was just coding blind folded...


But remember that we also need time for the BSP, and that will make it drop even more...and rooms can be bigger then this...so I think we are starting to struggle again..


- ØØ -

[wossname]

its not just (0,0,0) it crashes all the time with lots of different coords. Divide by zero errors i think, lots of NaN's appearing in the data.

maybe we could get away with it by adding 0.0000000001 to all the coords before dividing, that would have no impact on the graphics?

You like the screenies?

[NoteMe]

At least in C++ there is a function to test for NaN, I didn't know if C# had it at the time the evening when I wrote all this. I will ceck if there is one. If there is then we can use that one to test it. Much better then adding some number to it.


Yeah, I really like the screenies. but I just found out that I can't install VS 2005 at home though...


- ØØ -

[Phill64]

hey wossname,

care to post a screenshot of that T-junction with distance darkening on?

[wossname]

At least in C++ there is a function to test for NaN, I didn't know if C# had it at the time the evening when I wrote all this. I will ceck if there is one. If there is then we can use that one to test it. Much better then adding some number to it.


Yeah, I really like the screenies. but I just found out that I can't install VS 2005 at home though...


- ØØ -

Damn, why not? That's going to be a big problem.

Anyway, good news on the framerate topic: I have just speeded up non-perspectivized image drawing by 140% at the expense of the smooth textures, i finally figured out how to switch off antialiasing for DrawImage(). (I'm kicking myself now because it was SOOOOOOO obvious and I actually knew it already at the back of my mind, what a dumbass).

Haven't tried it with warped images yet though.

speedups can be gained by applying these setings appropriately:

graphics.InterpolationMode = nearestneighbour
graphics.PixelOffsetMode = none
graphics.SmoothingMode = none

It will look a lot rougher (jaggy and pixellated but it will run much faster) I just had it enlarging a 64x64 image to 300x300, 1000 times in a loop and it took 1812 milliseconds approx as opposed to the old method which was about 4 seconds!!!

There are varying degrees of speed/quality we can use depending on the user's system speed. faster machines could use high-quality, crap machines could use NearestNeighbour. We should be able to go fullscreen at 1280x1024 without problems

EDIT: Yes it DOES work with warped images too, 2.7 times faster!!!!!!!!!!! 30 fps here we come baby!!!

[wossname]

hey wossname,

care to post a screenshot of that T-junction with distance darkening on?

I wish I could but now its up to the 3d engine to pass me the distance values for each wallpart, I can't specify them in my test code at the moment. As soon as we have it you'll see it here. Watch this space.

[NoteMe]

Damn, why not? That's going to be a big problem.

Because when I try to download it, it only downloads an install file.....and that is a problem....since I can't just take the install file home..

BTW I just puked again. I have no idea why I am at work right now.


PS: Why are you using 2005 anyway....what do you use in 05 that you don't have in 03 or 02?


- ØØ -

[wossname]

I need 2005 for the book and i have no other copy of .net. Also its generally a lot better than 2003.

Note, you should order the DVD from Microsoft then.

[NoteMe]

Hehe...I am not using anything that 05 can do that 03 can't do. And I hate the reason "it is just better" that is the third time I have heard today.....

[wossname]

Maybe because its true (#4)

[NoteMe]

I should really smack you in between all the times I am hurlying/puking/talking-to-the-elk here....

[wossname]

Go back up a few screens and read the bit where I more than double the framerate and then come back here and smack me

[wossname]

Well, i've made the necessary changes to the code and i'm now getting 19.5 fps from the same scene, which is over double what I had last night (this is my home computer rather than my works one).

Its a bit rough but you can still clearly make out corners of walls. We can safely say that we will need a fairly grunty PC to run this very well.

[NoteMe]

Hehehe...yeah..it really looks like AA just died..:..well well...at least we are drawing..



- ØØ -

[NoteMe]

Go back up a few screens and read the bit where I more than double the framerate and then come back here and smack me

I'll smack you anytime.. No problem..


BTW if I have a struct, is it possible to have one of the members as an array witout using the "new" word?

IE something like this:

struct helloWorld{
    float x[3];
    string morro;
};

in stead of

struct helloWorld{
    float[] x = new float[3];
    string morro;
};

It looks so terrible compared to C++....


- ØØ -

[wossname]

Yeah we can do that no problem but it'll need to be initialised in the struct's constructor. if you explain what you want this for i'll talk you through it.

[NoteMe]

I fell asleep last night. THis sick stuff kills me. But I posted it here now:
http://vbforums.com/showthread.php?p...68#post2131868

so if you have the time, and noone else answers before you, then I would appreciate some help..:





[Edit] Sorry, just need this link, and I have nowhere else to store it at the moment...

http://forums.microsoft.com/msdn/def...ForumGroupID=9



- ØØ -

[wossname]

ok, I replied to it but I'm wondering why you need it. If you need a binary file demo I can show you.

[wossname]

Speed is creeping up slowly, gradual optimisations in drawing operations and so forth.

There seems to be a gap between the wall panels for some reason, this may be because of a difference in resolutions in the texture files or something, not sure yet.

There are a few compiler settings that improve execution speed too.

[NoteMe]

Why did you start a new thread....

It would have been really fun to see if the VS 03 or VS 05 would be able to make the fastest code here. Since VS 03 is making more unpure code then 05 is anyway..

I noticed the gaps in one of your other pictures too, looks weird. Looks like the wall to the right there is nearly bendt in a weird way...

[NoteMe]

I gave you the whole reason now.....I forgot to bring everything with me from work on friday anyway. My CDs, this project, even my crutches....I hurled once more at work, then fell asleep on the toilet, then went home....OMG I have NEVER been this bad in my whole life...I think my imune system is TOTALY worn out after all the alcohol and smily faces and stuff down at Ibiza...blahhh...I'll just blame that Paris Hilton gave me this sickness...


- ØØ -

[uniquegodwin]

ok guys,please give me the source code of your programs as soon as possible so that I can see it and learn how you did it

[NoteMe]

There is still miles to go to be done. Don't think it serves any purpose to hand out unfinished and smashed code. At least I have a tendensy to leave things hanging, and don't comment code before i am sure it is supposed to be that way for the rest of the project. Havn't seen wØØsys code yet, but I have a feeling it is not as pretty as he want it yet. But when it is done, I guess it will be free out in the open. At least everyitng I have done..


- ØØ -

[wossname]

Oops, didn't mean to. Can someone move it back inline with the DoomSharp thread please

This is the texture bug I've ben talking about all the time. Its made worse when the camera is pointed down or up a bit. Its not so bad when the camera looks horizontally.

[wossname]

ok guys,please give me the source code of your programs as soon as possible so that I can see it and learn how you did it

We are most gratified that your enthusiasm for our project continues unabated.

We shall be releasing the entire unabridged code when we are happy that it won't go any faster. I plan to use adaptive quality rendering that chooses rendering settings based on the PC its running on. Basically it'll measure the framerate, if its very high it'll turn up the complexity until it a nice compromise between frames and smoothness is found.

Update:
I've made a start on the map editor, most of the GUI is in place, just wiring up all the bits now. can't run the game again until its finished though.