are we making a mistake

[OrdinaryGuy]

the more I see the US supporting them, the more I think we are making a big mistake like we made by first arming osama to fight the soviets...
http://www.howardbloom.net/Wakeup_or_Shutdown2.htm

[CORONA BEER]

Supporting who? Osama is a CIA agent.

[mendhak]

Isn't that how it all starts? Pakistan, Iran, Korea, Syria...

[CORONA BEER]

Look at it this way, we're screwed. You think Bush is an idiot, he's not even the one running/ruining the country. The so called election was a fraud. They've got more wars ahead so load your Glock and pray. America's turning into a Police State BTW, look around, camera's, antenna's going up everywhere, cops wearing ski-masks. Yes we arm certain enemys if not all, like Terrorism it's a pretext for war, or a total Apocalypse if they want.
war = control over populations

[honeybee]

Look at it this way, we're screwed. You think Bush is an idiot, he's not even the one running/ruining the country. The so called election was a fraud. They've got more wars ahead so load your Glock and pray. America's turning into a Police State BTW, look around, camera's, antenna's going up everywhere, cops wearing ski-masks. Yes we arm certain enemys if not all, like Terrorism it's a pretext for war, or a total Apocalypse if they want.
war = control over populations

LOL, I remember that's precisely what the wise people said before the whole Iraq war episode started. Of course words of wisdom are always lost on the arrogant.


About the Iraq war, I think it's slowly turning into a modern vietnam for the US. You can't pull out because then you have permanently wrecked the country and it's too obvious. You stay and you keep fighting them for years and years, while the violence will simply keep escalating. There's simply no plan, not for staying and not for pulling out.

And why is everybody silent now about the motives behind the war? Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Where is Osama Bin Laden? It's quite amusing to see how a once most powerful nation succumbs to the greed of a few individuals and corporates.

.

[OrdinaryGuy]

Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Where is Osama Bin Laden?

.

And where is the oil?? Where has the US been stealing Iraqi oil? Don't give me these [removed by pino - watch the language!] arguments of your's...

The war may be mishandled... but it wasn't a war for oil

[Xanith]

About the Iraq war, I think it's slowly turning into a modern vietnam for the US. You can't pull out because then you have permanently wrecked the country and it's too obvious. You stay and you keep fighting them for years and years, while the violence will simply keep escalating. There's simply no plan, not for staying and not for pulling out.

Its hardly a modern Viet Nam. First off casualties are far lower than Viet Nam. I think I remember posting before that it would take 80 years for the casualty numbers to be equal to those in Viet Nam. Second you have a friendly populace that is actively working with the US to stop the insurgency which didn’t really exist in Viet Nam. Third you have an elected government in place that is actively working on a Constitution for its people. The Iraq situation is far from a “quagmire” and far from being another Viet Nam.

And how has the country been wrecked? Infrastructure has been rebuilt with new schools, hospitals opening every day. There is an active stock market and trade going on. There are also more freedoms that people enjoy including personal and religious freedoms. The people have a government in place they voted for as opposed to a murderous dictator who could at any time take you from home for no reason and have you killed. I guess you forgot all about the rape rooms, torture chambers, and mass graves already huh?

And why is everybody silent now about the motives behind the war? Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Where is Osama Bin Laden? It's quite amusing to see how a once most powerful nation succumbs to the greed of a few individuals and corporates.

.

As always you have boiled down the situation to the simple, “Where are the WMD’s”. Also the quest to get Osama was the war in Afghanistan not Iraq. And I am still waiting for all this cheap oil we were supposed to be getting. When are the oil companies going to seize all the Iraqi oil so I can drive my Ford Expedition Special Edition across the US getting 8 miles to the gallon.

X

[demotivater]

a once most powerful nation

What do you mean once most powerful?

[honeybee]

And where is the oil?? Where has the US been stealing Iraqi oil? Don't give me these bull**** arguments of your's...

The war may be mishandled... but it wasn't a war for oil

LOL where are the weapons??? The war certainly wasn't fought for the weapons, or do you still believe the original arguments for war? Despite memos being released which clearly indicate Bush had planned to invade Iraq at any cost and the case was simply made up for the war? That there was no real case in the first place??

When was Afghanistan invaded? More than a year back, I guess. And with "cooperation" from the Pakistani forces and the Afghan forces, bin Laden is still at large. Can you believe that?

Dude, your own government is completely confused, that's why Dick says the insurgency is in its last stages and Donald says it would last years. That's because they never expected there could be any insurgency (which alone is reason enough for them not to be in a decision-making position, because they cannot think beyond their own selfish gains).

Millions of dollars have been misappropriated in Iraq and these matters are currently being investigated.

Where is the infrastructure? Nowhere, because the US is spending too much money to counter insurgency. Which is again because of lack of planning and foresight and lack of any intelligence whatsoever.

Regarding the Pakistan - Al Qaeda relationship, India has officially and unofficially complained at numerous occasions in the past about the terrorist activities conducted by Pakistan in J&K. But the US government has always shielded Pakistan because they want to keep the region instable. Only then can they exercise their influence, politically and military-wise.

What about the Abdul Qadeer Khan affair? He was caught red-handed smuggling nuclear arms details to Iran. What has the US done about him? NOTHING. Why?

Your government is no freedom-lover. They want freedom for people from their own governments so the US government can rule them. It's as simple as that. Whether you like it or not.

.

[honeybee]

Its hardly a modern Viet Nam. First off casualties are far lower than Viet Nam. I think I remember posting before that it would take 80 years for the casualty numbers to be equal to those in Viet Nam. Second you have a friendly populace that is actively working with the US to stop the insurgency which didn’t really exist in Viet Nam. Third you have an elected government in place that is actively working on a Constitution for its people. The Iraq situation is far from a “quagmire” and far from being another Viet Nam.

And how has the country been wrecked? Infrastructure has been rebuilt with new schools, hospitals opening every day. There is an active stock market and trade going on. There are also more freedoms that people enjoy including personal and religious freedoms. The people have a government in place they voted for as opposed to a murderous dictator who could at any time take you from home for no reason and have you killed. I guess you forgot all about the rape rooms, torture chambers, and mass graves already huh?


As always you have boiled down the situation to the simple, “Where are the WMD’s”. Also the quest to get Osama was the war in Afghanistan not Iraq. And I am still waiting for all this cheap oil we were supposed to be getting. When are the oil companies going to seize all the Iraqi oil so I can drive my Ford Expedition Special Edition across the US getting 8 miles to the gallon.

X

With Donald Rumsfeld saying the insurgency could last years it could very well be a modern Vietnam. Again the number of troops lost isn't the criteria here, it's the mindset of the American people which will matter.

Regarding the whole political process and "progress" being talked about, how strong a constitution can they draft in just a few months' time? They are already fighting for power, but still are working towards a common goal because the US are pressurizing them. Once the US pulls out, they will start fighting amongst themselves, just like it happened in Afghanistan. Once Taleban was toppled, the warlords who had joined hands to defeat Taleban went their separate ways and started fighting.

Schools and hospitals? Yes, hospitals are very much required to face the daily car bombings.

Good point, that the quest to get bin Laden wasn't related to Iraq. Why is Bush making so many references to Al Qaeda when talking about the Iraq war, then? I remember this was also one of the reasons for the Iraq war, and was also proven to be false.

It's a simple situation that's why it boils down to a simple situation. It was made to appear complicated just to hide the real motives.

.

[CORONA BEER]

LOL where are the weapons??? The war certainly wasn't fought for the weapons, or do you still believe the original arguments for war? Despite memos being released which clearly indicate Bush had planned to invade Iraq at any cost and the case was simply made up for the war? That there was no real case in the first place??



Dude, your own government is completely confused.

Honeybee, I sense that you are the one who's confused. You do not understand why the war took place, therefore when someone comes on here with an intellegent post or question you go off on some rant that has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

1. There were no WMD's, understand that was a lie to support the invasion and to back up the "War on Terror" theory.
2. Iraq was not involved in the Zionist operation called 9/11.
3. Bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.
4: Iraqi oil is going to Israel, yes.
5: Americans are Dying for Israel, yes.

And why is everybody silent now about the motives behind the war? Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Where is Osama Bin Laden? It's quite amusing to see how a once most powerful nation succumbs to the greed of a few individuals and corporates.

I hope you at least know what a Zionist is, because if not then you'll get nowhere fast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist

Zionists want to defend Israel at all costs and expand Israeli territory.
Now that you got that covered let me point out a specific group of Zionists listed at the bottom of this letter. It would be a good idea to read the full letter It would help you get a better understanding of the people we are dealing with, also note the date of the letter, 3 years before 9/11, these Zionists were wanting to invade Iraq.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

So if your wanting to know the "Real Motives" of why the US is in Iraq that's your answer.
America is just following orders defeating all of Israel's enemys, and building an empire in the process. We get dead, they get what they want.
This sicko Zionists called for a "Pearl Harbor like event" to get the country behind a "War on Terror", Yes they destroyed the WTC.

Also understand that the majority of Americans are brainwashed by these Zionists. ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, People Magazine, US News and World Report and countless other media and Hollywood companies all have either a Zionist CEO, or a Zionist News President. Not to mention Zionist owned Senators, Congressmen, and media personalities, Zionist power in banking, academia, fashon and book publishing. So it's more than a few individuals and corporates.

[Cander]

And don't forget that Zionists landed at Roswell and come from the planet Zion.

Honeybee, I sense that you are the one who's confused. You do not understand why the war took place, therefore when someone comes on here with an intellegent post or question you go off on some rant that has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

1. There were no WMD's, understand that was a lie to support the invasion and to back up the "War on Terror" theory.
2. Iraq was not involved in the Zionist operation called 9/11.
3. Bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.
4: Iraqi oil is going to Israel, yes.
5: Americans are Dying for Israel, yes.


I hope you at least know what a Zionist is, because if not then you'll get nowhere fast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist

Zionists want to defend Israel at all costs and expand Israeli territory.
Now that you got that covered let me point out a specific group of Zionists listed at the bottom of this letter. It would be a good idea to read the full letter It would help you get a better understanding of the people we are dealing with, also note the date of the letter, 3 years before 9/11, these Zionists were wanting to invade Iraq.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

So if your wanting to know the "Real Motives" of why the US is in Iraq that's your answer.
America is just following orders defeating all of Israel's enemys, and building an empire in the process. We get dead, they get what they want.
This sicko Zionists called for a "Pearl Harbor like event" to get the country behind a "War on Terror", Yes they destroyed the WTC.

Also understand that the majority of Americans are brainwashed by these Zionists. ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, People Magazine, US News and World Report and countless other media and Hollywood companies all have either a Zionist CEO, or a Zionist News President. Not to mention Zionist owned Senators, Congressmen, and media personalities, Zionist power in banking, academia, fashon and book publishing. So it's more than a few individuals and corporates.

[CORONA BEER]

And don't forget that Zionists landed at Roswell and come from the planet Zion.

You wish.

[honeybee]

Honeybee, I sense that you are the one who's confused. You do not understand why the war took place, therefore when someone comes on here with an intellegent post or question you go off on some rant that has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

1. There were no WMD's, understand that was a lie to support the invasion and to back up the "War on Terror" theory.
2. Iraq was not involved in the Zionist operation called 9/11.
3. Bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.
4: Iraqi oil is going to Israel, yes.
5: Americans are Dying for Israel, yes.


I hope you at least know what a Zionist is, because if not then you'll get nowhere fast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist

Zionists want to defend Israel at all costs and expand Israeli territory.
Now that you got that covered let me point out a specific group of Zionists listed at the bottom of this letter. It would be a good idea to read the full letter It would help you get a better understanding of the people we are dealing with, also note the date of the letter, 3 years before 9/11, these Zionists were wanting to invade Iraq.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

So if your wanting to know the "Real Motives" of why the US is in Iraq that's your answer.
America is just following orders defeating all of Israel's enemys, and building an empire in the process. We get dead, they get what they want.
This sicko Zionists called for a "Pearl Harbor like event" to get the country behind a "War on Terror", Yes they destroyed the WTC.

Also understand that the majority of Americans are brainwashed by these Zionists. ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, People Magazine, US News and World Report and countless other media and Hollywood companies all have either a Zionist CEO, or a Zionist News President. Not to mention Zionist owned Senators, Congressmen, and media personalities, Zionist power in banking, academia, fashon and book publishing. So it's more than a few individuals and corporates.

Oh, that was quite enlightening! You are right, of course

.

[mendhak]

There's also the Illuminati.

[yrwyddfa]

. . . and that explains UFO's, Princess Diana's and JFK's death, the secret seven, and m$ wealth.

And to think that I believed it was all conspiracy.

[CORONA BEER]

UFO's ? You think there was an actual reason for the war in Iraq ? Other than for Israel. I'd like to hear....

Dont say oil either, 5 dollars wont even fill my car up with a quarter tank of gas.

[yrwyddfa]

UFO's ? You think there was an actual reason for the war in Iraq ? Other than for Israel. I'd like to hear....

Dont say oil either, 5 dollars wont even fill my car up with a quarter tank of gas.

I don't see a substantial causal link. Sorry.

[PineyWoodsJimbo]

UFO's ? You think there was an actual reason for the war in Iraq ? Other than for Israel. I'd like to hear....

It was to save the marshlands, fool. Maybe if you drank a better beer, you'd have figured that out.

[Valleysboy1978]

Makes you wonder though if we are on the brink of WW3

[yrwyddfa]

Nah. Still waiting for plagues and pestilence.

[Valleysboy1978]

Good point
But isn't Aids and cancer a form of plague?

[yrwyddfa]

I guess AIDS would fall into that category. I don't think cancer would, though, as you can't catch Cancer (not too sure about cervical cancer which is brought about by viral activity, though)

[Valleysboy1978]

So only pestilence and we got the apocolypse? Better be prepared for it then

[yrwyddfa]

I know a few pests . . .

[Wally Pipp]

I, along with many others on here, remember the "pre-war days": loads of people screaming abuse at "no-believing unpatriotic peacenik saddam-lovers and frenchmen alike" that Saddam a) possesses WMD's (he just doesn't want to give them up and is actively fooling the incompetent UN inspection teams), b) not afraid to use it and c) able to deploy them in 45 minutes. All that, according to them, was THE reason to invade the country, remove the dictator from his WMD's and his throne and bring peace and stability to not only Iraq but the region as well. Colin Powell exhibited all his powerpoint wizardry to convince us (the vial springs to mind).
Plus, Saddam sided with Al-Quaeda.

You were either for freedom or on the side of terrorists. If you doubted the above you were part of the latter.

That was the premise, the plan, the propaganda leaflet.

Then came the war and his aftermath. More than a year later: No WMD's found, no infrastructure to speak of, daily bombings, 39000 Iraqis dead and counting, the list goes on...

Amazingly, despite some furious backpedalling, everyone concerned seems to have forgotten the original reasons for invasion. Now you're hammering home the point that we seem to be obsessed with the WMD question.

Wasn't that what the whole mess started with?

Cruel, cruel irony. If it wasn't so tragic my sides would be splitting.

[yrwyddfa]

No WMD? Did you even read the link you posted....remember this quote? "There's no question that they have some stockpiles of some of these sorts of weapons still under their control"

Not a threat? Remember this quote from your own linked article? "So we have to continue to view this regime with the greatest suspicion, attribute to them the most negative motives, which is quite well-deserved with this particular regime"

I swear some of you run around with blinders on and only see and read what you want to.

X

http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=254191&page=5

. . . and I stand accused of using dubious sources and quotes . . . Time, as they say, will always tell.