Icon Distribution

[RobDog888]

If you extract icons from Windows for use in an app, would that violate any EULA's? Since the app will only run under
Windows wouldnt that mean that the only possible difference would be between Windows versions?

For ex. if you extract XP icons out and use in an app to give it the same look accross all versions of Windows,
would that be a violation?

[Hack]

The only issue that I could see would be if your intent was to deceive the user public into thinking your app was actually an app created by Microsoft (or whoever).

But, if it was made clear that this was a product of RobDogWare, I don't see where anyone would have an issue.

Of course, I'm just a lowly programmer, not a lawyer.

[RobDog888]

I like that Hack, RobDogWare™.

I seen over at vbaccelerator.com their Explorer Bar uses the XP Visual Styles on XP systems, but on other non-XP systems they have
similar images/icons. I dont know if they made them or what but they are using some XP icons when they run the control on 2k systems, etc.

Here is the link to the page in question.

Explorer Bar

[Hack]

It would seem that vbaccelerator provides an answer. If they can offer the full source to an example of that style of buttons and layouts, then I guessing there would be no distribution issues.

(I'm pretty much locked into what the About boxes on my apps say, but I do build in, providing you know the right key combination, a reference to HackWare )

[RobDog888]

The few inages that they do supply in their download project is the generic brown looking double cheveron button. I think
there code modifies this image to the users system colors so they only have one set of buttons. They are not distributing the IM icons or
others used in the items display. the brown dropdown images are not a Windows standard button and the XP styles images are not
distributed either. So I'm not too sure.

[Hack]

Are you talking about using these icons in a commerical application?

If so, then this issue might be worth more indepth investigation. But, if you are writing a strickly corporate application that a certain subset of the employees in your company will be using to do whatever job they were hired to do, then I don't think you need to worry that much.

[dglienna]

I don't see the distinction. It's like using screen savers. Everyone wants there own, but the company is liable for copywritten files. I'm not sure how to call this, but I would make sure before I did it.

I've emailed a contact at M$ to get his opinion. I'll post back.

[RobDog888]

Its for a commercial app and in house. It all boils down to if I can distribute an XP icon across other windows versions.

I remember that it didnt matter if it was a commercial product or private. Either way M$'s EULA I thought stated that since they didnt own
certain icons that they could authorize it, but if its only to be used in windows then I dont see what the difference is?

[Hack]

Its for a commercial app and in house. It all boils down to if I can distribute an XP icon across other windows versions.

I remember that it didnt matter if it was a commercial product or private. Either way M$'s EULA I thought stated that since they didnt own
certain icons that they could authorize it, but if its only to be used in windows then I dont see what the difference is?

I don't see the difference either, but I will be interested to here what dglienna's contact at Microsoft has to say.

[RobDog888]

Maybe his contact is mendhak? I could ask him the next time hes online. Probably a good way to go since hes got MS MVP this quarter.

[dglienna]

I haven't seen the frog online either. My guy didn't reply today, and I doubt that he will before Monday. I'm sure he'd ask someone before giving me his personal opinion.

[mendhak]

Although I do believe it is a violation if you do that for commercial apps, I am going to confirm and post again.

[RobDog888]

So it probably matters between versions but I'll wait for confirmation in a last ditch effort that there is some hope.

[mendhak]

Yep, confirmed. You're dead, boy. Better pack up and run for the hills.

[RobDog888]

Oh well, guess I'll just have to draw them out using the Graphics class.
Would that also be dissallowed, duplication by drawing at runtime?

If its not allowed then I'll floor it in my Cobra.

[Hack]

Oh well, guess I'll just have to draw them out using the Graphics class.
Would that also be dissallowed, duplication by drawing at runtime?

If its not allowed then I'll floor it in my Cobra.

Blatant duplication within a commerical app may causes issues.

[RobDog888]

Thats what I thought but there are so many companies out there actually duplicating portions of M$ Windows features I dont
know how they get away with it.

I know how to get around the icon issue by linking to the shell32.dll file which contains allot of the system icons like the red x delete icon, msgbox
icons, etc. but I see these companies using a distinctive duplication of some of Windows XP buttons and icons that I just dont know.

[Hack]

Thats what I thought but there are so many companies out there actually duplicating portions of M$ Windows features I dont
know how they get away with it.

I know how to get around the icon issue by linking to the shell32.dll file which contains allot of the system icons like the red x delete icon, msgbox
icons, etc. but I see these companies using a distinctive duplication of some of Windows XP buttons and icons that I just dont know.

It is altogether possible that these companies have an agreement with Microsoft that permits this use. I find it hard to believe that a company would use potentially copywritten anything without some type of legal acknowledgment in place.

[RobDog888]

Good point Hack. Maybe mendhak can ask his M$ buddy how I can get some kind of agreement or licensing?

[Hack]

Good point Hack. Maybe mendhak can ask his M$ buddy how I can get some kind of agreement or licensing?

Just surf around Microsofts web site. I'm sure information on this sort of thing is available, to say nothing of the fact that I'm certain they would entertain an email question regarding this (although Lord knows what email address you would use.)

[RobDog888]

But that would take away from my valuable VBF surfing time.
Not knowing who to contact or where to look for a
valid answer is the problem.

[RobDog888]

Here is one control that wasnt duplicated very well, but they're selling it.
XPTaskBar

[Hack]

As you know I work as a commerical developer. The thought occurred to me last night that when issues like this come up at my company, we simply turn it over to our legal department to sort out.

Are you talking about an application the is being developed, and will be marketed by, your company, or, is this a RobDog888 application that you would like to see if you could sell?

[RobDog888]

Actually it is supossed to be an in-house company wide app, but the owners like it so much and think it would be worth selling.
We are a small company and really dont have a legal department.

[Hack]

Actually it is supossed to be an in-house company wide app, but the owners like it so much and think it would be worth selling.
We are a small company and really dont have a legal department.

I'm sure that your company from time to time deals with attorneys for one reason or another even though the company may not retain a legal department full time. It might be worth while to have all of this legally verified before actually trying to commerically market the product.

[RobDog888]

Yes we do, but I need to do as much of the work as possible before going to legal since they cost big $$$
If I can get some solid advice on it before completing the program I wont have to recode anything hopefully.
This will save me allot of time. Then leagal will only have to come up with the EULA.