Defenders Of Democracy

[yrwyddfa]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3706050.stm

Probably not, eh.

[DeadEyes]

While I have no doubt that people being detained are being tortured, this letter seems dubious. The idea that it could get out uncensored by "accident" is a bit far fetched. Either it's a fake or someone in the US military has a conscience, um, I think fake is more likely.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I disagree with what is more likely. Lots of people are willing to kill for their country, but many of them find their enthusiasm diminishes once they actually do it. As for Gitmo, I would not expect unanimous support for that place, even among the military.

[lokespas]

four more defenders:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3715312.stm

[yrwyddfa]

The right to self-determination is a marvellous thing

[nemaroller]

Maybe not defenders of freedom... but ***** slappers of terrorism.

"Feroz Abbasi and Richard Belmar, both 23 and from London, Moazzam Begg, 36, from Birmingham and Martin Mubanga, 29, of London, are being held at the camp.

Two suspects are said to have trained with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and escaped US forces by going to Pakistan.

A third is said to have trained with al-Qaeda, met Osama bin Laden and volunteered for suicide missions.

It is said suspect four also trained at an al-Qaeda camp and scouted the derelict UK Embassy in Kabul as a possible base.

The US says he was carrying a list of Jewish groups in New York when caught. " - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3842355.stm

The point here yrwyddfa, is the your pal Blair has stated he is unsure if safety provisions exist to even allow the release of this British terrorist. Don't assume because he has British citizenship he is a fellow chap.

Until that time, and in my opinion, still solely at the discretion of the US Military, Begg may be released. I wouldn't necessarily count on it though. And when he does get released, he will be under scrutinous watch by British and American intelligence.

So you can continue crying for him now.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by nemaroller
Maybe not defenders of freedom... but ***** slappers of terrorism.

"Feroz Abbasi and Richard Belmar, both 23 and from London, Moazzam Begg, 36, from Birmingham and Martin Mubanga, 29, of London, are being held at the camp.

Two suspects are said to have trained with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and escaped US forces by going to Pakistan.

A third is said to have trained with al-Qaeda, met Osama bin Laden and volunteered for suicide missions.

It is said suspect four also trained at an al-Qaeda camp and scouted the derelict UK Embassy in Kabul as a possible base.

The US says he was carrying a list of Jewish groups in New York when caught. " - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3842355.stm

The point here yrwyddfa, is the your pal Blair has stated he is unsure if safety provisions exist to even allow the release of this British terrorist. Don't assume because he has British citizenship he is a fellow chap.

Until that time, and in my opinion, still solely at the discretion of the US Military, Begg may be released. I wouldn't necessarily count on it though. And when he does get released, he will be under scrutinous watch by British and American intelligence.

So you can continue crying for him now.

"Are said to be this, are said to be that".... what ever happened to producing evidence? I think this is a very dangerous set of precidents for the US to set. Holding people without charge indefinetly..... that's a huge step away from democracy. It doesn't bother me, as I have no intention of returning to the states anytime soon, but if I lived there, I'd be concerned about these sweeping "patriotic" measures. You seem very free to give up rights your forefathers died for.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, I don't think we picked people up at random, but we sure seemed willing to take the word of Northern Alliance forces as to who was a terrorist. This doesn't look very good.

[Ex-FB]

After paying them $25,000 per Al-Quidea opertive they handed over. Yeah, like that was a great idea (school-teachers, missionaries etc. pretty much anyone who wasn't Afghani got handed in.... sheer genius )

[nemaroller]

Here's what I have ascertained from these news clippings: The people currently being held were definitely associated or found in training with Al Queda.

Of course, just like the American turned Al Queda operative that was captured in Afghanistan, they will be released when they are deemed appropriate to be released . As far as I'm concerned, that's a good policy.

Could a few innocent person be held by mistake? It is a possibility, that happens in just about any incarceration scenario. There's a lot to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Is the US Military the only military to have abuses at detention camps. Not at all. Even the British have been charged the same.

Intelligence agents will always have to resort to some sort of torture to be effective. You couldn't possibly plead them to death.

[CORONA BEER]

Originally posted by nemaroller
Here's what I have ascertained from these news clippings: The people currently being held were definitely associated or found in training with Al Queda.

Al CIAda

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by nemaroller

Could a few innocent person be held by mistake? It is a possibility, that happens in just about any incarceration scenario. There's a lot to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The situation is better now, but for the first two years there was a mass of people held who later turned out to be innocent. This is a violation of human rights. It could be avoided if they were afforded some sort of charges or trial, but they weren't and that is fundamentaly wrong. In my honest opinion it exposed the US Constituation as a worthless peice of paper.

Originally posted by nemaroller
Is the US Military the only military to have abuses at detention camps. Not at all. Even the British have been charged the same.

Because someone else does it, does not make it right. I think Britian has used this to hugely erode civil rights as well.

Originally posted by nemaroller
Intelligence agents will always have to resort to some sort of torture to be effective. You couldn't possibly plead them to death.

Yet, we acuse Saddam of torturing people.... mmmm hypocrisy?

[crptcblade]

You can use big words to prove anything SD-FB-ExFB-etc...

The reason is clear. Saddam comes from way far away. Even farther than the land of the dragons.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by crptcblade
..... Even farther than the land of the dragons.

What! You mean Belgium

[Wally Pipp]

No no, Belgium is the land of the Wherenow's

[DeadEyes]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
No no, Belgium is the land of the Wherenow's

I thought it was the land of the Smurfs

[Wally Pipp]

fascinating, aren't they? And they're real too. At least after a couple of pints they are...

[Wally Pipp]

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1709/

this has to be a poor attempt to a pisstake.

[DeadEyes]

Communist Smurfs, some people have far too much time on their hands.
and because I have some free time...
Casper wasn't a friendly ghost he was a C.I.A spook!