Design your degree

[Mutant]

Hi there,

I wonder what courses/modules you guys with like to have in a Computer Science and/or Information Systems degrees?
I am curious as the market and technology change so fast. I don't know if schools manage to stay updated or if you guys finish collegue without having a clue about what's going on out there.

For example, I am of the opinion that more emphasis on development methodologies would help us a lot. Quality of software depends on good code but also on good specs.

So, what do you think?

[Dillinger4]

I think most schools are way behind. I wanted to earn an AS in computer science from a local community college by me. After looking at the course structure i decided to go for a AS in mathematics. Here is are some of the classes i would have had to take if i went for the CS degree. C++ I, C++ II, Computer Programming Q-Basic, Computer Organization and Assembly Language, Systems Analysis and Design.
Now what if you program in another language besides C++? Ok so you get to take another language as an elective. But then you are just going over all of the stuff you already know. What if you do not want to take any mathematics classes?

Now for the information technology degree that is offered at my college. How is four months of Java going to prepare anyone for a job?
It's not. Everything shoud be structured differently. Core Language, Graphics Programming, JDBC, Awt/Swing, NetWork Programming, JCE ect..... Don't get me wrong college is great. I mean if all you were taught was how to program and nothing else then i seriously doubt that you would be able to create any programs that could do anything of value. I just think that colleges should teach current technologies and structure them in a manner that allows the student to learn each piece fully. Not have everything mashed into one semester.

[LabtroRob]

There are two schools of thoughts on Comp Sci. degrees.

The applied approach teaches the latest technologies. This is really good in the short term, since you directly learn the technologies that employers are looking for. This is usually what you'll get at the community college level.

On the other end of the extremes are the schools that don't really teach ANY languages. These tend to concentrate on concepts, and how to solve things, not how to solve things in xy language. You'll usually pick up a bit of info on the way on a language, but its not the intent of this type of program.

Usually, the second option ends up winning in the long run. People who know things at the second level should be able to learn any language relatively fast and easily. That is what you should concentrate on rather than the syntax of a For Next loop.

[dglienna]

doesn't matter what you know, if you've never written any code, you are automatically disadvantaged. i don't think you can learn *any* language, either. maybe to fix a specific problem, but not to design and implement something.

[RobDog888]

I think its all subjective. Its a talent to be able to learn programming.
Either from the traditional schooling or at the tradeschool /
community colledge level it takes conceptual understanding of
programming logic at a logical level and not at a copy and paste
level. Anyone can "find" code that will do what they want, but to
be able to analyze requirements for a project and put into place a
viable solution is true understanding. Take the Analyzing
Requirements MCSD test and you will see what I mean (VB6 or VB
NET). So if you have the talent to be able to understand
programming logic from either types of schooling or self-taught
learning, thats the only difference that counts.

[Mutant]

Is there anything in "Analyzing Requirements MCSD" that you cannot learn at college? I mean is anything *really* new?

[RobDog888]

One of my points is that the test is un-biased on where you went
to school or didn't go to school. If you can understand
programming well enough, logical & syntax, you will do well on
the test. If you learned from copy and pasting code, you probably
will not do well at all. Thats all there is to it. Proving
understanding of both logic and syntaxual (is that a word?) will
equate to a solid education any day. Companies are looking for a
programmer with proven experience because they want to be
able to see if you understand and can put into motion good
programming skills. Then if you have a degree on top of that, you
will be in front of the other applicants.

[Dillinger4]

Posted by RobDog888

One of my points is that the test is un-biased on where you went
to school or didn't go to school. If you can understand
programming well enough, logical & syntax, you will do well on
the test.

I guarantee that after attending four years of college one would be unable to pass for example say the SCPJ2. The things that you have to learn about the language in order to pass the test are so minute that taking two or three semesters of that language proably wouldn't help that much. Also after getting bogged down with electives and other classes your chances become ever smaller that you would pass the cert exam.

Companies are looking for a
programmer with proven experience because they want to be
able to see if you understand and can put into motion good
programming skills.

In my opinion companies want too much. Do you want a degree? Do you want certification? Do you want applications to present? Do you want work history? They want everything.

[Mutant]

Originally posted by Dilenger4
I guarantee that after attending four years of college one would be unable to pass for example say the SCPJ2.

Dilenger4 you've answered in part my question. Sometimes it seems that certificates have nothing to do with degrees. I think that's because what you learn in college isn't exactly what you are asked for in the certificate exams.

I think that in collegue you learn more *concepts* and less (but some) practical things. Certificates assess your expertise in a 100% practical area (program language, etc), which is not exactly what you learned at college. However, I'm inclined to think that a degree may help indirectly. Having studied for 3 or 4 years may have trained you to think and develop your learning skills, think at a logical level and understand concepts rather than tangible things. (This could also apply to people with no degrees but with experience who have developed those skills)

In the case of certificates like Analyzing Requirements something... I might assume that there are more things from college that could help. Isn't it more conceptual than the other kinds of certificates?

[Arc]

My Networking Prof was the head of personell for some large company for several years and he told me that certs are good to have, but he would hire someone with a degree and no certs over someone with no degree and 100 certs.

His reasoning was that certs prove your skill in a single area, whereas if you have a BS then he knows that he can move you around anywhere in the company and you should be able to handle yourself fairly well.


But as far as classes go I think if you want to be a programmer you should stick to a BS/CS degree. If you want to be a programmer who will be able to move up in the company you should get a BS/CIS degree. CIS concetrates on the business and managerial end of programming as well as actually coding concepts and languages.