Anti-War camp - Happy to be wrong

[Memnoch1207]

Originally posted by jhermiz
Really what was the first language?

Many different languages were spoken in the region.

[jhermiz]

Originally posted by Memnoch1207
Many different languages were spoken in the region.

And the first one established, included writing, mathematics..and is in PRESENT iraq only to this day.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by demotivater

I think the world may indeed be black and white. Good and Evil. In my opinion, we're the Good part. Muslim leaders declared war on the US. Iraq is no innocent bystander that got in the way of our tanks. If I could do anything about this one way or the other, I'd wipe out the entire middle east. Flame away, but that's the way I feel. And everytime I hear news like I've heard today, I feel even more strongly about it.

I do hope we are as a whole, a force for good. But I suspect so do the "Muslim leaders" you mention, though I'm not sure that I can recall any countries leaders declaring war on the US, so I'm not sure who you mean.

If you are refering to Bin laden, then I'm sure most Muslims would strongly distance themselves from him in the same way that most good Christians would distance themselves from Timothy McVie, Colm Murphy (omagh bombing) or James Kopp (killing doctors who perform abortions). See, we have our fair share of terrorists who claim to use religon as their inspiration, but it doesn't mean that all Christianity is to blame.

We could argue as to the whole "declaring war" bit. I think the world has been at war with terrorism for a very long time. Your government and agencies knew it (and where fighting against it), but just because the electorate weren't paying any attention doesn't mean that it wasn't going on.

As for Iraq, what on earth did it have to do with sept. 11th?? It was one of the most secular middle eastern countries and was repeatedly denounced by Osama Bin laden as infidels..... then Bush declares war on them Er, we were all a bit stunned by that decision. Not to mention the infamous axis of evil speech... Iraq and Iran are plotting against the US.... maybe someone should have told him they are in fact mortal enemies...

So no, I don't think the world is black and white, and the middle east certainly isn't. Sure, Europe and North America have it pretty good, we've fought through many centuries of wars, hatred and mistakes to get to where we are, and if I was to judge the world, I'd say we are doing pretty well (although by no means perfect). It's a bit hypocrtical of us to then turn around to the other countries that haven't achieved internal peace in the same time-frame and start wars with them in the name of "liberation", "fighting terrorism", "wmd" or whatever else crosses our mind. Africa is probably thankful the middle east is in such turmoil as they know they'd be the next group to get "liberated"....

[jhermiz]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
I do hope we are as a whole, a force for good. But I suspect so do the "Muslim leaders" you mention, though I'm not sure that I can recall any countries leaders declaring war on the US, so I'm not sure who you mean.

If you are refering to Bin laden, then I'm sure most Muslims would strongly distance themselves from him in the same way that most good Christians would distance themselves from Timothy McVie, Colm Murphy (omagh bombing) or James Kopp (killing doctors who perform abortions). See, we have our fair share of terrorists who claim to use religon as their inspiration, but it doesn't mean that all Christianity is to blame.

We could argue as to the whole "declaring war" bit. I think the world has been at war with terrorism for a very long time. Your government and agencies knew it (and where fighting against it), but just because the electorate weren't paying any attention doesn't mean that it wasn't going on.

As for Iraq, what on earth did it have to do with sept. 11th?? It was one of the most secular middle eastern countries and was repeatedly denounced by Osama Bin laden as infidels..... then Bush declares war on them Er, we were all a bit stunned by that decision. Not to mention the infamous axis of evil speech... Iraq and Iran are plotting against the US.... maybe someone should have told him they are in fact mortal enemies...

So no, I don't think the world is black and white, and the middle east certainly isn't. Sure, Europe and North America have it pretty good, we've fought through many centuries of wars, hatred and mistakes to get to where we are, and if I was to judge the world, I'd say we are doing pretty well (although by no means perfect). It's a bit hypocrtical of us to then turn around to the other countries that haven't achieved internal peace in the same time-frame and start wars with them in the name of "liberation", "fighting terrorism", "wmd" or whatever else crosses our mind. Africa is probably thankful the middle east is in such turmoil as they know they'd be the next group to get "liberated"....

Great leader we have

Him and his father would rather jump off of planes than work on the bridging gap between different nations.

When Regan past on..we mourned his death..when Bush passes what are we gonna do? I'll be the first to say CELEBRATE TONIGHT.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by jhermiz
And the first one established, included writing, mathematics..and is in PRESENT iraq only to this day.

Great Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Europe by the picts if i remember, and is only now spoken in Ireland and Scotland. yay, we'll have all the sunny mediteranean bits, the paddy's can have the frozen north!

[jhermiz]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
Great Gaelic was spoken throughout most of Europe by the picts if i remember, and is only now spoken in Ireland and Scotland. yay, we'll have all the sunny mediteranean bits, the paddy's can have the frozen north!

No Cigar

[demotivater]

Isn't it time for you afternoon prayers hermiz?

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by jhermiz
No Cigar

What! You mean we have to share with the Micks????

[CORONA BEER]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
Stunning.

P.S. War wasn't declared on the US on 9/11 and to simplify such a complex situation down to such a simple sound bite doesn't do it any justice what so ever. Or maybe the sailors on the USS Cole don't count, or maybe US support of Isreal doesn't matter or maybe the bombings of embasseys don't matter or maybe the US support of the IRA doesn't matter. None of this comes close to justifying what happened on 9/11, but you should at least be aware that the war on terror has been going on for a very long time before you decided to ritz it up a notch with catchy sound bites.

What the hell?
US support of israel is why 9/11 happend so yea we went to war over it.
who said anything about justification?
Bush wants to quote "Set an example to other arab nations by creating a free Iraq" thats what they needed to do in the first place in 1992. so yea 9/11 has something to do with it. its not really logical to have this debate with someone who has the screen name FUTT BUCKER? now is it?

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by CORONA BEER
What the hell?
US support of israel is why 9/11 happend so yea we went to war over it.
who said anything about justification?
Bush wants to quote "Set an example to other arab nations by creating a free Iraq" thats what they needed to do in the first place in 1992. so yea 9/11 has something to do with it. its not really logical to have this debate with someone who has the screen name FUTT BUCKER? now is it?

Actually it was in response to your original post which read.

I dont care about WMD, if my government wants to kick Arab ass then go ahead,
i seen wars over dumber sh|t than that.
war was declared on america at 9/11
so we respond.. Saddam tried to take Kuwait oil supplies, so i guess we finally have his now, although i am not an oil expert.

Which as you can see stated that war was declared on America on Sept. 11th. I was pointing out that this was not the case and that it had been ongoing before this. I see that you appear to have agreed with me in you response, so that seems fair enough.

As for Bush setting an example to other Arab nations, that's an interesting phrase. It could be construed by the arab world as "change or we'll kill you.". Is it hardly suprising that their is an upsurge in terrorist recruitment in the middle east.

As for your last point about my screen name. There is nothing wrong with Futt Bucker. If you have a dirty mind and mis-read it as something else, then that is hardly my fault is it. (And don't even get me started on Corona, a drink so vile that you have to drop a lime in it to mask the taste....

[CORONA BEER]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
you have to drop a lime in it to mask the taste....

Enhance the taste

[Wally Pipp]

Tssk tssk tssk SD, you should know better than throwing common sense around. Common sense has no place in a debate with Americans.

[CORONA BEER]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
It could be construed by the arab world as "change or we'll kill you.". Is it hardly suprising that their is an upsurge in terrorist recruitment in the middle east.

cmon, they were blowing $hit up long before we said that...

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by CORONA BEER
cmon, they were blowing $hit up long before we said that...

True, but they had nowhere near the support they have now. The whole invading Iraq thing is the best recruitment tool Al-Quieda could have had.

Bush doesn't help matters either by invoking god at every other turn and stating that he has god on his side... or calling this a crusade (doh - doesn't he know the crusades where the Chirstians against the Muslims???). How can they not view this as a holy war.

Didn't he claim to be recieving messages from god at some stage, or is that a myth?

[Gaffer]

Originally posted by Memnoch1207
I guess according to you, the world was a better place when Saddam was in power, killing people and invading countries?

No, the Yanks are doing just as good a job of that themselves.

[CORONA BEER]

Originally posted by Gaffer
No, the Yanks are doing just as good a job of that themselves.

yea i hate those damn yanks

[jhermiz]

Originally posted by demotivater
Isn't it time for you afternoon prayers hermiz?

Speak english Futt Bucker

[davebat]

Originally posted by demotivater
If I could do anything about this one way or the other, I'd wipe out the entire middle east.

Why not just kill everyone, then war would end permannently

[jhermiz]

Originally posted by davebat
Why not just kill everyone, then war would end permannently

Whose the moron who said they'd wipe out the entire middle east ??? What a clueless brain terd

[davebat]

Originally posted by jhermiz
Whose the moron who said they'd wipe out the entire middle east ??? What a clueless brain terd

My sentiments exactly

[jhermiz]

Why doesn't ExFB's post count change ?

[davebat]

I think because he only posts in chit - chat and that doesnt count

[Gaffer]

Originally posted by jhermiz
Why doesn't ExFB's post count change ?

Because liberals don't need rewarding?

(*cough, sorry ranj )

[Wally Pipp]

Ranj a liberal ? I thought he was a liability ... ah, same thing really

[szlamany]

Oh, why, oh, why do I even want to post into this thread

It's not like Bush makes these decisions on a vacuum. There are dozens and dozens of administrators on boards with hundreds and thousands of worker bees paid with my tax dollars helping drive these decisions. Intelligence, Military Intelligence (oxymoron there), International Intelligence, UN (what a waste of 50 years of everyones time in this one - huh), other world leaders (followers - leaders - get of of the wayers??), gut reaction...

Glad I don't got the job.

But I kind of have the feeling that if the "coalition" (boy I hate that word) did not go into Iraq, then funny business between Pakistan, Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia (who's side are they on - how many sides do they have??) would be going on. And the big party boy would be Saddam - sitting in the middle, smoking those big stogies.

And if the "coalition" (I really do hate that word) wasn't in Iraq right now, then the terrorists would be quietly planning - bigger and bigger attacks - less frequent then we have right now. IMHO, they are reacting right now out of fear of discovery, confusion, lack of consistent direction. But they sure did influence the election in Spain - didn't they? Almost like the media...

But I could be wrong - I'm just a programmer - I do software, not hardware...

[Gaffer]

Originally posted by szlamany
Oh, why, oh, why do I even want to post into this thread

It's not like Bush makes these decisions on a vacuum. There are dozens and dozens of administrators on boards with hundreds and thousands of worker bees paid with my tax dollars helping drive these decisions. Intelligence, Military Intelligence (oxymoron there), International Intelligence, UN (what a waste of 50 years of everyones time in this one - huh), other world leaders (followers - leaders - get of of the wayers??), gut reaction...

Glad I don't got the job.

But I kind of have the feeling that if the "coalition" (boy I hate that word) did not go into Iraq, then funny business between Pakistan, Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia (who's side are they on - how many sides do they have??) would be going on. And the big party boy would be Saddam - sitting in the middle, smoking those big stogies.

And if the "coalition" (I really do hate that word) wasn't in Iraq right now, then the terrorists would be quietly planning - bigger and bigger attacks - less frequent then we have right now. IMHO, they are reacting right now out of fear of discovery, confusion, lack of consistent direction. But they sure did influence the election in Spain - didn't they? Almost like the media...

But I could be wrong - I'm just a programmer - I do software, not hardware...

Should have nailed Bin Laden in Afghanistan, instead of Saddam in Iraq then...

[jhermiz]

Originally posted by Gaffer
Should have nailed Bin Laden in Afghanistan, instead of Saddam in Iraq then...

Couldnt have said it any better...

Agreement

[szlamany]

Isn't most of the worlds secret security forces trying to nail him - haven't they been trying to do that for a decade?

It's not like he's sitting in a palace or pool side in Bagdad...

Why hasn't the other world governments pulled that off yet? Are we blaming? Blaming stinks

[Gaffer]

Originally posted by szlamany
Isn't most of the worlds secret security forces trying to nail him - haven't they been trying to do that for a decade?

It's not like he's sitting in a palace or pool side in Bagdad...

Why hasn't the other world governments pulled that off yet? Are we blaming? Blaming stinks

Well, I seem to remember the 9/11 commission learning that Bush ignored all intelligence warnings that Al-Quaeda was planning a US attack, 6 months before 9/11, and I also remeber hearing eye-witness accounts of Bush flying Bin Laden relatives out of the US after the attacks.

So it seems the US have not really been trying to nail him over the last decade. They've been using blu-tac.

Blaming does indeed stink. Thus blaming Sadam for 9/11 not only stinks, it's also inaacurate.

Glad the bastad's been captured though....

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by jhermiz

Originally posted by demotivater
Isn't it time for you afternoon prayers hermiz?

Speak english Futt Bucker

Er, that wasn't me

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by jhermiz
Why doesn't ExFB's post count change ?

Because I never post anything worthwhile?