anything related/to me - post here

[kovan]

there is 4 or so threads i have to go in and check out what people said

post in here, so i can only check one place: )

thanks

[Sophtware]

What do you mean??
What does it mean??

What does it all mean MAN!!!

Tell me what it means!!!!!!! PULEEEEAAAAAASSSE!!!

haha!!

[kovan]

you beem smoking dope again?

We refers to God and Angels
like i said you and few other blind people
if you want to argue islam
learn about it FIRST

--kovan

Why do you think I'm asking questions about the quran?

Where does it say "land masses to drift apart"?

ANGELS CREATED?
This verse is definitely making the claim that "Angels" created (since you limited "WE" to "God and Angels").

chapter 78, verse 6-7 gives us an indication of the very same phenomenon as it says, "Have we not made the earth an expanse and the mountains stakes".

Maybe it's okay for angels to "create" according to the quran, I'm just asking. (From the humble point of view that all I know is falsehood and I need the truth of the quran--and perhaps the seeing has called me blind.)

[Sophtware]

I dont smoke it... i snort it

[kovan]

VVB
according to islam
angels carry Gods command, to what EVER it is
so they create with gods permission
meaning God gave them power to do certain things
for example
the for 4 major angels are Michael, Izrafil (dont know the english), Gabriel, and Izrael (dont know the english)
Gabriel is responsible for helping with revelations to be revealed, and he was the one that went to prophets and told them they are to carry Gods orders as well
also if you read islamic history, when Muhammad preached islam he was beaten, bruetally tortured ect
and angel gabrial came to him and said "i have been given order from your lord to take 2 mountains sorrunding the city that did this to you, i wait for your command to join these mountains and punish all those that did this to you and the message of Allah," but muhammad even thou after bleeding from all his part of the body said "no i pray to my lord that the generation after them will follow the true path"

so what am trying to say is God gave the angels permission and power to do things

i am sure if you read the story of Prophet Lot (dont know exacly how bible says this) but in Qur'an

2 angels come and visit Lot and they with allahs permission destroy the people of Lot because were doing everything against Allah's command

and about the flood with Noah
an angel come to him and said noah do this do that
Allah has given the command that your people will be destroyed because they have gone so wrong that they cannot come back


and land drifting?
i dont quite follow what your asking


i will find out exactly what it means by WE
but i was always tought it refered to the angels

now the other 3 major angels
michael is responsible for rain, growth, winter,
basically all seasons..

izrael is responsible for taking care of hell and taking souls
like if you die, according to islam, izrael will send 2 angels to you first, then when your almost to die, izrael will come and take the soul

izrafil, he is responsible for the day of judgement
he will blow a horn (now we dont exactly know if its like a car horn)
but when he blows the horn ALL living things will do
and when he blows the horn ALL creatures that will be judged will raise from the dead and will be judged by allah for their actions...

[kovan]

i found what your talking about

"land masses to drift apart"

here is translation of that verse...
[Qur'an 79:30]

079.030 
YUSUFALI: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); 
PICKTHAL: And after that He spread the earth, 
SHAKIR: And the earth, He expanded it after that.

since earth is 30% land mass
and its expanded according to that verse
i would conclude that they mean same thing
but if you want a inDEPTH meaning of this verse
you have to read "tafseer" of the qur'an
which is like way in depth meaning of each verse, how they are related to others ect
and i am afraid i cannot find any site that have all the qur'an tafseer online in english

here is other verses that follow that one

079.030 
YUSUFALI: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); 
PICKTHAL: And after that He spread the earth, 
SHAKIR: And the earth, He expanded it after that. 

079.031 
YUSUFALI: He draweth out therefrom its moisture and its pasture; 
PICKTHAL: And produced therefrom the water thereof and the pasture thereof, 
SHAKIR: He brought forth from it its water and its pasturage. 

079.032 
YUSUFALI: And the mountains hath He firmly fixed;- 
PICKTHAL: And He made fast the hills, 
SHAKIR: And the mountains, He made them firm,

[Edited by kovan on 11-26-2000 at 11:35 AM]

[kovan]

i stand corrected, and i learned something very good as well
thanks for pushing me to find out what it meant by WE cus

this is a arabic language thing i guess
the two words in arabic used in the Qu'ran are
"Nahnu" and "Inna"
the best transtlation they came up for in english is WE
it its a higher version of saying I
so when in the qur'an you come across WE
its Allah saying "I" but the word I is not stressing it enough so He takes it to another level
and if you read Qur'an Allah refers to himself 99 other ways (if you like ot know more about this, look up 99 names of Allah)

and here is the converstaion i had with someone about this

<Kovan> question for you then :)
<OtherGuy> what??
<Kovan> in qur'an 
<OtherGuy> ?
<Kovan> a lot of verses refer as "WE have done this, that"
<Kovan> i assume WE refers to Allah and angels?
<Kovan> and "OtherGuy" ha :)
<OtherGuy> no
<OtherGuy> it refer to Allah only
<OtherGuy> it is a language thing
<OtherGuy> in arabic
<Kovan> but it says we..
<Kovan> whats the arabic term
<OtherGuy> the top ppl says we
<OtherGuy> as we the great pure inform u the following
<Kovan> do you know why they say we?
<OtherGuy> it is in language
<OtherGuy> i know that
<OtherGuy> i am arabic
<OtherGuy> and know that
<Kovan> can you explain a little more?
<OtherGuy> what to explain
<OtherGuy> it is obvious
<Kovan> whats the arabic term first
<OtherGuy> if iam a kind i do not say i am
<OtherGuy> i say we
<OtherGuy> we the king.....
<OtherGuy> when they make speach
<OtherGuy> they do that
<OtherGuy> it is arabic language
<Kovan> oh
<OtherGuy> for enlarging of the person level
<Kovan> but whats the arabic term
<OtherGuy> since Allah creat this language this matter was there
<OtherGuy> where r u from ?/
<Kovan> canada
<Kovan> yes but what is the arabic term qur'an uses
<Kovan> i forgot
<OtherGuy> wellcome
<OtherGuy> i didn't understand u q ??
<Kovan> what is the arabic term they translate to WE
<OtherGuy> it is the oreginal arabic , translater translate it as is without telling what it means. u should read tafseer
<Kovan> bro i know
<OtherGuy> i am an arabic man so i can understand it
<Kovan> but what is the WORD in the qur'an
<OtherGuy> and i am giving u the right answer inshAllah
<Kovan> like the word "Allah" is translated to God
<OtherGuy> arabic
<Kovan> whats the word translated to WE
<Kovan> yes arabic
<OtherGuy> ok
<OtherGuy> nahnu
<Kovan> there we go
<OtherGuy> nahnu=we
<Kovan> thank you :)
<Kovan> so let me sum this up
<OtherGuy> or inna = we
<OtherGuy> ok
<OtherGuy> not only this
<OtherGuy> as arabic is much diferent than english
<Kovan> nahnu in ESSENSE means I (higher than just saying i) so the word WE is used to refer to a higher level of "I"
<OtherGuy> they can't translate quran 100%
<Kovan> i know
<Kovan> i just wanna make sure, 
<OtherGuy> yes it is Allah not a human
<Kovan> ok thank you
<OtherGuy> did u understand me 
<OtherGuy> i mean 
<Kovan>  say it again
<OtherGuy> did u understan what i am telling u
<Kovan> i wanna make sure i undrestand
<OtherGuy> well
<OtherGuy> the arabic languge is much diferent than english
<Kovan> agree
<Kovan> specially the classica arabic in the qur'an
<OtherGuy> so when u compare some words u do not find relatives to it is english 100%
<OtherGuy> yes
<OtherGuy> they try their best to simlimise it to english readers
<Kovan> i know all this bro, just restate how nahnu and inna is used..
<OtherGuy> for a long time ago shaikhs was priventing the translations as quran can't be translated what soever
<OtherGuy> ok
<Kovan> just like the word Taqwa, cannot be translated with one word
<Kovan> but i wanna get to the root of this word inna, nahnu inshallah
<OtherGuy> it shows that the person who is talking is a very important 
<OtherGuy> so u immedietly pay attention

glossory : skaikhs = scholars
inshallah = God willing
Taqwa = righteous, pious, among the best.. (too many list)

that i hope will give you a better undrestanding...

and about angels
they still carry allahs command, samething as i stated above

In the beginning, God created...

The third word in the Hebrew text is Elohim (God in English); this masculine Hebrew noun is plural in form but it has both singular and plural uses. In a plural sense, it refers to rulers or judges with divine connections.

The word Bara (create in English) refers only to an activity which can be performed by God "bringing into existence".

So I was curious as to the Quran's rendering of One (but plural?) God and the issue of Who is said to "create".

The exact nature of the plurality is not clear to scholars. Personally, I believe it is the finite trying to grasp the infinite; How can One (God) be plural or a Trinity? But still, it is written as that in the Hebrew text. An apparent contradiction in the first verse of the Bible.

There are other verses which speak of "We/Us" in the Bible. Genesis 11:6-7 And the Lord said...let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

There is your author of confusion. Which is another reason I say God is responsible for it ALL. The creation of the devil, good and evil. It's his (for the lack of a reference--"his" is masculine--Does God have gender?) game. IT IS ALL HIS GAME. ALL IS HIS. We might as well submit to "him" because No one can resist God.

Romans 9:19-20 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Life seems to be an exercise in learning who we are. And our relationship to God. And finding Peace in Submission to God.

Does that last sentence translate to "And finding Islam in Islam"?

[kovan]

there is a big difference between GOD, son of god,
ect
which i should not get into
and if you like to keep this discussion o islam
good if you wanna move it to on the bible
start a new thread

God encourages "people of undrestanding" to probe and analyse his creation, how ever he discourages us from trying to imagine god, and where he came from and why he came from there, if he did at all
because as our prophet puts it "human imagination is not capable of imagining somethng that it has no information on"
same thing for heaven
in islam when heaven is described
its described throu metaphors and similies because we never seen heaven and it would be impossible to grasp the unknown
and we human dont usually believe unless we SEE proof

so in short god created EVERYTHING
and again i think you for making me search for that WE phrase
now i have a better undrestanding
i thought it might refer to angels because angels were created to carry allah's orders without questions since they have no free will.

and as far as so called translations of qur'an they contain errors and they cannot explain the exact meaning of the words
thats one reason why qur'an MUST stay in its original format

if it was allowed to change
over time
that word nahnu and inna
would eventually become WE
and it would sound like islam is a polythiest religion instead of monothiesm

as i have said before qur'an cannot change to any other language EVEN if all the words were properly translated
this would come to a dead end at some words
because there are words in Qur'an
that arabs cant even explain
and those were are again "Alif Lam Mim"
every english or other language translation you read of these words
it would STILL say alif lam mim
because thats what it is
its not explainable


but if your trying to link this to the bible or bring out the bible discussion

everyone admits bible contains errors
minor, major, thats not the issue
it contains errors
and that is EXACTLY why we dont believe in todays bible
because its meaning has been changed
and it has gone out of context
so for that SAME reason
qur'an cannot change, so it stays the way it came

[kovan]

a good book about other beings would be
"The exorcist tradition in islam"
most fantastic book on explain what qur'an says regarding angels, jinn, human
and even the devil
another book is called "the world of devils and jinn"
if you read these 2 books you will get a very good grasp of what qur'an says about devil..

kovan wears girlie underpants.

[kovan]

i might wear em
but i dont do fashion in them like you do

going commando is much better

I saw the photo in "Canadian Islamic Quarterly"....kovan wearing black lacy knickers and a suspender belt.

[kovan]

i am just happy today
i got my server working
starting to fast this month
and everything so far is being going great
hope it all goes well so far

[HarryW]

Hmm , that was a suspiciously swift change of subject.

[kovan]

HarryW so what? its true what jethro said about me wearing girl clothes
HEHEH jk

Damn..............if you got them from Dennis beware the skid marks.

[kovan]

i am bored..

So write some code....

How about writing me a little program to compare two access databases and tell the differences in structure?

I'd write it, but I couldn't be bithered at 11:30 at night. Maybe tomorrow...

- gaffa

[kovan]

just getting ready to actuallay come to life for the day
i got a big day ahead of me
got to train people on the program i been working on for ages
if i feel THAT bored i will write y asomething like that

how is life?

Busy - about to finish another 16 hour day.

I'm still here cos I've got a bunch of losers for clients. They get us to write some call centre software for 95/NT, then go and change their SOE to 2000, wonder why it doesn't run on 2000, then ring up screaming bloody murder cos they thin our software is crap. Dickheads. I could happily throttle the lot of them.

- gaffa

[kovan]

thats not worse

when you have the software developed
and you training them on
and the go "ohh that doesnt follow our process.. where did you get your info?"
am like "from the boss"
their like "boss doesnt know what the **** he is talking about"

i already changed most of the program to fit their needs
today i am doing another training session
and most likely will come across more of that ****

The Boss generally has no idea how things get done in his/her company. We normally form user ownership committees while developing to make sure we are getting the right answers before committing too much design and development time.

[kovan]

the first day i started, i made a user form (with the help of our HOT secretary... )
no one filled it out
i made numbers of different appointments with users,
they kelped canceling on me
now that its done
they want **** changed
grrr