No One Speaking About Iraqi Prisoner Abuse??

[Maven]

Originally posted by NotLKH
If that is the kind of officer that you would be, then you would have become a rotting corpse long before Saddam was captured.

War is Ugly, and to paraphrase the Great Man himself, "Civilians can't handle the truth!"
Pencil Pushers and Beurocratic Officers Make the Military look great on paper, but if they don't have the guts to get the job done whatever means necessarry, they become expendable real fast. And if you are in an MI assignment, but you get weak kneed at relativily benign methods of interigation, then you're the wrong man for the job.

The Soldiers that should be punished are those that put their prisoners in life threatoning situations, those that allowed or actually killed prisoners who presented no actual threat, and those that truly tortured their charges. The Soldiers that did these "Abuses" sounds like they were told to soften them up, but were given only general guidelines in terms of how to do it. These soldiers should not be convicted.


-Lou

Sometimes all a soldier needs is a kick in the ass to get back in line, call me old fashion but it has always worked. That is exactly what those soldiers needed, they have been honey pooed too much. They were given a post and didn't have the disipline to do the job. The result of them not doing their job is putting american lives in danger.

[Maven]

Originally posted by NotLKH
How would you "Prepare"?

However, whether prepared or not, it was certainly expected, at least by everybody here {At VBForums} , everybody I talk to, and I would expect the majority of Conservatives, Older Generations, Active Military "Lifers" and rational Intelligent People. Of course, the Media is portraying like its a total surprise, and it seems that only the BHL's talk like this was truly unexpected.

Well that is thier business to spice up news.

[NotLKH]

Originally posted by Maven
Sometimes all a soldier needs is a kick in the ass to get back in line, call me old fashion but it has always worked. That is exactly what those soldiers needed, they have been honey pooed too much. They were given a post and didn't have the disipline to do the job. The result of them not doing their job is putting american lives in danger.

Some would argue that they did do their jobs.

Furthur, Even if they hadn't subjected their prisoners to naked twister, Everyone would still be in as much danger as they are right now.

[OrdinaryGuy]

every intelligence agency in the world probably uses similar means to extract intelligence, probably even more brutal

do you really think intelligence agencies sweet-talk prisoners to gain intelligence?

I do not believe they should be made the scape-goats.

[Pino]

Originally posted by nemaroller
[B]My view... Bush is an idiot, I didn't vote for him.

However, I wonder what these 'prisoners' did to get themselves landed in these detention centers. Did they blow up Iraqi's buildings? Attack Iraqi Police? Attack American convoys? Did they carbomb and kill 15 Iraqi civilians in the process of trying to disable a humvee? Does anyone care what happened to the 15 Iraqi civilians?

Personally, those soldiers could have released movies of the prisoners taking it from the behind by a horse, and I would not have felt any remorse for them whatsoever.

There are two distinct types of people in the world, those who look for war/conflict and those whose don't. To anyone who looks for war, you expose yourself to these possibilities.

I'd say those prisoners got off really easy, if the worst they had to face was being dressed up and posed in sexual positions.

I dont toatally agree with your point basicly because, what we have done now (abusing prisoners) right or wrong has had repercusions, but because these people are so patheticly involved in religion they decided to behead an american live recorded on the internet... what i am understanding is that iraqs people (some of the militants etc) think because we did it they can? thats crap, i was totally against this whole abuse thing but the beheading thing has swayed me, these people have such a narrow mind they think about erm.. religion... religion... o and killing people! because lets face it EVERYTHING in the east comes down to religion.... i once listened to someone and they said something that will stay in my mind for a logn time to do with the whole islam and the way the easten people are

'islam is perfect but the people who practice it arnt'

arrr it really p's me off to see these 'people' do this, you were talking about honour in war before, where is the honour in blowing up inocent people? where is the honour in driving a car packed with explosives into a building? where is the homour in walking onto a bus and blowing your self up?!

.....

[nemaroller]

Originally posted by Pino
I dont toatally agree with your point basicly because, what we have done now (abusing prisoners) right or wrong has had repercusions, but because these people are so patheticly involved in religion they decided to behead an american live recorded on the internet... what i am understanding is that iraqs people (some of the militants etc) think because we did it they can? thats crap, i was totally against this whole abuse thing but the beheading thing has swayed me, these people have such a narrow mind they think about erm.. religion... religion... o and killing people! because lets face it EVERYTHING in the east comes down to religion.... i once listened to someone and they said something that will stay in my mind for a logn time to do with the whole islam and the way the easten people are

'islam is perfect but the people who practice it arnt'

arrr it really p's me off to see these 'people' do this, you were talking about honour in war before, where is the honour in blowing up inocent people? where is the honour in driving a car packed with explosives into a building? where is the homour in walking onto a bus and blowing your self up?!

.....

Well, like everyone else mentioned, intelligence agencies resort to these tactics. Some one has to extract the information.

Now when a CIA spook or whomever enters your prison with authority from high command, whom do you report to?

Now PFC England states she was asked to pose for the photos by 'spooks'.

In the worst case scenario, she has become a scapegoat for authoritive persons 'way up high'.

The beheading was done by terrorists, not Iraqi officers, and it appears it was for failure of the US to meet their previously issued demands to release a select few prisoners that the troops gathered, whom obviously were very important to these monguls.

[Cander]

Certianly sheds some light on how much power the CIA has.

US actions seem controlled by the CIA, not the President.

[demotivater]

Originally posted by Cander
Certianly sheds some light on how much power the CIA has.

US actions seem controlled by the CIA, not the President.

Probably some truth to that. I would suspect it's been that way for a long, long time.

As for the excuses given to cut the guys head off, let's not forget they did the same thing to Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Perl a year or more ago. What was the excuse then, impending US abuse?

[KayJay]

What is really worrying/funny, depending on which side you are on, is that those pictures managed to get out the way they got out.

Sure, **** happens. But, most armies have a tight blanket around their activities.

I really cannot make my mind up on whether to be respectful (and perhaps envious) of this we-do-not-believe-in-cover-ups-democracy in the American Armed Forces or laugh my ass out over the level of control they have of the information on their internal excesses.

[demotivater]

Originally posted by KayJay
What is really worrying/funny, depending on which side you are on, is that those pictures managed to get out the way they got out.

Sure, **** happens. But, most armies have a tight blanket around their activities.

I really cannot make my mind up on whether to be respectful (and perhaps envious) of this we-do-not-believe-in-cover-ups-democracy in the American Armed Forces or laugh my ass out over the level of control they have of the information on their internal excesses.

That's part of a free society. It's called the Freedom of Information Act. Fill out a form and send it in, you can get access to anything you want - at least that's what's supposed to happen.

[Maven]

Originally posted by NotLKH
Some would argue that they did do their jobs.

Furthur, Even if they hadn't subjected their prisoners to naked twister, Everyone would still be in as much danger as they are right now.

No they didn't do their jobs. I highly doubt there was an order given to them to do all the **** they have done. Even if there was an order to do it, it would have been an illegal one and they should not have followed it.

.......... oh so your saying al-quada for example isn't doing any better since this happened? You don't have to be one with the force to detect the problems of this matter. Their recuring people right, left, and sideways because of this. How about the people in Iraq? Are they seriously going to believe that we are there to help them in any shape form or fashion when they get handed pictures of us raping, killing, and yes playing the naked twister with thier people that we have locked up? This is a political melt down in a nutshell.

[Maven]

Originally posted by OrdinaryGuy
every intelligence agency in the world probably uses similar means to extract intelligence, probably even more brutal

do you really think intelligence agencies sweet-talk prisoners to gain intelligence?

I do not believe they should be made the scape-goats.

CIA officals use the threat of force to get their information from prisoners.

[nemaroller]

Originally posted by Maven
CIA officals use the threat of force to get their information from prisoners.

I believe the CIA uses more than threats. Back in the cold war, KGB and CIA agents would routinely be 'missing'.

[Shaggy Hiker]

By our actions, we have helped the terrorists the only way we were capable of: we helped them recruit. Suicide bombers tend to deplete their own ranks. We help fill them.

Somebody back there suggested that the terrorists were all going to Iraq. There is little evidence of this, but there have been two serious attacks (Madrid and the Philippines) since the war began. If the terrorists truly are focused on Iraq, they at least have shown the ability to fight on two fronts at once.

The whole premise of the war, if you believe it, was that it would make us safer. Are we safer? No. Do we have any realistic expectation of becoming safer as a result of what is happening over there? No.

Therefore, the war is a mistake.