It seems that the Beta of Longhorn has the beta of the next framework. You can compile and run stuff if you use notepad to write the source. There is an MSDN TV video: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdntv/epi...B/manifest.xml that if you follow along you can run all the code from. In fact I'm posting this from within Longhorn.
Thanks for the link. By the way have you noticed the problem in front page of your site? The div that holdes Edneeis and headlines div go way out of screen and need horizontal scroll. And i think that's because you have set the left side div width to fixed 200 pixel and the other ones to 95%. So the logo div will only fit to a 4000 pixel wide screen.
Last edited by Lunatic3; Nov 23rd, 2003 at 09:23 PM.
'Heading for the automatic overload'
Marillion, Brave, The Great Escape, 1994
'How will WE stand the FIRE TOMORROW?'
Eloy, Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes, The Vision - Burning, 1979
hehe yeah I noticed that too while I was searching google for something.. I came up upon the unfinished documentation of the new framework
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waah I didnt know all about those new stuff they;re adding. It seems a bit hard to keep up with the framework releases every year though
btw does cander have any relations with that Chris Anderson in the video?
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Originally posted by Lunatic3 Thanks for the link. By the way have you noticed the problem in front page of your site? The dive that holdes Edneeis and headlines div go way out of screen and need horizontal scroll. And i think that's because you have set the left side div width to fixed 200 pixel and the other ones to 95%. So the logo div will only fit to a 4000 pixel wide screen.
Yes I noticed this but don't know how to fix it. The menu is a set 200px and is in a webcontrol (ascx) so I want the normal page to fill the rest. Any ideas?
Originally posted by kasracer That ain't no beta, that's ALPHA!
Oh man does that build suck right now. I'll wait until Longhorn reaches beta before I play around with it and the framework.
Is there anything good in the next framework? I know people have been waiting for better printing abilities and multimedia type functions.
For a very early build I thought it wasn't all that bad. There is a ton of good things in the next framework, generics alone make me look forward to it. Right now I'm just playing with XAML and seeing what it can do.
Originally posted by Edneeis Yes I noticed this but don't know how to fix it. The menu is a set 200px and is in a webcontrol (ascx) so I want the normal page to fill the rest. Any ideas?
You can fix it by wrapping the whole page in a table.
'Heading for the automatic overload'
Marillion, Brave, The Great Escape, 1994
'How will WE stand the FIRE TOMORROW?'
Eloy, Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes, The Vision - Burning, 1979
Thanks Lunatic3 I forget I also had a header control that was using a DIV too so I had to nest another table in for the right column but I got it working.
Originally posted by Edneeis For a very early build I thought it wasn't all that bad. There is a ton of good things in the next framework, generics alone make me look forward to it. Right now I'm just playing with XAML and seeing what it can do.
hey but those yummy ROTATE features and all those nice looking controls (eeh what was it, avalanch?)... they're not gonno be till the release of longhorn, right?
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Originally posted by Lunatic3 MSAvalon is the namespace that I think will be replaced by System in the final version.
uuh I didnt watch the whole thing and I'm not updated as you guys, as I'm not a developer and I dont even work... but is avalon supposed to replace windows forms?
oh and what was the deal with XAML? what's the use of it ? that guy seemed to be using that instead of writing code with C#
+ Edneeis, what do you use to compile? I have longhorn too hehe
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Originally posted by kasracer Avalon is a type of shell
XAML is a way of using XML to dynamically create windows forms
All of the cool features won't be in place until the beta, the alpha barely has half a buttplug currently
umm yeah but was that the alpha of the next framework which will be shipped with whidbey? or it's the framework that will be shipped with longhorn? (will vs2004 even be released with the release of a new framework ? )
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man, if it's this way then, it seems like the next framework will have a lot of new stuff. Avalon and generics and what else? indigo?
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Originally posted by MrPolite man, if it's this way then, it seems like the next framework will have a lot of new stuff. Avalon and generics and what else? indigo?
No 1.2 may or may not have that.
Since Longhorn won't be out until 2005-2006 and 1.2 comes out in 2004, I was believe Microsoft is shipping Longhorn with 1.3 or possibly a 1.4?
It's hard to keep up with the yearly release of new version of the .NET Framework.
Just look a VS.NET...
2002 uses v1.0 only
2003 uses v1.1 only
2004 will problably use v1.2 only
and so on...
I don't want to have to buy a new version or upgrade of VS.NET every year. They should make VS.NET use the latest version that you have installed, or make it so you can decide which installed version will compile your apps.
I guess I'll just have check out Sharp Develop and other open source .NET development IDE's. Does anyone know of a good .NET development IDE for Linux?
Originally posted by crpietschmann It's hard to keep up with the yearly release of new version of the .NET Framework.
Just look a VS.NET...
2002 uses v1.0 only
2003 uses v1.1 only
2004 will problably use v1.2 only
and so on...
I don't want to have to buy a new version or upgrade of VS.NET every year. They should make VS.NET use the latest version that you have installed, or make it so you can decide which installed version will compile your apps.
I guess I'll just have check out Sharp Develop and other open source .NET development IDE's. Does anyone know of a good .NET development IDE for Linux?
umm well if you are a serious developer then $30 upgrade fee isnt so much, granted that you get to use the latest framework with the best IDE (I know it gets on your nerves to pay that upgrade fee each year )
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Originally posted by kasracer Dude, you can't be serious......
The mono .NET compiler is sooo far behind, and you want a friggin IDE for Linux?
The mono compiler for .NET is supposed to be at version 1.0 in around 2004, Microsoft will be at 1.2 and there won't be any IDEs for it.
This is the price you pay for using propritary programming methods. Either remaind a Microsoft ***** or switch to something else.
is anyone going to use mono for serious programs? it's gonno be outdated and buggy
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Originally posted by MrPolite umm well if you are a serious developer then $30 upgrade fee isnt so much, granted that you get to use the latest framework with the best IDE (I know it gets on your nerves to pay that upgrade fee each year )
Don't forget about making everyone who uses your programs upgrading to the next version of the .NET framework, which will be another 25MB+ download for them.
Each year the users will have to download an update if you update. If you are using 1.2 to develop and your users are using 1.0 or 1.1 still and your application still works on their systems, then you wasted some money since you arn't using any new features.
I don't like the whole update each year thing, Microsoft could have handled it sooo much better.
Originally posted by MrPolite is anyone going to use mono for serious programs? it's gonno be outdated and buggy
If they are a linux developer or Windows developer and they want to use the pripritary framework, why not?
It won't be anymore buggy than the Microsoft framework is, but since it's free, they have very very limited resources and won't ever be up to where Microsoft is.
Originally posted by kasracer Don't forget about making everyone who uses your programs upgrading to the next version of the .NET framework, which will be another 25MB+ download for them.
Each year the users will have to download an update if you update. If you are using 1.2 to develop and your users are using 1.0 or 1.1 still and your application still works on their systems, then you wasted some money since you arn't using any new features.
I don't like the whole update each year thing, Microsoft could have handled it sooo much better.
umm well, I guess that's what fast internet connections are good for
but who uses .NET? I dont think there will ever be famous products written in .NET (like photoshop, and such)
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Originally posted by MrPolite umm well, I guess that's what fast internet connections are good for
but who uses .NET? I dont think there will ever be famous products written in .NET (like photoshop, and such)
Yeah no highly commercial software will be in .NET..... well except WINDOWS!
All software and game companies want/need the highest amount of performance possible, they won't go to .NET because of that. However, Microsoft is writting Longhorn entirely out of managed code.
Originally posted by MrPolite but who uses .NET? I dont think there will ever be famous products written in .NET (like photoshop, and such)
That's not so easy to decide about. It's not only a matter of software and performance. It deals with lots of political and economical matters that we are not aware of. So I won't be shocked if someday Adobe turns to .NET, if not already on their way.
'Heading for the automatic overload'
Marillion, Brave, The Great Escape, 1994
'How will WE stand the FIRE TOMORROW?'
Eloy, Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes, The Vision - Burning, 1979
Originally posted by Lunatic3 That's not so easy to decide about. It's not only a matter of software and performance. It deals with lots of political and economical matters that we are not aware of. So I won't be shocked if someday Adobe turns to .NET, if not already on their way.
No Adobe will NEVER turn to .NET unless Microsoft makes it platform-independant.
Don't forget Adobe makes ALOT of money selling software on Apple computers, as well as Windows.
They currently use C++ and qt, which is cross-platform capable so it is insanely simple to port their software from Windows to Mac and vice versa, they just re-compile and done. Of course there are a few optimizations here and there, but that is basically what they have to do.
I highly doubt they would change to something that could cause their programs, which absolutely thrive on highly optimized code, to run less efficient as compiled down native code. Besides, they have ALOT of code and libraries in-house, they really have no use for the framework.
Originally posted by kasracer No Adobe will NEVER turn to .NET unless Microsoft makes it platform-independant.
I never use that 'NEVER' to talk about something that is out of my knowledge scope. Again I have to emphasize on the fact that we don't know what goes on the minds of people ruling and managing those big corporations and it's not a simple matter of software development. I am not going to argue about it anymore.
'Heading for the automatic overload'
Marillion, Brave, The Great Escape, 1994
'How will WE stand the FIRE TOMORROW?'
Eloy, Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes, The Vision - Burning, 1979
Originally posted by MrPolite uuh I didnt watch the whole thing and I'm not updated as you guys, as I'm not a developer and I dont even work... but is avalon supposed to replace windows forms?
oh and what was the deal with XAML? what's the use of it ? that guy seemed to be using that instead of writing code with C#
+ Edneeis, what do you use to compile? I have longhorn too hehe
You use csc.exe the commandline compiler or msbuild (which is easier). Just follow along with what they do in the video you can run everything they do. They are using the same build of Longhorn as you notice in the command line it says 4051. The only thing I had to do was add the path to the framework to the default windows path. Just run this at a command prompt: path $PATH$;C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.2.4030
Also when you make the cs, proj, and xaml files just go to the directory in the comand prompt and just run msbuild. That will compile the project and stick it in the \bin\release folder.
Yes rotate and all of the features they show work in that version, build 4051.
Originally posted by kasracer Yeah no highly commercial software will be in .NET..... well except WINDOWS!
All software and game companies want/need the highest amount of performance possible, they won't go to .NET because of that. However, Microsoft is writting Longhorn entirely out of managed code.
Go figure
I disagree, I think a lot/most of business applications will move to managed code. Of course somethings aren't that well suited for managed code like games, but that may change later on near the time Longhorn comes out. Even avalon can directly access DirectX so I'm sure there will be massive amounts of streamlining. I know that you are always talking **** on .NET and thats fine we all have to have our opinions but I think you are just going against the grain on this one.
As for the framework changing every year, whats the big deal. The first app you install that uses the new framework will install it for you and then you are set for the year. Thats not so hard, especially as more and more software is written in managed code. MS is really commiting to managed code and I'm sure future versions of Office will run on it which means most people will have it from their Office install.
Originally posted by kasracer Yeah no highly commercial software will be in .NET..... well except WINDOWS!
All software and game companies want/need the highest amount of performance possible, they won't go to .NET because of that. However, Microsoft is writting Longhorn entirely out of managed code.
Go figure
waah windows?what part of longhorn is written in .net ?
edneeis I asked this in the same thread, but oh well even though I got the answer, let me ask again
will all those things that they showed in the video (avalon in particular ) be in the next version of vs.net?
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Originally posted by Edneeis I know that you are always talking **** on .NET and thats fine we all have to have our opinions but I think you are just going against the grain on this one.
I always talk **** because the framework could of been sooo much better, but it looks like Microsoft wants to dominate the market in programming as well.
Originally posted by Edneeis As for the framework changing every year, whats the big deal. The first app you install that uses the new framework will install it for you and then you are set for the year. Thats not so hard, especially as more and more software is written in managed code.
Requring the user to download another update that will be around 25MB. Yeah the 56k users will just LOVE doing that every year.
Honestly, to install something, are you going to sit on 56k and download a framework, and THEN the program, or are you going to find another program that does the samething without the framework? That's just a no-brainer. The .NET framework may work well in companies, but it'll never fly with consumers especially if it changes every year.
Originally posted by Edneeis MS is really commiting to managed code and I'm sure future versions of Office will run on it which means most people will have it from their Office install.
They already announced future versions of their software and OSes will include the framework, but you will STILL need to update the framework online, unless you play to buy Office each year
Originally posted by kasracer I always talk **** because the framework could of been sooo much better, but it looks like Microsoft wants to dominate the market in programming as well.
Requring the user to download another update that will be around 25MB. Yeah the 56k users will just LOVE doing that every year.
Honestly, to install something, are you going to sit on 56k and download a framework, and THEN the program, or are you going to find another program that does the samething without the framework? That's just a no-brainer. The .NET framework may work well in companies, but it'll never fly with consumers especially if it changes every year.
They already announced future versions of their software and OSes will include the framework, but you will STILL need to update the framework online, unless you play to buy Office each year
WELL! you only have to update if your program is on the net.... if you sell your app on a CD then you can just have the framework on the CD... plus, umm who cares about the 56k modem owners
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Originally posted by kasracer Apparently, they are trying to write EVERYTHING in .NET for longhorn.
Explorer is almost finished in the ALPHA and that is in .NET. I'll find the article if you want
sure i'd be interested to read it. But the core of the operating system itslef isnt written with .net ha?! (the kernel? ) you mean they're just writing the programs like explorer with .net? what the heck is the point of that? seems like a performance loss
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excuse my laziness but I dont want to boot into longhorn wiht my slow computer. one more question that Edneeis probably knows...
they said they have a built-in compiler in longhorn. did they mean the compiler that comes with the framework itself? or were they talking about that msbulid.exe thingie?
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Shows how the OS will be laid out. Looks like the Framework will run everything but OS specific functions (thank god, though I doubt it would be possible to replace those anyway)
Originally posted by MrPolite excuse my laziness but I dont want to boot into longhorn wiht my slow computer. one more question that Edneeis probably knows...
they said they have a built-in compiler in longhorn. did they mean the compiler that comes with the framework itself? or were they talking about that msbulid.exe thingie?
I think they mean msbuild but I'm not sure. Both are in Longhorn.
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They should make VS.NET use the latest version that you have installed, or make it so you can decide which installed version will compile your apps.
