Releasing my program

[VBGangsta]

I have finally finshed my program but i dont know what to do. Is all the files that i need in the bin folder? And i have just downloaded dotfuscator, does anyone know ho to use this?

[Danny J]

Nobody has the time to teach ofuscation tech...

[Kasracer]

*sigh*

Build it in release mode, it gets "compiled" and put into the release folder and the bin folder holds all the dependancies.

Copy and paste everything in bin folder and give away.

http://www.samspublishing.com/

If you just created the program, you should know what files you'd need.....

[VBGangsta]

Evryone i send it to gets an error that says fails to inialize. Whats wrong

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by VBGangsta
Evryone i send it to gets an error that says fails to inialize. Whats wrong

Need .NET framework

[VBGangsta]

Yeah but how am i supposed to give it away to people with out the framework?

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by VBGangsta
Yeah but how am i supposed to give it away to people with out the framework?

You don't.

You either download the .NET framework and send it with your applications (an addition 20MB I might add) and tell the people to install that first, or tell them to download the .NET framework off of windows update.

If they don't have the .NET framewokr, they can't run programs with any .NET code.

[Danny J]

Originally posted by kasracer
You don't.

You either download the .NET framework and send it with your applications (an addition 20MB I might add) and tell the people to install that first, or tell them to download the .NET framework off of windows update.

If they don't have the .NET framewokr, they can't run programs with any .NET code.

Half of what you said is incorrect, and you're making it sound impossible to deploy an appy. Microsoft was smarter than that. Add a Windows Installer project and customize the way you want your installation. The installer automatically detects what aspects of the .NET framework you are using, puts into a compact form whereas if you used the drawing namespace, it will include only the drawing namespace, and other materials to get your appy running. You don't HAVE to include the complete framework, that's why they call it the Compact Framework. Don't reply if you don't have the right answers.

Good luck!

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by Danny J
Half of what you said is incorrect, and you're making it sound impossible to deploy an appy. Microsoft was smarter than that. Add a Windows Installer project and customize the way you want your installation. The installer automatically detects what aspects of the .NET framework you are using, puts into a compact form whereas if you used the drawing namespace, it will include only the drawing namespace, and other materials to get your appy running. You don't HAVE to include the complete framework, that's why they call it the Compact Framework. Don't reply if you don't have the right answers.

I have used that, and it doesn't work as well as you say.

My text editor with the installer was about 15MB, and the exe I made was only like 70KB.

Salamander's mini-deploy does a much much better job. Unfortunatly it isn't released yet, but I am beta testing it

They also plan to go for a native compile as well.

[hellswraith]

Originally posted by Danny J
Half of what you said is incorrect, and you're making it sound impossible to deploy an appy. Microsoft was smarter than that. Add a Windows Installer project and customize the way you want your installation. The installer automatically detects what aspects of the .NET framework you are using, puts into a compact form whereas if you used the drawing namespace, it will include only the drawing namespace, and other materials to get your appy running. You don't HAVE to include the complete framework, that's why they call it the Compact Framework. Don't reply if you don't have the right answers.

Good luck!

You should go by your own words. You are obviously the one who is mistaken and should really learn about what you are teaching. You are sending the poster on a wild goose chase that isn't going to happen. The .Net framework MUST be installed on the client pc in order for a vb.net application to run on it.

The compact framework is for Windows CE devices, and doesn't include everything a Windows forms application needs.

Here is some links:

http://www.devhood.com/messages/mess...hread_id=53090

Or from a Microsoft chat:

Host: SteveHoag (Microsoft)
Q: Do I have to distribute the .NET framework as part of my installation package?
A: Not necessarily. If you know that the .NET Framework is already installed on all of your target machines, you don't have to distribute it. There is a bootstrapper sample available on MSDN that makes distributing the framework easier - see Using Visual Studio .NET to Redistribute the .NET Framework. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...asp?frame=true
Stay tuned for an update to this article in the near future that will provide an even easier way to distribute the framework

or from the same page:

Host: Sean (Microsoft)
Q: I have developed a window based application on .net that I have to deploy on windows 98. Apart from .net framework do I have to take care of anything else to run my app run smoothly?
A: If your application uses ADO.NET to connect to a database, you'll also have to deploy MDAC 2.6 or higher, but otherwise, the .NET Framework is the only component you will need to predeploy.

Link to the page: http://msdn.microsoft.com/chats/vstu...dio_082603.asp

And just one more link to disprove your post:
http://www.dotnetforums.net/t74201.html


If you still believe the way you do, please show me ONE link that says you can do this, and shows how. I would love the ability to strip out what I need and discard all the rest. Please enlighten us.

[persianboy]

check this out, a sample app by microsoft, first checks to see if the framework in installed, if not installs it , then runs your .msi file

you can also download the code , and customize it

Click



but anyway as hellswraith said , the framework must be installed

[Cander]

Originally posted by Danny J
Half of what you said is incorrect, and you're making it sound impossible to deploy an appy. Microsoft was smarter than that. Add a Windows Installer project and customize the way you want your installation. The installer automatically detects what aspects of the .NET framework you are using, puts into a compact form whereas if you used the drawing namespace, it will include only the drawing namespace, and other materials to get your appy running. You don't HAVE to include the complete framework, that's why they call it the Compact Framework. Don't reply if you don't have the right answers.

Good luck!

Utterly clueless. Dont tell people to not reply if they dont have the answers then post this nonsense.

[VBGangsta]

This is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. Including the whole Frame work? Thats 23MB and my program is only 3MB. Is there a way to package may program and the framework together so that the grmework is automatically insatlled forst then my program?

[hellswraith]

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...asp?frame=true

But instead of including it, why don't you just go ahead and tell users to visit the windows update site to download the framework? Let the burdon be on MS, not you. Of course, if you are distributing it on CD, then go ahead and include it so the user doesn't have to download it.

[Cander]

Originally posted by VBGangsta
This is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. Including the whole Frame work? Thats 23MB and my program is only 3MB. Is there a way to package may program and the framework together so that the grmework is automatically insatlled forst then my program?

Why not keep them seperate so people that already have it dont need to download another 23 megs?

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by VBGangsta
This is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. Including the whole Frame work? Thats 23MB and my program is only 3MB. Is there a way to package may program and the framework together so that the grmework is automatically insatlled forst then my program?

Yup and it only gets worse as time goes on, since Microsoft wants to release a new framework every year.

Your only bet is Salamander's mini-deploy which takes the parts you need of the framework and includes it. Right now it's in beta and I'm a tester, works fairly good and using WinRAR you can get the entire package size of a program down to about 3MB.

However, un-RARed it's still about 20MB.

If you don't want to include 20MB of framework for the small program you made, either buy Salamander's mini-dploy tool when it's released or learn a better language like C++.

[Crunch]

Uh... you realize that in future versions of Windows, the Framework will be built into the OS. The only reason this thread is even an issue right now is because .NET is new. The exact same issue has applied to all types of development platforms that do not produce completely self-contained executables - VB of all previous versions, Java, and so on. It's only an issue because the original poster's app is the first .NET app his clients are installing.

And yeah they're going to release a new version of the Framework every year or two - what about it? Every other major software vendor does the same thing. So it's big to download, well so is a service pack and so is simple crap like Adobe Acrobat or NVidia's driver set - NVidia releases new versions way more often than MS ever does. Is this terribly shocking for anybody?

On C++: what do you do when a service pack changes a particular API call and breaks your code? Find a better language?

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by Crunch
Uh... you realize that in future versions of Windows, the Framework will be built into the OS. The only reason this thread is even an issue right now is because .NET is new. The exact same issue has applied to all types of development platforms that do not produce completely self-contained executables - VB of all previous versions, Java, and so on. It's only an issue because the original poster's app is the first .NET app his clients are installing.

No, VB has always had the problem of needing to include alot of extra files.

Despite the framework being built into Microsoft's OS, new versions will come out requiring the user to download another 20MB or larger update to use new .NET applications so they'll be in the exact same boat as we are in today.

Originally posted by Crunch

And yeah they're going to release a new version of the Framework every year or two - what about it? Every other major software vendor does the same thing. So it's big to download, well so is a service pack and so is simple crap like Adobe Acrobat or NVidia's driver set - NVidia releases new versions way more often than MS ever does. Is this terribly shocking for anybody?

Completely unreleated. Software updates add functionality for a program you use, they don't make things you MAKE with the software require the same things. Same with drivers.

You are comparing apples to oranges

Originally posted by Crunch

On C++: what do you do when a service pack changes a particular API call and breaks your code? Find a better language?

No, first off, C++ does not require Microsoft's crap and APIs. Second, Microsoft hasn't really updated the win32 API much and when they did, it was in a way to NOT break previous applications.

and no, there is no better language than C++.

[dis1411]

Originally posted by VBGangsta
This is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. Including the whole Frame work? Thats 23MB and my program is only 3MB. Is there a way to package may program and the framework together so that the grmework is automatically insatlled forst then my program?

yyuuuup.. blame chairman bill

Originally posted by Crunch
Uh... you realize that in future versions of Windows, the Framework will be built into the OS. The only reason this thread is even an issue right now is because .NET is new. The exact same issue has applied to all types of development platforms that do not produce completely self-contained executables - VB of all previous versions, Java, and so on. It's only an issue because the original poster's app is the first .NET app his clients are installing.

this may be true but wont be a reality for a couple years, and who knows where .net will be by then

personally for now im stickin w/ 'the sixes'

[Crunch]

Java requires JRE to run. It ain't small. People don't ***** about this with respect to Java.

//No, first off, C++ does not require Microsoft's crap and APIs. Second, Microsoft hasn't really updated the win32 API much and when they did, it was in a way to NOT break previous applications.

That's not correct in my experience - C++ most certainly does rely on external stuff when you're calling a Win32 API. I can recall a utility that I wrote where a function's input was changed from one type to another in a Windows NT 4 service pack, and my utility broke.

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by Crunch
Java requires JRE to run. It ain't small. People don't ***** about this with respect to Java.

Yes people do ***** and alot of people don't like Java.

I personally hate it. It's a ******* of a language, not saying VB isn't.

Originally posted by Crunch
That's not correct in my experience - C++ most certainly does rely on external stuff when you're calling a Win32 API. I can recall a utility that I wrote where a function's input was changed from one type to another in a Windows NT 4 service pack, and my utility broke.

I call BS on that. So you wrote a function, but the input was changed from 1 type to another because of a service pack? Post the source code, I highly doubt that and even if they did, they wouldn't of made it such a huge change that it would break the utility.

[Edneeis]

kasracer if you hate VB so much especially .NET then why post here? Thats not a retorical question either, I'm curious.

The issue of the framework is really a non-issue if someone doesn't like it either develop a way around it or use a different language. You should do enough research on a language before using it to at least know what it takes to deploy an application written in it. Otherwise you might find that you have wasted a lot of development time.

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by Edneeis
kasracer if you hate VB so much especially .NET then why post here? Thats not a retorical question either, I'm curious.

1. I am going to college for programming and 1 of the required courses will be in VB so I figured I'd teach myself VB before hand. It also doesn't hurt to know another language.
2. I also post here incase I can help someone with code

I don't go into this part of the forum alot anymore, I'm usually in the other parts.

Originally posted by Edneeis
The issue of the framework is really a non-issue if someone doesn't like it either develop a way around it or use a different language.

Which is why I mentioned to use another language OR check out Salamander's mini-deploy when it's actually released.

It works pretty good and doesn't require the .NET framework, instead it makes a miniture framework to distribute and when using the RAR format to distribute, it can be compressed down to a fairly good size.

[Edneeis]

Yeah the Salamander thing sounds cool for people who are finiky about that sort of thing. Distributing the framework doesn't bother me personally. It helps that I work in a corporate environment so deployment is a much more controlled issue.

Also I wasn't trying to dog you if it sounded that way I was just making sure someone didn't have a gun to your head forcing you to post in the vb.net forum.

[hellswraith]

Remember, the user doesn't have to upgrade their framework to the newest version unless your app requires it. If you developed your app targeting the 1.0 framework, the user doesn't need to download the 1.1 framework for your app to run. So if you are developing an application, you can do it targeting the 1.0 framework, and that is all the user needs. Then, it doesn't matter if MS releases 2.0, 5.0, 5.5 or whatever, your app uses 1.0. They designed it this way so applications wouldn't break.

I agree with Edneeis, it is much simpler creating internal apps for businesses instead of for end users. You have much more control of the environment and can force users to use the latest if you want.

And, just to agree, if you don't like the .net framework, don't use it! It is that simple. Move on to a language that does what you want.

[nemaroller]

I just like to add my 2-cents...

Really, the framework is very similiar to JAVA's runtime engine in terms of deployment.

As far as C++ being a better language... I doubt you would adhere to that if you had a 3 month deadline to build an international-ready enterprise level SQL-backend data application, built in multi-tier architecture and part of that architecture including webservices on an IIS server. Gaaasssppp.. AND including disconnected data functionality, plus have the ability to port over to an Oracle backend or a Unix frontend in the future if necessary. (they don't ask that of you in college do they? )

[Crunch]

//I call BS on that. So you wrote a function, but the input was changed from 1 type to another because of a service pack? Post the source code, I highly doubt that and even if they did, they wouldn't of made it such a huge change that it would break the utility.

You can call BS on it if you like, but yes, the input was changed from one type to another in a service pack. The source code I no longer have (like I said it was under NT4, and it was in something like 1998 or 1999), but it was one of the NetAPI32.dll functions, I believe NetWkstaGetInfo. The problem was that the utility began to give type mismatch errors after a service pack was applied. The fix was to take a - previously working! - utility and change one of its input types in a function call, at which point the utility started to work again.

Calling for me to post the code is cute - would you have built a couple of NT4 machines with various service packs applied and C++ 5 so you could test it yourself? Can you even still get the old service packs (I believe this was in the SP2 and SP3 days)? You can believe this or not, I really do not care. But if you think the Win32 API is this magical block of functionality that has never evolved in the past 10 years, you're mistaken.

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by Crunch
You can call BS on it if you like, but yes, the input was changed from one type to another in a service pack. The source code I no longer have (like I said it was under NT4, and it was in something like 1998 or 1999), but it was one of the NetAPI32.dll functions, I believe NetWkstaGetInfo. The problem was that the utility began to give type mismatch errors after a service pack was applied. The fix was to take a - previously working! - utility and change one of its input types in a function call, at which point the utility started to work again.

Calling for me to post the code is cute - would you have built a couple of NT4 machines with various service packs applied and C++ 5 so you could test it yourself? Can you even still get the old service packs (I believe this was in the SP2 and SP3 days)? You can believe this or not, I really do not care. But if you think the Win32 API is this magical block of functionality that has never evolved in the past 10 years, you're mistaken.

You said you wrote your own function, and now you're saying it was included in a DLL. So which is it?

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by nemaroller
As far as C++ being a better language... I doubt you would adhere to that if you had a 3 month deadline to build an international-ready enterprise level SQL-backend data application, built in multi-tier architecture and part of that architecture including webservices on an IIS server. Gaaasssppp.. AND including disconnected data functionality, plus have the ability to port over to an Oracle backend or a Unix frontend in the future if necessary. (they don't ask that of you in college do they? )

That does NOT make C++ a bad language.

VB is a niche language designed for quick development like that. That does NOT mean C++ isn't the better language, it just means the development for certain applications is shorter with VB.

I would like to add that, with .NET, you can use C++ and managed extensions to complete a C++ .NET application as quick as any VB application. It has the same drag and drop interface as well as events just like VB. However, using .NET with C++ kind of defeat's C++'s purpose since .NET breaks RAII.

[Edneeis]

I think the better language war is retarded. Languages are different and they are intended to be. Each with strengths and weaknesses. They are different tools for different purposes. To say one is better than the other is strictly opinion and is like saying that a screwdriver is better than a hammer. Each tool is best at what it was designed for.

[nemaroller]

Originally posted by kasracer
That does NOT make C++ a bad language.

VB is a niche language designed for quick development like that. That does NOT mean C++ isn't the better language, it just means the development for certain applications is shorter with VB.

I would like to add that, with .NET, you can use C++ and managed extensions to complete a C++ .NET application as quick as any VB application. It has the same drag and drop interface as well as events just like VB. However, using .NET with C++ kind of defeat's C++'s purpose since .NET breaks RAII.

Wow... come back in 5 years after working in the real world. You'd think you could make a multi-tier app as fast in C++.Net... but I wouldn't bet your personal income on paying programmers ' salaries to do it. Trust me, if my project manager thought we could this in C++ .Net in the same time period, we would be doing in that language.

[Crunch]

//You said you wrote your own function, and now you're saying it was included in a DLL. So which is it?

A lot of posters in this forum are not native English speakers, so I am hesitant to pick on your reading comprehension skills. Take a closer look at what I said:

"what do you do when a service pack changes a particular API call and breaks your code?" ... "C++ most certainly does rely on external stuff when you're calling a Win32 API. I can recall a utility that I wrote where a function's input was changed from one type to another in a Windows NT 4 service pack, and my utility broke."

API call = CALLing an API that is external to my app, in this case (as explained) the Win32 API. Do you have any idea how API programming works? I can give a further explanation of what I was doing if you like.

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by nemaroller
Wow... come back in 5 years after working in the real world. You'd think you could make a multi-tier app as fast in C++.Net... but I wouldn't bet your personal income on paying programmers ' salaries to do it. Trust me, if my project manager thought we could this in C++ .Net in the same time period, we would be doing in that language.

Dude, the C++, C# and VB all have access to the same functions, data types, ect... you could do it just as quick if you wanted to.

The reason your project manager wants you to do it in VB is probably because VB doesn't have to be compiled to see errors, unlike C++ (except in a few occasions) so simple mistakes won't waste compile time.

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by Crunch
API call = CALLing an API that is external to my app, in this case (as explained) the Win32 API. Do you have any idea how API programming works? I can give a further explanation of what I was doing if you like.

Dude, don't be a moron. I mis-read your first reply and said "So you wrote your own function, but the input of it changed after a service pack?" to clerify and you replied as if it was your function that got changed.

It's quite obvious what an API is.

Originally posted by kasracer

So you wrote a function, but the input was changed from 1 type to another because of a service pack?

Originally posted by Crunch
You can call BS on it if you like, but yes, the input was changed from one type to another in a service pack.

Who cares anyway, I'm surprized this post isn't locked yet.

[Crunch]

Heh, the mistake was yours but I'm the moron. ^_^ Okey dokey pal *ignore*

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by Crunch
Heh, the mistake was yours but I'm the moron. ^_^ Okey dokey pal *ignore*

No you made a mistake as well

[nemaroller]

Originally posted by kasracer
Dude, the C++, C# and VB all have access to the same functions, data types, ect... you could do it just as quick if you wanted to.

The reason your project manager wants you to do it in VB is probably because VB doesn't have to be compiled to see errors, unlike C++ (except in a few occasions) so simple mistakes won't waste compile time.

And that makes VB the better language for this task. You want to be professional in your career (and make $) , I suggest you avoid calling the most popular language, a niche language.

[Kasracer]

Originally posted by nemaroller
And that makes VB the better language for this task. You want to be professional in your career (and make $) , I suggest you avoid calling the most popular language, a niche language.

It IS a niche language. It is geared towards fast development and database communication.

If it wasn't a niche language, it would be all around good instead of in just a few areas.

[nemaroller]

VB isn't 'all-around good?' What do you mean? In that it can't perform 1 trillion calculations as fast as C++?? Well, with that notion, anything less than assembly or even pure machine code is a niche language. ... here's a good IDE to get you going.. http://www.negatory.com/asmstudio/

VB can do 99% of anything C++ can do. And the 1% it can't do, you could call unmanaged code to do.

Really, I would be interested to learn why VB is niche just because it handles databases well?

[Crunch]

//No you made a mistake as well

That's really weird, I was talking about Win32 API calls throughout, and you were apparently on the same page ("...Microsoft hasn't really updated the win32 API much..."), and when you jump a track it's somehow my fault. I guess my mistake was giving you credit for being able to keep up with what was being talking about.

Shrug, when I was your age I knew everything too.