Newbie in Advanced Programming

[charmedcharmer]

I need some advanced programming, you know, like serious applications and stuff.

Can someone guide me?

I don't have a book and I'll be facing a serious subject this semester..

Help me please.. Where do I start in advanced programming?

I don't need a plan, just a goal. The rest will follow on its own

[M4tt]

The way that I learnt was to think up a project, preferably at the beginning a program that already exists and then try to create it. Then as you run into problems come onto the forum and ask questions where we will only be too glad to help.

So I recommend thinking up a project and even asking for guidlines on what to do from us.

[phinds]

there are tons of free tutorials online.

[kleinma]

i dont even know any point where basic programming ends and advanced programming ends...

API might be considered advanced programming.. directX as well... it really all depends on your current set of skills and what exactly you will be learning in the course

[charmedcharmer]

hi guyz

I'm not asking you guyz to do the work for me (coz somebody told me that). All I'm asking is where to start in advancing and finish my stuff..


Well, I have a project. This is my proposal for my subject

Who knows Magic: the Gathering? <-This is basically my guide on my"suppose-to-be project". A strategy game .


So first things first, what must I do to full screen my application?

Then second, Do I need to study API for graphics? Or DirectX perhaps?

Third, what I'm thinking is like, I'll just call animations done in 3d software and embed in on click of a button in vb or command by the user.. Is this possible?

Honestly, I don't know where to start advancing my skills in vb or other languages..

Help me.. Thanks alot.. I mean it..

I don't need a plan, just a goal. The rest will follow on its own

[manavo11]

Probably basic programming ends when you know the If-Then and loop statements...

[jemidiah]

I would personally start with an easier project (my first one was a mod manager), but if you want to jump right in with DirectX, www.directx4vb.com is an EXCELLENT site. One thing to note, though; when using DirectX, you don't actually get that much experience with VB (because you use very little of the things you would in a regular program). Good luck to you

[charmedcharmer]

cud u tell me about your mod manager.. maybe i can try doing that and maybe get out of the basics.. thanks..

Thanks guys.. I mean it..

I don't need a plan just a goal, the rest will follow on its own

[Grimfort]

You have to build up knowledge with experience, you dont just learn it from a book. There are so-called advanced techniques, but they are normally just ways of doing things faster.

Something I did at college (supposedly advanced) is to create a lottery program.

You randomly pick 6 numbers, then sort them, and display them on a screen.
How about converting a number such as 12345 into roman numerals, and then from XXVI back into numeric form.

Is this the type of thing you can already do ?

Or do you want something such as creating your own application that sends emails, text messages, reads serial devices?
Maybe an MP3 player, or a text editor, a simple diary system.

I cant believe your course will go much over anything like that, as soon after creating apps like those, you can pretty much do anything that you put your mind to.

For instance, I have an application covering 4 different languages, about 1/2 million lines of code, 5 different operating systems. And when you break things down, its not very advanced, just some certain sections. And they are not so much advanced, as just working out how to solve issues they create.

Give us your background knowlege, what have you already done ? How long have you been studying ? Any other languages?

Good luck

[charmedcharmer]

I can do a lottery program. I have done data structures like a multidimensional array that forms a table of numbers and if you all a column or row, its has the same value. I've done a
best-fit, wort-fit, first-fit program.. Ive done a FIFO and LRU algorithms. I made some more stuff. i made it using C.. I still think its all basic programming. I've done a simple database program in vb.
What i want is to create a serious apps like what you said.. My course will never teach those things like creating an email program.
Basically I'll have a project before the end of the year, and it should be an application, in my case, a game shall do it..

Its simple a game that can be implemented as a text-based game, but of course, additional to that, i have to include graphics and animation to make it more of an "program".
I can program in C, C++, VC++, VB and scripting languages like Javascript, actionscript..

My real problem is how to create a serious app..

So can you help me where to start?

[Grimfort]

If you have never made a large app, but just small code sets that do just one thing or another (which is what most training manuals use. Then I would suggest you dont start with a game.
A game gives you big problems, especially if they are time related.

An application is simple. as you dont have the whole "player state" information to keep up todate. All the settings are in registry entries, files on disk, or data on forms.

Creating apps that use networking is also a bad idea, it will take up most of your time creating the communications, rather then spending it actually making a good application. Ive spent 4 years on it already .


So, that leads down to a single application, that does something local. Heres one suggestion, how about an application that monitors program development (one of the bloke in my office is doing that as it happens).

Basically, when some1 finds a bug in an application, they start the program, enter their name (so it has a loggin system). They can then enter this new bug into the program. They can see all the other bugs they have previously entered, and the list of bugs that have been fixed, and the developer has asked them to re-test.
The manager can login, and have a status report of all the bugs that are outstanding. They can see who is the most productive bug hunter, and whos not doing their job properly.
The developers login to the system, then check to see if any new bugs are there (by printing or just viewing). When they have fixed bugs, they have to be able to change the status of them, and pass them back (with comments) to the testing team.

You can start of quite simple, using the same person to enter bugs as to fix. Updating it more and more each time, giving it new features you can think of. You can then go into more advanced things like creating reports in VB, printing them. You can use databases to hold all the data, which you have already done.

Thats just one idea amongst millions. So take your time in choosing, as its a long process once you have started.

[jayakumar]

hi,

u get some useful information from these sites.

www.vbexplorer.com
www.msdn.microsoft.com

and for forums

www.devshed.com
www.vbcity.com

[charmedcharmer]

Thanks a lot.. I mean it really..

But actually it made my head turn about your program suggestion.. I don't quite understand what your trying to say... I'm not quite familiar of those bugs in applications? How do I enter bugs in an application by the way?

Honestly, I don't know where I stand when it comes to programming. I dont' know if I'm still a beginner or intermediate...
So I would really appreciate if you bear with me... And Im sorry..

Hope you could explain more of what you said about the program monitoring...

Thanks!

I don't need a plan, just a goal. The rest will follow on its own

[Grimfort]

The application I suggested that you could make IS a bug tracking system (AKA program monitoring system).
You make the application that a developement team would use (testers, managers and coders) in real life.

From what you have said, I think your about the right level to take on a project of this size. Its not huge, but has a few nice features. It doesnt include outside interference such as networking or 3rd party controls, (other then reporting and database). Most people in the forums can help you when you get stuck, as its something thats been done before.

The best thing bout creating an application with an actual use, is that you can improve it constantly. For example, you could make it so that the reports can be viewed from the internet, or that reports are attached to emails and sent weekly. You could change the application to include version control for the software that is being tested.

You might not like the idea, but if you do, draw up some kind of design, and Ill help where I can.

[Aaron Young]

It sounds to me like you're still in the begginner phase.
You've written a couple of small applications but it sounds like still
don't fully grasp what it was you were doing.
(kind of like the difference between knowing something
because you've seen it done before, and knowing something
because you understand the process.)

My suggestions to you would be:

1. Settle on a language
Having multiple languages under your belt is great,
but not if you don't understand the fundamentals of programming.
Pick one language and stick with it until you are proficient in it's
use and are comfortable writing most applications you can think
of, then consider picking up another language.

2. Go back to basics
Pick up a self-study guide or tutorial book, i.e.
SAMS - Teach Yourself <Insert Language Choice Here> in <X> days.
These have a very user-friendly layout and exercises that can help
you retain the concepts and skills you need to advance.

3. Choose a more advanced development topic
For example, Internet programming, Game Development or Data Management.
Again, get a book or read online tutorials and experiment until
you're comfortable in your chosen topic, then choose another.

4. Disect other people's code
Grab postings off of Code sites (even from this forum),
then step through the whole thing, disecting the program, code
snippet or tool line by line so that you can familiarize yourself
with different techniques, concepts and designs.

5. Have fun with it
If programming is too much like hard work, you're unlikely to ever be very proficient in it.
Set small goals and make them fun, you're more likely to retain
knowledge from an enjoyable experience than a frustrating one.

If you don't feel these things really apply to you, then perhaps
you're just approaching the problem wrong.

For example, you said you want to write a strategy game and
you'll need to include graphics and/or animations.

Well, break it down into managable parts, i.e.

How to I display a graphic,
How do I animate it,
Etc...

Regards,

- Aaron.

[Merri]

For a something like Magic the Gathering, in simplest you just need a few pictureboxes to begin with. You also might want to know how to create own Types, maybe Collections and arrays... after that it's pretty much math and making the cards. I guess you'd spend more time expanding the card database than doing the actual game program itself.

If you want to see some advanced graphics with just API, you can take a look at my Underground and why not Arena Deluxe projects. I've posted both on PSC and the first one in the VB6 codebank of this forum. Though I believe it might be just too much for you right now... there's so much little details you should know first. It is like learning a new language you use to speak


Btw, after learning the very basics, the fastest way to learn is to look other people's code and make it work in the way you want it to. Very very effective.

[Cimperiali]

...and by the way, charmedcharmer:
I am one of those who read a lot. Get this advice: a technical book can change your life, but in any case, no sense asking for advanced when you do not know the beginning.
1)Microsoft Visual Basic 6.0 Programmer's Guide (microsoft press)
is hard enough
When you have read it all, go back to shop and get
2)Programming Vb6.0 by Francesco Balena
and, when you finished, if you still want more you can get a really dangerous book (it require you to think like C and C++ developers to be useful)
3)Matthew Curland: Andvanced Visual Basic 6: Power techniques for everyday programs
(but I warn you: this last is a hard one!)

[charmedcharmer]

actually guys im not a beginner when it comes to programming.. ive been programming for 2 years now (school) and heres the case.. every semester they are teaching us a different language (Pascal, C, C++, VB) but they leave most of the advance topics behind.. like for example in C, libraries were not discussed and even pointers.. I've only known them through self studying..
in general they are teaching the most common codes and stuff.. they dont go in depth with the language.. so thats my big problem..

I'm starting to go back to the basics in C++.

I think I can do the magic card game through text based only meaning no graphics presentation. so problem is making it a multimedia game..

I'll start conceptualizing the textbased magic game, and ill give you a sample guyz if ever i finished that. but if i finished that can I simply continue that project and just put some graphics to it?

Thanks guyz..

[Cimperiali]

...(C) libraries were not discussed and even pointers...

pointers are not advanced stuff in C...It seems they do not teach
even the basic...
In any case, your effort to know more higlight your honor.

To have code examples and starting points to your projects, take
a look at:
www.planet-source-code.com
you will find a lot of of them for free.
And stay stick with one of these forums: your problem solving
and developing skill will be enanched a lot.

Cesare Imperiali

[charmedcharmer]

Yeah I know those are still the basics and that probably leaves me to being a beginner.. hehe.

well im glad you guyz are here to enlighten me. may you help me along the way.

to think that im one of the good programmers in our school.. where does my colleages belong to if im still a beginner... hehe
And think about this guyz, they are expecting us to write a thesis with software...hihi

hey guyz thanks alot.. keep posting something about stuf ok?

Thanks alot... I mean it...

[Grimfort]

In my experience, colleges teach you about syntax, but not actually how to program. They try to, but I think it takes time for things to "click" into place.

One day you will just sit there looking at a screen and think, hmmmm so thats how you program .

[Merri]

The actual thing schools lack is the time. There's just not enough time for teaching programming. Programmin takes a LOT of time. You need to do it (nearly) daily in the beginning to get yourself on it... and then it might just take years to learn how to do optimized, good code on the fly (well, atleast code that is easy to remake/edit/expand later on). There are many many little things, if I started to make a list here of all I know I'd be here still in the next millennium writing and fixing the information, if I could live that long

The more sources you use, the more you do, the more you live with it, the better you eventually become. It shouldn't disappoint... my first programs with VB were like a midi player, a jackpot game, simple schedule program... at that time I knew C64 basic pretty well. VB is pretty much different from C64 basic...

With C64 I did very very simple things in the beginning... like simple textcolor fading (by changing text color and slowing the thing down with a for-next loop that didn't do anything...). Or just a thing that printed something. Later on I took a step to sprites and how to make sounds... Basically, I looked for all the easy cool things that I could do from the manuals I had (there were no internet at the time!)

[Grimfort]

And then you install .Net and learn how to really program, by completly confusing yourself with multi-threading .

[Merri]

Well, I don't have .NET yet. Dunno if I happen to get in touch with it anytime soon. Guess I must if I want to get a job on the business

But hey, it's much more challenge to try to do multithreading with normal VB

[nemaroller]

Game programming is probably one of the hardest types of programming there is. There's so much involved, and with certain types of games, optimization and speed are so crucial, you can't get by with half-arsing your way through the code.

Next to that, I'd say database programming comes next, perhaps tied with network programming. Database programming simply because validation, coercion, and correction of data is one of the more tedious chores in programming.

Add to that, everything can change within the scope of a few years... as an example, compared to four years ago, now, its almost crucial to know how to develop XML-enabled applications, webservices, etc.

The next thing you have to realize is that you, as a single programmer, cannot compete very effectively in a market against corporations that consists of legions of programmers. Not because they are smarter, but in programming to solve a solution, there is always a race against time. As I mentioned in the paragraph above, in 3-4 years, everything changes, and you end up back to nearly square one. Only a legion of programmers can keep up with changing technologies and implement them in applications.

C++ is a good language, but in my mind, I could never get past how many different libraries there were available. You could literally choose from over 1000 different classes that do the same thing, each with their own little quirks and dependencies. I like .Net because here you have a common library that may be updated, but you know that, for example, StringBuilder is THE defacto standard for building strings. Java is swell too, but .Net is developing faster than Java (Microsoft has always been good about getting out good development tools and most importantly, DOCUMENTATION).

What you really need to do is figure out what type of programming interests you. I have been programming for over 8 years, but if you asked me to create even an abysmal 3D game, you'd be waiting a long time, and would probably laugh at the results.
The point is: No one programmer knows everything, and each has their own special niches where they excel. You have to pick what interests you, and second most important, be able to find a way to make a living off that.

Some colleges have great Computer Science programs, where some others, really shouldn't call their graduates programmers. If you find your college lacking, it probably is (most are!). You may be better served and find you get more knowledge for the buck, if you enroll in a school that focuses only on IT and computer science.

Good luck.

[Grimfort]

Originally posted by nemaroller
Game programming is probably one of the hardest types of programming there is.

Next to that, I'd say database programming comes next, perhaps tied with network programming. Database programming simply because validation, coercion, and correction of data is one of the more tedious chores in programming.

You have just described my life . At work I program in networking (large client server app, to loads diff OS systems). At home I program a game (new release coming soon!), again client server. There is sooo much to learn, that you soon forget exact details of one, so it takes longer to get down to the nitty gritty stuff, then if you do it continuously. Ive decieded to completly ignore web services and XML (other then basic level) as you just start loosing the plot after a while. I dont sleep enough as it is .

O, and one thing thats hardly mentioned anywhere in programming books, make notes to yourself. Yellow stickies all over the room.

[petrus]

Visual Basic ends after If....then, then the advanced stuff comes (C++)

[charmedcharmer]

im certainly getting most of what-youre-trying-to-say. and thanks a lot, i guess im still a beginner compare to you guys.. and most probably it will take some more time before i reach where you are all right now..

And no matter what it takes, i'll be finishing a simple but serious application by the end of the year.. to pass to my subject.. whether i pass that game im thinking which is i think is easy (except for some graphics, coz i know for sure i dont need collisions blah blah) or some idea i'll get from you guyz..

So guyz give me more suggestions on what app should i make... pls pls pls .. a simple but serious application that doesn't take much of time on reseaching.. please..

Thanks a lot..

Please give me suggestions on what app should i make...

[petrus]

You could write a chat that uses my chat protocol (I've a great server).
You need to know winsock and some basic controls like listviews.

[charmedcharmer]

care to tell me some more of the details and what i need and what i should learn ? i think it would be a good program for my thesis.. (we call this subject baby thesis actually). maybe you cud help me how to create that program of yours..

Thanks a lot for helping me guyz! I'll never forget yah!

[petrus]

You can ask me here:
MSN: [email protected]
ICQ: 128716725
IRC (q-net & freenode): petrusss
And, you can PM me

[nemaroller]

Well... I'll give you one idea. I'm actually finishing working on this type of project as we speak. It's not exactly thrilling work, and it won't win you praise from your friends, but it is the type of work common in the business world (the one that pays).

You could develop a Point of Sale system for retailers. Point of sale systems are a good way to learn programming, especially if you want to get your hands dirty with databases and OOP design.

In my case, I am working for a furniture retail chain. Not very exciting already is it?

But, here's the problem:

They have a financial program, Intuit's Quickbooks, which they have used for oh so many years, to keep track of customer sales, payments, inventory, vendor bills, etc.

Unfortunately, even Quickbooks is still difficult for salespeople to use, so they need a way to automate sales entry, and also provide product information which Quickbooks just can't provide.

So my task is simply to develop a system that allow salespeople to enter sales, receive payments, and look up invoices. It also should allow for the receiving personel to be able to log shipments from vendors, so the outlet stores know when the furniture has arrived, so it can be delivered to the customer. It should also be able to log any damage occured in shipment.

Still with me?

Anyway, you may see here, a system like that needs a few things.

1) A boatload of classes that represent real-world objects (customers, invoices, salespeople, invoiceitems, vendors, fabrics, frames, returns, payments)

2) A database to store the information such as as product dimensions (height, width), product cost, suggested retail, etc, images, whatever...

3) A "channel" to communicate information with Quickbook's, so the program can automatically add invoices, payments, etc. Luckily, Intuit exposed some API's that make this tremendously easier.

Just those three things involve class design, interfaces, serialization, recordsets, database design, API programming, XML-based messaging, and a host of other things to make your face drop of your skull in a fury of tedius boredom.

Then you have to debug the whole damn thing so people won't bother you, and you won't get fired.

[charmedcharmer]

so its like a system analysis and design.. (am i ryt, i know im ryt)
We had that subject last semester.. but we didnt made a software.. only planning and design..

I think its a good idea... I try thinking about it.. I think its easy too.. slight. Thanks alot. Ill pm you when I get a get lost with your program.. Ill read try to understand ur explanation

Thanks for ideas guyz! its helping me alot... theres still time.. i still have 3 months... hihi..

And guyz dont suggest a very serious app ha.. but suggest something they will think i had a hard time with..

Thanks

[run_GMoney]

Has anyone done a calendar before? I'm curious about techniques for displaying previous/next months.

[charmedcharmer]

Hey guyz thanks for all the tips. I'll try to go back to you guyz if i need some help. for now i shall study more and have fun..

And guyz give me some more suggestions on what app shud i create...

please... thanks alot! thanks to all of ya!

I dont need a plan, just a goal. The rest will follow on its own

[yrwyddfa]

I, for once, disagree.

Programming is a mindset - not a set of tools. Once a programmer understand how the machine works, and executes your code, then I would call the programmer advanced.

If you learn to program well, then you should be able to apply that knowledge to any tool that suits your project purpose.

[kedaman]

theres no such classification, there are just academics and non academics, everything else is profession specific

[tuantran]

Hello Mr. Young

I have some problem with the Visaul Basic 6 function...Can you show me how to write the array function number and switch it number...example 1 2 become 2 1
thank you very much

[Cimperiali]

I think this is easier to reverse a number:

Option Explicit
 
Private Sub Command1_Click()
    Dim anumber As Long
    anumber = "123456"
    MsgBox reverseNumber(anumber)
End Sub
Private Function reverseNumber(ByVal Num As Long) As String
    Dim tmpNum As String
    tmpNum = CStr(Num)
    reverseNumber = StrReverse(tmpNum)
End Function

[mendhak]

I think this is even easier:

Private Sub Command1_Click()
    Dim anumber As Long
    anumber = "123456"
msgbox strreverse(str(anumber))
end sub