I want 2 B Assembly Programmer.... plz help...

**ßädbö¥** · Jul 31st, 2003, 02:36 AM

Hi....
I'm a VB Programmer and i want 2 learn Assembly.... I don't know anything about Assembly... How it works... Code systax.... nothing.. U can say this is my starting 2 learn Assembly... plz help me... Give me any info about assembly which will help me to b a good assembly programmer.... Thnx u all

**si_the_geek** · Jul 31st, 2003, 04:13 AM

First of all - don't even think about it yet. (Visual) Basic is the one of the easiest languages to learn, Assembler is the hardest.

If you really want to do it, learn C first - it's somewhere in between the two.

**ßädbö¥** · Jul 31st, 2003, 04:25 AM

Yah..... i'm learning C and i also want 2 learn Assembly.. i think i can learn both languages at same time..... plz give me info about assembly... Thnx

**si_the_geek** · Jul 31st, 2003, 04:31 AM

I really wouldn't recommend that... you need to understand things much better before you can dive in to it safely. You really need to understand the concepts that you will learn in C.

The best thing for you to do would be to create a few C programs first, then find yourself some good tutorials for assembler.

**ßädbö¥** · Jul 31st, 2003, 04:51 AM

But i think i can learn Assembly very easily... if u gurus help me....
I hope u'll help me...

**Darkwraith** · Jul 31st, 2003, 02:36 PM

Of course we will help.

The 80x86 instruction set is very easy to learn, however it is verrry hard to master. Even more so if you have not had experience in another language.

Personally, I would learn C++, or Java first and then move on to C and then goto 80x86 or if you are on a Mac 680x0. (I think I have the name right.

)

If you learn C and then goto C++, you are going to pick up on some bad habits. Also, if you learn assembler before a high level language, there is a good possibility that you could get lost.

However, this is my suggestion...

**ßädbö¥** · Aug 2nd, 2003, 04:46 AM

if u guys explain me with some examples (with comments ) then it will be very easy 4 me.... thnx and also suggest me about good compliler,linker and editor.... thnx

**Darkwraith** · Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:41 PM

NASM is a pretty good assembler. NASM-IDE a is nice interface. I believe ALINK is pretty good too (albeit that I have not tried that one yet.

)

And its all free!

Now what would you like as an example?

**ßädbö¥** · Aug 4th, 2003, 03:03 AM

to make programme in Assembly i need one compiler, one linker and .... anything else ?

**Darkwraith** · Aug 4th, 2003, 02:00 PM

Just download NASM and NASM-IDE. that should be enough for making your programs for right now.

**CornedBee** · Aug 5th, 2003, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by ßädbö¥
to make programme in Assembly i need one compiler, one linker and .... anything else ?

In assembly it's called an assembler, not a compiler.

When programming for windows, you could also use the resource script compiler, it comes with the windows SDK.

**Darkwraith** · Aug 5th, 2003, 02:18 PM

Where could I get a version of that?

**CornedBee** · Aug 6th, 2003, 01:21 AM

MS.

**Darkwraith** · Aug 6th, 2003, 05:15 PM

Could you please provide a link to the Windows SDK?

**CornedBee** · Aug 7th, 2003, 01:46 AM

Is it so hard to search for yourself? I have no link stored, and I won't go searching.

Start here:
download.microsoft.com
or maybe
downloads.microsoft.com

**Darkwraith** · Aug 7th, 2003, 09:33 AM

I am a bit fuzzy on what I'm looking for.

Is this it?

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...DisplayLang=en

(NOTE: After searching through MS's site, I did find a link to both 16bit and 32bit SDKs. Apparently, they are not there anymore.

)

**Darkwraith** · Aug 7th, 2003, 05:09 PM

Bah. Can't find one for assembler but I found one for C / C++

http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/...sdk/sdkupdate/

**ZaidGS** · Aug 23rd, 2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Darkwraith

If you learn C and then goto C++, you are going to pick up on some bad habits. Also, if you learn assembler before a high level language, there is a good possibility that you could get lost.

However, this is my suggestion...

i have heard this sentence a lot: "if you learn C and C++ later, you'll pick some bad habits"..............

i kno that if you know c++ you already know C, i dont really
have a good idea of what is in c++ that is not in c,
but "BAD HABITS", lik what ????! why ??
(i kno this is off the topic, but not a big deal is it?

)

**Darkwraith** · Aug 23rd, 2003, 10:33 PM

You really do not know how much you are missing out on if you do not learn C and you program in C++. I just started to learn C so I cannot say too much other than the fact that there are a few more commands that give you explicit control over aspects of your program and that C introduces you (at least what I am finding out through my book that I am reading) to some deeper aspects of programming.

However, you can pick up habits like valuing structured programming over object-oriented. Also, you might use memset / free instead of new / delete.

**CornedBee** · Aug 24th, 2003, 06:29 AM

Bad habits from C to C++:
malloc/free
procedural programming style
#define instead of template inline or const
pointers where references would suffice

Those come readily to mind, I'm sure there are others. The second is the worst and the hardest to come by.

**cyborg** · Aug 24th, 2003, 02:18 PM

here's a really good ide:
http://www.negatory.com/asmstudio/

**cyborg** · Aug 24th, 2003, 02:22 PM

i really want to learn asm too...i know C/C++ and VB...
does anyone have any good tutorials on asm?

i want to make some basic math functions (calcing distance, roots, average, etc..) in asm and being able to use them in a C/C++ project.

can anyone tell me where to start?
i dont know any asm but i want to learn the basics!

**Kasracer** · Aug 24th, 2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by cyborg
i really want to learn asm too...i know C/C++ and VB...
does anyone have any good tutorials on asm?

i want to make some basic math functions (calcing distance, roots, average, etc..) in asm and being able to use them in a C/C++ project.

can anyone tell me where to start?
i dont know any asm but i want to learn the basics!

Wait, you recommended a "really good IDE" but don't know any ASM... hmm any ASM gurus like the IDE?

lol

I am also wanting to learn ASM because I want to create my own OS and this would help out ALOT.

**cyborg** · Aug 24th, 2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by kasracer
Wait, you recommended a "really good IDE" but don't know any ASM... hmm any ASM gurus like the IDE?

i recommended that IDE because it looks and works exactly as VC++ does. so if you know VC++, you know Negatory Asm Studio!

**Darkwraith** · Aug 25th, 2003, 10:29 AM

The Art of Assembly Language (book or electronic form.)

**PT Exorcist** · Nov 22nd, 2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by cyborg
here's a really good ide:
http://www.negatory.com/asmstudio/

omg i tried several IDEs and had always lots of problems compiling etc and this IDE rules a LOT

thanks!

**Darkwraith** · Nov 24th, 2003, 10:48 AM

I really did not have problems with NASM

**silk.odyssey** · Dec 1st, 2003, 09:57 AM

ßädbö¥ ,

The best way for you to learn assembly language is to read the Art of Assembly Language 32 bit edition. It uses HLA, the high level assembler. It will guide you gently in assembly programming. It was designed for people know know a high level language and want to learn assembly language. It comes with a comprehensive library of routines to do common tasks like string handling, file input/output etc. It will get you writing programs quickly so have a look at it. The author of the book frequents the win32asmboard and the
masmforum
and he would answer any question you may have.

Art of Assembly Language:

http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA.html

**Darkwraith** · Dec 8th, 2003, 06:05 PM

Knowing the language does not mean that you know how to program in it. Knowing assembler only means that you know how to code in assembler.

It takes months, if not years, of work in order to become a decent programmer.

**art_sands** · Dec 8th, 2003, 10:40 PM

yes Darkwraith is right here.

*programming* for a person does take a long time to become something substantial.......according to a research paper, it takes a person around 10 years to become proficient in programming. While, this may be in context to a reply in the above posts, you should consider the fact that "programming" and "programming language" are two different things. Even if you know C doesn't necessarily mean that you know programming. It doesn't only apply to assembly language. The point still stays. Learning assembly language is simple. Learning programming is difficult.

Programming is the art of getting things done using computers, whereas a programming language is a way of communication with the machine. Learning a programming language is very easy. While anybody can write code a machine understands, the one writing code that humans can also understand is called a code god. However, this should not be taken in a very literal sense, since every human being cannot be a programmer. When I say, "humans can understand" in the above comment, it implies programmers. It's the job of a programmer to know what he is supposed to. Know programming as well as the programming language.

You cannot expect a person to know programming unless he knows its language. The point is simple. Learning the programming language is only a step toward learning programming. Once you've got programming, learning any damn language becomes easy.

Regards,
Art

**silk.odyssey** · Dec 9th, 2003, 05:29 AM

Art,

Well said, couldn't agree more

**plenderj** · Dec 9th, 2003, 02:49 PM

M68K Assembler is the easiest to pick up in my opinion. Very easy (comparatively speaking!) to learn. It also gives you great appreciation for a lot of the features of the x86 chipset.

**Darkwraith** · Dec 9th, 2003, 03:01 PM

The point is that if you are starting out on the road to becoming a programmer, any assembly language is a very bad to start. It takes a lot of code and patience to write a program in assembly.

... And if you decide to use a lot of invokes to simplify yout code, then you might as well program in C / C++.

**art_sands** · Dec 9th, 2003, 05:09 PM

The thing you are not getting here is that assembly language is not bad. it's code habits that are bad. Its incorrectly used logic that is bad. It's incorrect human temperament that is bad. And discouragement is the worst. C has a purpose. assembly has a purpose. We do not say that you should program everything in assembly. No one ever did say that even if you could. (Well, that might soon change because of some of my plans though). But it holds for now.

Use the right tool for the right purpose. not to discourage people using C, but C has an extremely high level of abstraction from the machine which doesn't give a programmer the full understanding of what his/her code is doing. Assembly clears the cloud, and after learning assembly language, it's extremely highly probable that you'll end up writing much better code than without learning it.

Any language is not bad. All have limitations. There's a lot of hoopla about Java, but to some programmers it's pure ****. Well, that's their viewpoint, but it has its uses too. Java programs are said to provide security, but what about the security of intellectual property. Java code is extremely easily decompilable, and you can imagine why corporates are not interested in producing production non-open-source code in Java. They simply won't.

Use the right tool for the right purpose. That's the point.

As for beginning in asm, our community is putting in a lot of effort at producing an excellent reference that is suitable even for beginners! What asm programmers lack is good documentation and good support. Try coding Win32 API in Visual Basic without MSDN, or even knowing only the Visual Basic syntax. It's dead impossible! Visual Basic without its IDE is sick. But certainly one of the greatest environments ever created. Kudos to the VB production team at Microsoft. (Hope ya guys are doin fine...

)

Regards,
Art

**Darkwraith** · Dec 9th, 2003, 11:57 PM

Bah... I hate it when I do this...

...any assembly language is a very bad [place] to start

As for beginning in asm, our community is putting in a lot of effort at producing an excellent reference that is suitable even for beginners!

I disagree. True, there have been efforts to make assembler easier to learn, but just because you read a book about assembler, it does not mean that you can program in it right off the bat. Really, beginner programmers should start in a high-level language (VB, C++, Smalltalk, etc...) and then program in assembler with the experience gained.

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