Guantanamo Bay ....

[honeybee]

Guantanamo Bay casts shadow on Britain
Times of India, Monday 28th April 2003

It may all have been very different if we were talking about the rights of terrorists operating in Jammu and Kashmir or the extradition of Abu Salem to India. But, Britain's famous sense of fairplay and exaggerated emphasis on human rights is nothing when it comes to the following, intensely ugly facts:

* At least 20 European nationals, from countries ranging from across the European Union, are presently incarcerated in the legal black hole, that American-run Gulag, called Guantanamo Bay.
Though impossible to confirm, it is entirely likely that none of these Europeans is white. The only Taliban-Al Qaeda fighter of America, publicly charged, tried and despatched with due legal process, is the white Muslim American convert, John Walker Lindh.

* Britain, Denmark, Spain, Belgium and France are all accused by human rights groups of publicly caring little and privately not at all about their citizens who continue to be illegally incarcerated with more than 600 detainees.

* Sweden is the only European exception, bravely and somewhat controversially, to have protested most forcefully about the "legal limbo" in which its lone national is being held in Guantanamo Bay's Camp Delta.

Few in public or political life in Britain, America's chief ally and cheerleader, appear worried that their own nationals make up the largest Western contingent at Guantanamo Bay.

The West's conspiracy of silence over Guantanamo Bay is deafening, but it may actually speak volumes about multi-culturalism and the real-time skirmishes of the clash of civilizations. Is multi-culturalism really an article of faith for Britain and the new EU? Or is it just a fashionable marketing tool for ready-chilled meals and ethnic room chic?

Unlike the Stalinist Gulag, there may never be a latter-day Alexander Solzhenitsyn to tell us and lay bare the reality of the Stars and Stripes gulag. Few believe we will ever know, even later, whenever the morally brutalised American administration declares its "war on terror" to be over.

But it is striking that Europe's carefully-constructed, complex architecture of laws, human rights legislation, fussy safety procedures and diplomatic do-gooding is almost quiescent while the world's most powerful country drives a battering ram through the gates of civilised conduct. Now, the Americans have admitted they are holding children captive as well. The Europe that is perilously strict about visa violations, smoking in public, over-long sausages and extraditing Salem to a country where he would receive the death penalty, is unresponsive.

The detained men, who were flown to the remote military base are still illegally classified "enemy combatants". In defiance of the Geneva Convention and all international law, they continue to be held without charges.

When the rhetoric of rights and responsibility is directed at the Third World, it may be right to remember, say, these sons of Tipton in the English Midlands, and hundreds of others, Terrorists or Taliban, reckless adventurers or the unluckiest of innocents, Guantanamo Bay raises serious concerns about their future, their health, the future of international law and health of the Western concept of justice-for-all.

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[Xanith]

I stopped reading at "...are presently incarcerated in the legal black hole, that American-run Gulag, called Guantanamo Bay.

Maybe the Times of India should run an expose on the treatment of prisoners by Indian Security Forces inside Kashmir. Then they could get the dirt on the real Human Rights Violations happening in their own country.

X

[DeadEyes]

It is disturbing that 13yo kids are being detained.

[honeybee]

Originally posted by Xanith
I stopped reading at "...are presently incarcerated in the legal black hole, that American-run Gulag, called Guantanamo Bay.

Maybe the Times of India should run an expose on the treatment of prisoners by Indian Security Forces inside Kashmir. Then they could get the dirt on the real Human Rights Violations happening in their own country.

X

tsk, tsk, hurts, doesn't it?

It's not very diplomatic to try to turn your attention to other matters because you can't answer the one at hand. Doesn't work always

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[honeybee]

Originally posted by DeadEyes
It is disturbing that 13yo kids are being detained.

That, and almost all of them are being detained without any formal charges...

But don't expect any replies or clarifications or justifications on that. Because it's the US government's ploy to detract attention from such issues. They did it with Guantanamo Bay by invading Iraq. And they might probably attack Syria so nobody questions them about Iraq. And then maybe Iran, when Syria becomes a problematic issue ... They are not even as honest as to admit it's there.

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[venerable bede]

Any person who accepts British Citizenship then proceeds to act like complete Twatolas deserve everything they get.

I am sick to death of these Islamic Turdies using our Citizenship like a Haloween mask. Put it on when you want the natives to pay you and your family benefits then take it off to spit in our faces.

If you want America could send all the so called Brits back to our country. I am sure they and there families will have a nice welcome waiting for them.

[Xanith]

Originally posted by honeybee
tsk, tsk, hurts, doesn't it?

It's not very diplomatic to try to turn your attention to other matters because you can't answer the one at hand. Doesn't work always

.

Its not like they are being tortured and murdered like the Indian Forces have done to their prisoners inside of Kashmir.

The reason why no one is saying anything is because who really cares about a bunch of criminals and terrorists that would just assume kill themselves and thousands of other innocent people at the drop of a hat.

Again I find it funny that you care about what the US does to their criminals and terrorists when India in the past has brutally tortured and murdered people they have suspected of being terrorists. That you are so outraged at the US that they are simply holding people without being charged when your own government has tortured and killed their suspected terrorists inside of Kashmir. Where is your little India Times story about that?

X

[Ex-FB]

It is a very venomous and hatred filled article, (Gulag etc.), and there are many more even handed articles out there which I suppose would have suited the purposes of this discussion better.

The basic facts are:

-There are lots of nationals of many countries being held there against the Geneva convention.
-Most (if not all) do not have legal council.
-There are still three children being held (there were more, but in the 2 years they have been held, many have now grown up past 16... therefore no longer legally children).
-Conditions are not as bad as most prison camps
-Still conditions are not great either with 25 attempted suicides recently, no contact with family or lawyers and no sign of ever being released.
- Most Afghani's are held as prisoners of war. If the war has been declared over, then they must be released (after all, these are not terrorist, they're people who were defending their homeland from invasion - no matter how you might want to spin it).


As for the Europeans, as far as I'm concerned the only reason they should be treated as special cases is that they should be done for murder/attempted murder of US troops. I have sympathy for the Afghani's (as stated they are defending their country from an invading force), but *** is a British guy doing in there shooting at American troops. He's either committing murder or he is trying to commit murder and I believe he should be tried as such.

In short, let the Afghani's go home to their families, try all the others for murder/attempted murder.

[hellswraith]

Here is my thoughts on the whole issue:

[hellswraith]

Oh ya, and until every other country in the world even comes close to the humanity we (the US) offer our captives, I officially tell you to screw off if you are attacking our ways of treating prisoners.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'm an American, and greatly disturbed by what's happening down in Cuba. We are now detaining people indefinitely with no hope of resolution for their cases. They will remain in limbo forever, never being let out, yet never being tried for any crime...oh wait, we've been doing that for years, it just doesn't make the press. That's actually standard operating procedure for some classes of illegal immigrants. We can't send them home, but we can't release them onto the steets either. Therefore, they remain in jails with no realistic hope of release.

For those who argue how humane our prisons are, would you like to be in one for the rest of your life? Perhaps you feel that you won't be in that situation simply because you haven't committed a crime. However, you can't prove that you haven't committed a crime.

Our system relies on innocent until proven guilty, as well as access to legal representation and the writ of habeas corpus. All three of those are suspended, not just for Afghanis, but also for any American citizen designated by the government as being an enemy combatant.

They may have used such power correctly and in moderation so far, but why should we expect that they will always? Many people, myself included, feel that they have used this power neither correctly nor in moderation against somebody (who's name I can't spell, something like Jose Pedia).

I can't continue...will you be next, or will this administration lock up the liberals first. See you in a nice humane American jail.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by hellswraith
Oh ya, and until every other country in the world even comes close to the humanity we (the US) offer our captives, I officially tell you to screw off if you are attacking our ways of treating prisoners.

Interesting view you have on the world there HellsWraith. Are you saying that we should not hold ourselves to a higher standard than the lowest common denominator of the human race?

So, until everyone in the world stops committing a crime, it's okay for me to go out and commit a crime?

So, until everyone in the world agrees to the Geneva conventions, you don't feel that Western countries should abide by them?

I can see you are obviously anti-American/anti-Democracy/anti-Human rights.

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by DeadEyes
It is disturbing that 13yo kids are being detained.

More or less disturbing than 13 year olds running around with rocket launchers, gernades and a fully automatic rifle?

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
More or less disturbing than 13 year olds running around with rocket launchers, gernades and a fully automatic rifle?

Also disturbing, but imprisoning these kids away from their families without legal council is not the answer. At what stage does it become up to us to decide to discard the Geneva convention as an inconvenience? As far as I am aware, no effort is being made to re-integrate these kids back into their society and/or to give them a normal childhood. As Afghani children, they are being held illegally by the US government.

I realise that Analogies never really work in these situations, but I'll throw caution to the wind and try one

Say a Canadian gets shot by three kids in New York. The Canadian government comes down and takes the kids back to Canada and holds them indefinetly without a trial against the wishes of the US government. Wouldn't you feel that this was a bit wrong. The Canadian government could argue that they are protecting the kids from a life of crime and gangs. They could argue that they attacked a Canadian citizen. But the bottom line is they are holding a US child against his wishes.

[Xanith]

Originally posted by Ex-FB

Say a Canadian gets shot by three kids in New York. The Canadian government comes down and takes the kids back to Canada and holds them indefinetly without a trial against the wishes of the US government. Wouldn't you feel that this was a bit wrong. The Canadian government could argue that they are protecting the kids from a life of crime and gangs. They could argue that they attacked a Canadian citizen. But the bottom line is they are holding a US child against his wishes.

Yes that would be wrong.

Of course it wouldn’t be if the US and Canada were still engaged in a war and those children were also linked to terrorist groups plotting to kill Canadian citizens. Then in my opinion it would be perfectly legal for Canada to hold them as while the conflict was going on there was still a threat to Canadian soldiers and Canadian citizens.

Also if Canada wanted to keep 3 murderers and pay for their food and such and hold them I think it would be fine. Maybe we should send all of our murderers to other countries for them to hold so we don’t have to pay for them. Sounds like a good idea. Kinda like what the British did with Australia and the Spanish did with Florida

X

[honeybee]

Originally posted by Xanith
Its not like they are being tortured and murdered like the Indian Forces have done to their prisoners inside of Kashmir.

The reason why no one is saying anything is because who really cares about a bunch of criminals and terrorists that would just assume kill themselves and thousands of other innocent people at the drop of a hat.

Again I find it funny that you care about what the US does to their criminals and terrorists when India in the past has brutally tortured and murdered people they have suspected of being terrorists. That you are so outraged at the US that they are simply holding people without being charged when your own government has tortured and killed their suspected terrorists inside of Kashmir. Where is your little India Times story about that?

X

The Indian security forces are not torturing their prisoners too But you wouldn't believe that

I don't care, as a matter of fact, about the US prisoners, or whether they care a hoot about the Geneva convention, but I do care when the US government cites all the laws and regulations it can to criticize another nation, destroy and take it over, and then breaks those same rules and conventions when it comes to its own security That's called Double-standards, or maybe we should call it "Bush-talk"...

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[kleinma]

Originally posted by honeybee
The Indian security forces are not torturing their prisoners too But you wouldn't believe that

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how do you know?

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Ex-FB

Say a Canadian gets shot by three kids in New York. The Canadian government comes down and takes the kids back to Canada and holds them indefinetly without a trial against the wishes of the US government. Wouldn't you feel that this was a bit wrong. The Canadian government could argue that they are protecting the kids from a life of crime and gangs. They could argue that they attacked a Canadian citizen. But the bottom line is they are holding a US child against his wishes.

I'd tell Canada to send him back to the states so we can strap his worthless arse to an electric chair and pump enough juice into him to make his eyeballs pop out of his skull. If the canadian legal system wasnt filled with a bunch of pusses and actually killed their murderers then I'd let canada keep him. Either way the piece of crap dosn't deserve to live and if he must live it better be in a cage. It is all fine and good to say awwwhhhh pooorr child. News Flash, He is not a child any more. He is an animal with a thirst for blood. That my friend is more like a rabid dog than a young human being. You know what you have to do to a rabid dog to keep it from spreading his disease and killing others dont you?

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
I'd tell Canada to send him back to the states so we can strap his worthless arse to an electric chair and pump enough juice into him to make his eyeballs pop out of his skull. If the canadian legal system wasnt filled with a bunch of pusses and actually killed their murderers then I'd let canada keep him. Either way the piece of crap dosn't deserve to live and if he must live it better be in a cage. It is all fine and good to say awwwhhhh pooorr child. News Flash, He is not a child any more. He is an animal with a thirst for blood. That my friend is more like a rabid dog than a young human being. You know what you have to do to a rabid dog to keep it from spreading his disease and killing others dont you?

So are you saying that all POW's should be killed?

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by Xanith
.........
Of course it wouldn’t be if the US and Canada were still engaged in a war and those children were also linked to terrorist groups plotting to kill Canadian citizens. ........

The folks in Guantanamo bay are Prisoners of War, not terrorists. If you attack a country and someone defends it, then that is not a terrorist act, no matter how much your news media may over use the term.

Maybe you think the minute men were terrorists?

[kleinma]

they were defending their terrorist group.. not the country of afghanistan...

[kleinma]

just to remind all you people what these F(_)CKERS did



aww are the poor POWs not getting enough to eat??? gee that is too bad... what about the american children that dont have enough to eat because their mom or dad didnt come home from work on september 11th??

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
So are you saying that all POW's should be killed?

Of course not. These are not POWs, these are criminals who were in Afghanastan being brainwashed and trained to kill YOU becauase you are not a devout Muslim. These people are not soldiers. The majority of them are not even afghani. They are mindless killers who need to be exterminated before they can breed and have baby mindless killers. Should they be get a trial. Yes. Should it be international court. No, It should be the family members of the thousands of people who died In NYC, Washington DC, and Clarion Pennsylvania as the Judge Jury and executioner. There is not a death horrible enough for these worthless maggots. It makes me want to vomit that I am paying taxes to keep them alive.

[honeybee]

Originally posted by kleinma
how do you know?

I believe I live in India, not you or Xanith


About the finger, I think, and I thank, there are enough Americans and other European (including British ones, who will please pardon me for this slip ) here who think there's something wrong. Maybe after all the world is not going to end so soon.

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[kleinma]

Originally posted by honeybee
I believe I live in India, not you or Xanith

.

hahahaha please stop.. ouch that made me laugh so much it hurt...

ok so you live there so you know what is going on inside your government and whether or not prisoners are being tortured...

your comments just show everyone what a fool you are

[plenderj]

Hang on, so what if prisoners are being tortured or are being denied their human rights in India ?
So because its happening there, its okay for it to be happening in the US ?

You seem to pick and choose as to what aspects of morality you want to uphold.
On the one hand, you're saying that you got rid of Saddam because it was the moral thing to do because he was killing his citizens. Right, so yes it was the moral thing to do - to remove him from power.

But at the same time you are holding hundreds upon hundreds of inmates in that camp - many of whom have no charges against them.
And your government invents terms such as "illegal combattant" to justify that what they're doing is okay.

This is just picking and choosing.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by kleinma
just to remind all you people what these F(_)CKERS did



aww are the poor POWs not getting enough to eat??? gee that is too bad... what about the american children that dont have enough to eat because their mom or dad didnt come home from work on september 11th??

Alas, this is the problem with your argument. Someone hurts you, so you want to hurt someone else. What did some 13 year old kid ever do to the US? Why should they suffer for someone elses actions? They were defending their country from invaders. Simple. No amount of spin you can put on it will make them a terrorist. Trying to evoke images of 11th September is a total red herring, are you so obssessed with your grief and your hatred for those who committed the act, that you cannot see how others are being sucked up into the maelstrom?

I don't care if the lad was standing outside Osama Bin Ladens cave weilding a gun. He's been told by someone that the US are invading his country. He's been given a gun to shoot the invaders. He is not a terrorist (the boy that is).

By your logic, any lawyer who defends a rapist is also a rapist......

Besides, many of theose being held are Taliban regulars who were fighting in Kabul etc..... so the whole terrorist thing doesn't really pan out does it?

[Shaggy Hiker]

I agree, what we're doing is just plain wrong. The motivation is vengeance or fear or dominance, but it is still wrong. If we are so strong, why don't we show it by letting this strong system work the way it is supposed to, rather than throwing it overboard whenever faced with some enemy.

[plenderj]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Of course not. These are not POWs, these are criminals who were in Afghanastan being brainwashed and trained to kill YOU becauase you are not a devout Muslim. These people are not soldiers. The majority of them are not even afghani. They are mindless killers who need to be exterminated before they can breed and have baby mindless killers. Should they be get a trial. Yes. Should it be international court. No, It should be the family members of the thousands of people who died In NYC, Washington DC, and Clarion Pennsylvania as the Judge Jury and executioner. There is not a death horrible enough for these worthless maggots. It makes me want to vomit that I am paying taxes to keep them alive.

Right, exactly how many of the people held in the camp came to the US to kill Americans ?
Um... none.

They were recruited to help defend against the American attacks.
That is how the US citizen ended up in the Taliban - he was simply recruited to help defend the country.

So why should they be treated any different ?
Just because they fight for a cause you don't agree with ?


And they don't kill people just because they're not devout muslims.
There are many places a lot closer they could have done that.
They targetted the US. They didn't target freedom or democracy or any other drug induced spin the US goverment puts on it.
They targetted your country. Simple as that.

And yes they killed civilians. But civilians die all the time.
Bear in mind, that later in the day the building would have been full of people.

Something no-one has ever asked, is why didn't they use later flights.
If they just wanted to kill civilians, there are far easier ways to do it.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Of course not. These are not POWs, these are criminals who were in Afghanastan being brainwashed and trained to kill YOU becauase you are not a devout Muslim. These people are not soldiers. The majority of them are not even afghani. They are mindless killers who need to be exterminated before they can breed and have baby mindless killers. Should they be get a trial. Yes. Should it be international court. No, It should be the family members of the thousands of people who died In NYC, Washington DC, and Clarion Pennsylvania as the Judge Jury and executioner. There is not a death horrible enough for these worthless maggots. It makes me want to vomit that I am paying taxes to keep them alive.

I truely, honestly hope that this is not the way you really feel. If it is, then I hope you are in a minority in the US. Why should you expect to be treated fairly by a legal system when you are quite happy to see others handed over to a lynch mob.

Maybe you should read up on some of the cases.

Most are there because the taliban has a conscription policy that you can et out of if you pay $30. These guys didn't have the cash.

Another guy was "arressted" by Northern Alliance members, because he refused to hand over his car to one of them.... terrorists???

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
Alas, this is the problem with your argument. Someone hurts you, so you want to hurt someone else. What did some 13 year old kid ever do to the US?

He made the mistake of following a madman on a jihad against the United States

Why should they suffer for someone elses actions? They were defending their country from invaders. Simple. No amount of spin you can put on it will make them a terrorist. Trying to evoke images of 11th September is a total red herring, are you so obssessed with your grief and your hatred for those who committed the act, that you cannot see how others are being sucked up into the maelstrom?

The taliban refused after multiple requests to turn over Bin Laden. The allowed him to use their country as a training ground with full knowledge of the type of schools he was running. Tough Sheit for the Taliban. They fooked with the wrong people. Call it Macho call it whatever your little peace loving sissy can't we all get along Idealistic heart wants to. Here is a one way ticket out of fantasy land, bottom line It is not a good Idea to kill 3,000+ americans in their own back yard. You and everyone around you are most likley going to get your arses bombed into kingdome come for it. Don't Believe me? Ask Japan. Is it right? Of course not, if we live in the perfect little imaginary wourld that you live in. The reason that The US has generally been able to have an open society with loose borders is because the other maggots on the plantet were scared to death to attack us. Someone pulled a fast one on us and they are finding out exactly why no one should want to attack us.

I don't care if the lad was standing outside Osama Bin Ladens cave weilding a gun. He's been told by someone that the US are invading his country. He's been given a gun to shoot the invaders. He is not a terrorist (the boy that is).

Why don't you go and visit that 13 year old sweetheart patriotic kid. I guarentee that little sonovabiatch tries to rip your throat out in 10 seconds.

[Ex-FB]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
He made the mistake of following a madman on a jihad against the United States


The taliban refused after multiple requests to turn over Bin Laden. The allowed him to use their country as a training ground with full knowledge of the type of schools he was running. Tough Sheit for the Taliban. They fooked with the wrong people. Call it Macho call it whatever your little peace loving sissy can't we all get along Idealistic heart wants to. Here is a one way ticket out of fantasy land, bottom line It is not a good Idea to kill 3,000+ americans in their own back yard. You and everyone around you are most likley going to get your arses bombed into kingdome come for it. Don't Believe me? Ask Japan. Is it right? Of course not, if we live in the perfect little imaginary wourld that you live in. The reason that The US has generally been able to have an open society with loose borders is because the other maggots on the plantet were scared to death to attack us. Someone pulled a fast one on us and they are finding out exactly why no one should want to attack us.



Why don't you go and visit that 13 year old sweetheart patriotic kid. I guarentee that little sonovabiatch tries to rip your throat out in 10 seconds.

I am sadly dissapointed by you apparent lack of ability to carry on a conversation about this without it degenrating into insults. I had expected better of you.

Please feel free to re-join the conversation when you grow up a little bit.

Thank you.

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
I truely, honestly hope that this is not the way you really feel. If it is, then I hope you are in a minority in the US. Why should you expect to be treated fairly by a legal system when you are quite happy to see others handed over to a lynch mob.

No that is not how I truly feel. They should have shot them on the spot in Afghanastan instead of making me help pay to fly them to a beachfront high security resort(that I am also paying for).

[plenderj]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
No that is not how I truly feel. They should have shot them on the spot in Afghanastan instead of making me help pay to fly them to a beachfront high security resort(that I am also paying for).

Yet you get up in arms at the slightest idea that Iraq could have executed US soldiers.
Very choosy with your human rights aren't you ?

[Xanith]

Originally posted by plenderj
Hang on, so what if prisoners are being tortured or are being denied their human rights in India ?
So because its happening there, its okay for it to be happening in the US ?

You seem to pick and choose as to what aspects of morality you want to uphold.
On the one hand, you're saying that you got rid of Saddam because it was the moral thing to do because he was killing his citizens. Right, so yes it was the moral thing to do - to remove him from power.

But at the same time you are holding hundreds upon hundreds of inmates in that camp - many of whom have no charges against them.
And your government invents terms such as "illegal combattant" to justify that what they're doing is okay.

This is just picking and choosing.

The people being held in Cuba are not being tortured nor are they POW's so the Geneva Conventions do not apply. They are nothing but criminals and terrorists.

X

[plenderj]

Originally posted by Xanith
The people being held in Cuba are not being tortured nor are they POW's so the Geneva Conventions do not apply. They are nothing but criminals and terrorists.

X

Sensory deprovation and leaving them in tin shacks in the heat all day.
Okay, lets forget about that.

And why aren't they POWs ?
Were they not taken prisoner while they were fighting for an army defending their country ?
Why should the US get to choose who's a POW and who isn't ?

And lets pretend they're not POWs.
If they are indeed criminals, then they should have the same rights as any other criminal.
Not that they did anything wrong - all they did was defend their country.

[Xanith]

Originally posted by plenderj
Yet you get up in arms at the slightest idea that Iraq could have executed US soldiers.
Very choosy with your human rights aren't you ?

The criminals and terrorists being held in Cuba are not POW's. The US hasn't executed any of them as far as I know either. But its recognized by all nations that executing POW's is wrong.

Why so concerned about these terrorists and criminals anyway? You sure pick some strange battles, sticking up for Saddam the mass murdering dictator and support for terrorists and criminals. Interesting.

X

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Ex-FB
I am sadly dissapointed by you apparent lack of ability to carry on a conversation about this without it degenrating into insults. I had expected better of you.

Please feel free to re-join the conversation when you grow up a little bit.

Thank you.

When I grow Up? You are living in an Idealistic world. Believe me I wish things could be like you imagine them to be but they are not like that. People kill each other. People rob steal lie cheat and a loaded assortment of other BS. If you want to maintain an Open free society you have to keep the nutballs in the world in line. The only effective way to do that is with money or by force. Otherwise welcome "Big Brother" and I'm sure you do not want that.

[Xanith]

Originally posted by plenderj
Sensory deprovation and leaving them in tin shacks in the heat all day.
Okay, lets forget about that.

And why aren't they POWs ?
Were they not taken prisoner while they were fighting for an army defending their country ?
Why should the US get to choose who's a POW and who isn't ?

And lets pretend they're not POWs.
If they are indeed criminals, then they should have the same rights as any other criminal.
Not that they did anything wrong - all they did was defend their country.

They didn't have a uniform when they were captured. Most were not even native Afghani citizens they were in the country illegally. There are strict rules governing POW's under the Geneva Conventions and these people captured in Afghanistan do not fit under these conventions.

And they are considered aliens being held outside US lands and are not protected under the US Constitution as decided by US courts. Unless the Supreme Court over-turns this ruling things will stay as they are.

X

[Ex-FB]

Just to clarify. I for one have never stuck up for Saddam or terrorists. This is part of the problem with the discussions on this site. Many posters have the view that if you are not with us, you are against us, and unwilling to see that there could actually be more than two different points of view. To simplify such complex situations does not allow us to actually discuss them clearly.