VC++ Wannabe Programmer!

**jennysmith** · Feb 27th, 2003, 04:31 PM

Hi

Im a VC++ programmer wannabe. I have never programmed with C, C++, or VC++. I want to learn how to program window based applications with VC++ as quickly as possible, e.g. how to draw a button on a form and make it do something!

Can someone point me to the right directions?

**crptcblade** · Feb 27th, 2003, 04:34 PM

If you are completely new to C++, then popular opinion is to learn the language first. You'll be glad you did.

**Jop** · Feb 27th, 2003, 04:37 PM

crptcblade (what's that name suppose to mean?) is right, you'll get nowhere without at least some basic understanding of the language... making windows and stuff is all API, but still you should know C(++) before you can program functional programs in it... check out the FAQ on info where to start...

**jennysmith** · Feb 27th, 2003, 04:45 PM

Someone told me, it is very difficult to learn C++ if you don't know C! Is this true, if it is, isn't it going to take me a long time (few years) to learn C, C++ and VC++?

Would it not be better for me to go straight to C#?

**Jop** · Feb 27th, 2003, 04:56 PM

Ok that's 3 times no

You don't have to learn c before learning C++, it's recommended to learn the C subset (C stuff that's C++ is based on) though, learning C can actually slow you down in the learning process since C++ is a different way of writing programs (OOP).

And yes, learning C(++) is going to take a time... actually, the syntax is simple, so that's not going to take you a long time.. but knowing how to exploit every little thing of the language/compiler and the Standard Library is going to take a long time, and especially loads of experience.

By the way, VC++ is not a language, it's a developing enviroment (IDE + Compiler + linker etc.)

And if you need to learn C# is a whole other question... to learn C#, you need to learn the .NET framework...

**CornedBee** · Feb 27th, 2003, 05:10 PM

C# is a different type of language.

**jennysmith** · Feb 27th, 2003, 06:37 PM

I know the difference between C and C++. C = procedural, and C++ = OOP. What is C# and what is VB.NET and why use them?

**Jop** · Feb 27th, 2003, 06:45 PM

C# and VB.NET (as well as Managed C++, ASP.NET and any .NET-enabled programming language) use the .NET Framework.
The .NET framework contains alot of functions structures etc. and make life for a programmer easier... The concept is quite similar to MFC in relation to C++... Things are easier to achieve, but it means bigger program sizes (the framework has to be installed on a computer to work) and slower execution times.
The .NET framework focuses on internet-related stuff, and well... There's loads to say about .NET so I would like to recommend these sites for more info:

http://www.microsoft.com/net/
http://www.gotdotnet.com

It depends entirely on what you want to do if/why you would want to use these languages...

**made_of_asp** · Feb 27th, 2003, 11:34 PM

Start by learning language concepts first.

http://www.cplusplus.com

**Darkwraith** · Feb 27th, 2003, 11:49 PM

Win32 is somewhat difficult (somewhat as in getting used to all of the 100 lines of code that you have to write before even considering a button or dialog box.) If you want to create an application quick, I would suggest either Visual Basic or Java.

However, if you are crazy enough to continue in this endevor ( just kidding

) I would pick up a few books:

one teach yourself C++ in 21 days (for basic language stuff)
one textbook in C++ (for pracitce)
one book on Win32 programming (for your information)

**CornedBee** · Feb 28th, 2003, 05:31 AM

C# is a RAD language with all the usual advantages and disadvantages.

**korendir** · Feb 28th, 2003, 09:53 AM

I aggree with Darkwraith, If you want to write applictions and learn to write stuff faster, then go with VB.. VB6 was the first application level programming I did and then moved to C++. I am doing stuff with C# now as well, mostly for ASP.Net stuff.

There are a few things that you will want to consider though:

C++ apps compile to native machine code and does not require a runtime. When you use VB, you have to include your file, and whoever runs it has to have the vbruntime (This is not ususally a problem these days because it ships with Windows). Becuase VB has to use a runtime it does run a little slower than a c++ app that did basically the same thing.

C++ does take a logn time to learn and is a pain to code in where as you can write a simple app in VB in a fraction of the time that you can in C++. One thing with C++ that makes it so different that VB is that there are lots of datatypes and you have to manage your memory on just about everything. In VB, memory management is not near as painful.. If you wanted to write a quick program that could suck away all your memory on your system.. C++ can help..

As I stated above, the performance will be a little less with VB but if you need it quick and the performance issue is not a big deal, then VB would be the way to go.

Personally I love C++. I find it a very fun language to code in and it keeps me in my books. When using C++ most of the books you will find on Visual C++ will mostly talk about MFC.

MFC is something Microsoft put together to give C++ a more of a Rapid Development style but still use C++ to do it. All of the MFC classes come from the mfc dll that if you distributed an app, you would have to send along with it. It's not very big though.

Iyou want to do windows programming, I woulud recommend that you use the Win32 API and junk MFC.

The book that helped me out the most was:

Programming Windows, The Definitive Guide to the Win32 API by Charles Petzold

This book goes into detail on the basics of the API and was the biggest help to me in learning the API. Once you get a good grasp of the concepts, MSDN will be a big help to you.

I would find a good book on just C++ itself and learn the basic language first (Darkwraith mentioned a few) ... most of it will be number manipulation and it will probably bore you (I hated the begginner books) but take if from someone who likes to learn by jumping in, C++ is not a language you can easily just jump into. I jumped in to VB rather easily but C++ is a totally different animal.

On the issue of C#, I use mostly for ASP.Net as I said earlier but I wouldn't recommend it for desktop apps. The runtime is massive and unless you have a awesome system, you probably will see a big performace loss when using it (I have anyway).

Holy cow that is a long post!

well anyway... lemme find a place to land this thing...

Basically if you want to learn C++ have fun, but be prepared for a long brain-throbbing process. If you just want to whip up apps and don't want to hassle, use vb.

-korendir

**CornedBee** · Feb 28th, 2003, 01:03 PM

Excellent post korendir. But I wouldn't recommend anyone to learn VB6 these days, .Net languages (or Java) are the modern way to go. VB6 is ok for those who already know it, but if you're looking for a language to learn, well, VB6 is a proprietary MS language and MS has given it up in favor of .Net, so why learn it?

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