beginer vs. intermediate vs. advanced programmer. What skills are needed for each

[666539]

I'm starting my job search. I graduated from college about 4 years ago. Recruiters and employers are always throwing the terms "entry level, intermediate and advanced programmers" around.

I realize that the number of years and the projects you've worked on influence your skill level, but I'm wondering, in the opinion of the people here what SKILLS you should know to to put yourself in the categories of entry level, intermediate and advanced visual basic programmer.

[HarryW]

Entry level, I'd say little to no previous experience or knowledge; probably a basic understanding of the fundamentals like variables, arrays and functions. Know how to get around the VB IDE.

Intermediate, maybe things like API funtions, some object-orientation, database stuff, user-defined types and class modules.

Advanced, I'm guessing more serious object orientation like inheritance & polymorphism (don't think proper inheritance is actually in VB yet), COM, subclassing (? - never done this so I don't know how hard it is),

To be honest I'm guessing this. I'm guessing what the employers mean, not what the programmer might class themself as. 'Entry-level' to me says junior/apprentice/trainee. 'Intermediate' says grunt programmer who's done some stuff before but will need some on-the-job training to bring them up to speed with what the employer does. 'Advanced' says the programmer will have up to date knowledge of modern technologies, and will be able to apply them to the employer's activities pretty much straight away, with brief introductions.

What does everybody else think?

Beginning: Knowledge of none or just a few (like End).

<NO! There's no way not to even DRAW a control (no knowledge), so take "none" as not able to code.>


Intermediate: More advanced, like ADVANCED knowledge of VB functions like Unload() and Classes. API? No. API is classified as...


Advanced: API Basic knowledge. Thinking skills, complex loops, and intergrated writing of powerful code.


-> Professional: API knowledge, some INET and WIN knowledge. System control.


Expert: Memorized API knowledge and...ask Megatron.

Perfection: No one...don't ask...

[code]
Beginning -- Beginning

-
Intermediate -| Intermediate
| Advanced
-


-
Advanced -| Professional
| Expert
| Perfection
-

[dimava]

why did you post the same thing two times?

I've been working with vb for 10 months, and I would comsider my self to be a Intermediate / getting to advanced programmer. A key in VB is logic. With out it you woun't be very successful. I spend like around at least 4 hours a day on vb (sometimes more) so the more time you spend on it, the more you learn. I would also say that a beginning programmer should be able to make simple programs like

If text1.text = "Dimava" then
label1.caption = "Wazzzz uppp"
else
if text1.text = "VB" then
label1.caption = "Visual Basic"
else
if etc.....
end if
end if
end if

and a begginner might get into a little looping but thats it

[HarryW]

Do you really consider yourself to be a near-advanced programmer after 10 months? I would have thought that it would take quite a lot longer to really get to an advanced stage with VB. Oh, unless you mean advanced like Escaflowne is defining it, in which case I think that could be a reasonable timeframe. Especially if you spend 4 hours a day on it (don't you do anything else?)

Logic is indeed a key skill in programming. I have heard of employers looking out for philosophy degrees and the like. Depending on the field you go into, though, different kinds of maths are also very important. Large database apps may require knowledge of statistical techniques for example, and a simulation program will require knowledge of geometry, mechanics and calculus. Also, nowadays, with teamwork being the norm, communication skills are increasingly valuable. Well anyway I suppose that's a seperate topic

OOps...

Messed up. I'll remove the second one.

Dimava...

Sorry about messing up yours. I forgot the closing [/code] tag, which highlighted your paragraph...sorry.

[/quote]

I have always viewed an advanced programmer (in any language) as someone who is pushing the limits of what the language can do. I don't think that there is any single defining point for "advanced". Probably when you're happy using the API (actually, when you're using the API all tyhe time instead of built in calls cos the API is faster), and when you're able to write subclassing stuff, and use the undoced calls like VarPtr and ObjPtr.

I guess the rule of thumb is that if MS say you can't do it in VB, and you find a way to do it in VB, then you're probably good enough to call yourself an advanced vb programmer.

- gaffa

[V(ery) Basic]

Originally posted by dimava
I've been working with vb for 10 months, and I would comsider my self to be a Intermediate / getting to advanced programmer

Hihi.

That's a good one

[dimava]

that wasn't inteended to be a joke, I just spend a lot of time on it, and "exploring" vb. I learn a lot everyday

and a person who spends 1 hour 5 days a week for 5 years on vb would not know as much as someone who spends 4 hours a day 7 days a week for 10 months

[V(ery) Basic]

If you work it out with a calculator, the former guy actually spends around 100 more hours on VB.

Just to let you know.

[BruceG]

For a sobering look at what employers are looking for, take a look at sites like http://www.computerjobs.com