Dennis Wrenn............

[dimava]

I'm just wondering, since when and why did we start hating eachother to death?

I dunno,
your just a little stupid "cracker"
the kind who pirates software, brags about it, and likes to to damage to computers..
I hate people like that.

[Zaphod64831]

SHUT UP! WHAT DO YOU KNOW!?

;-) jk, actually I agree, it's started to get a little violent around here. Not that I've been here much lately but when I do drop by there seems to be a lot of hatred. Not that that's ALL there is, but there's more than there should be.

[dimava]

have I ever pirated your software? NO
have I ever damaged your computer? NO
Did I ever brag about Pirating software? NO
Have I ever cracked any of the software that you made? NO
So you hate me becuase I'm too poor to buy the billion dollar VB and the billion dollar Photoshop and the Billion dollar Macromedia Flash?

and I'm sure that you have got something illigally once or twice, but then again I dont want to start the billion thread argument over details again.

I don't mind people pirating software, just don't tell anybody about it!!!

I didn't buy photoshop.....
<ahem> but I am planning to get a legal copy of it.

I have ver. 5, soon I want to get ver. 5.5 and legally..

I also want to get a legal copy of paint shop pro....


and its not that you pirated or cracked MY SOFTWARE, I would be pissed if you did,
but I don't mind people pirating expensive software, like I said, just keep it to yourself.. if you don't tell people about it, there is less of a chance of getting cought!

and the thing about damaging computers, I don't think you should do that period!

[kb244]

erm come on ease up guess, he's just trying to bug ya (and it's working)

yeah, I guess so...

[Wonder Woman]

What happen to your master post on him being Nitro? I searched for it! Nothing appears. Do you hate me or Dimava more? 100% female. Dimava can't give you what I can.

[HarryW]

If he had herpes at his age I'd be surprised

Ok... I beleive you now...
dimava is 100% woman

[dimava]

1. I'm not trying to bug you dennis, I'm just wondering
2. Im 100% Male
3. WW: what do you mean you can't give me what you can
4. HarryW: I dont have herpes
5. I am not nitro
6. Im 100% Male

[HarryW]

Err.. I think this kinda went over your heads a little - 'Dimava can't give you what I can', 'I'd be surprised if he had herpes at his age'. Link the two comments?

(hope that doesn't sound too patronising)

[dimava]

Ok, I see what you mean

[Joker]

Wonder Woman,
Is he really Nitro? Yes, I finally knows who he is.


Thank you Dennis! Someone who final able to take down Batman. You are going down in history Dennis.

No, he's not Nitro.....
I don't know, or want to know who he is, but I am pretty sure he isn't nitro.

[Joker]

Last week you said he is, this week you said he is not. What plan are you guys playing? What the heck happen to all of his postings?

[SteveCRM]

Well i got an *authentic* copy of a *Real* microsoft frontpage today...but we don't need to discuss that now...I would be glad if Dimava cracked into my software...I'd be proud that my software was good enough to be cracked into!

[SteveCRM]

I think I remember when!!!!!!!!!! It was about 12 midnight...We were posting and they started to argue a little on whose answer was shorter and better. Then they went all out in a post I made for them (Im such a nice guy)...It was going so fast...each timestamp was 1 minute after each other...that was great...

I can see Dennis's point here dimava, software piracy accounts for a percentage of costs that normal users pay for a software package, that pisses me off no end.

If you caren't afford a software package then bad luck, get a loan, get a job, whatever and save for it.

Dennis

Yeap everyone at some stage has loaded a package from work, a mates place, whatever. And like you they then buy the next version.

Dennis and dimava

Now shake hands, say your sorry to each other, and be friends....else l will send you both to your rooms without dinner. And don't think you can sit in there playing with your computers either.

Any more and both of you will be sent to military school.

[Bjwbell]

Whats so bad about military school?

[kedaman]

Military school (at least in Finland) is the worst thing they come up with since homo sapiens

[HarryW]

I know a guy from Norway who did his national service in the Coastguard - what a copout!

Jethro - the view that piracy raises the price of software is a pretty dodgy one. That's one of the excuses the software companies use for charging higher prices. I think this is slightly misguided though, as it is assuming that those people who use pirated copies of software would pay for the software if they couldn't get it illegally. I for one know I wouldn't buy 90% of the stuff I use. Plus, why 'get a job' doing something menial which pays really badly, taking you ages to afford a software development package and then learning the skills to get a better job, when you can take a shortcut - use a pirated copy to learn with and when you have the skills to get a better job, then buy an original copy for commercial purposes.

I'm not saying that it's perfectly alright, I think it is a bit of a liberty to take to steal someone's software for a while, but I don't think it hurts the developers.

yeah,
as long as you pay for it eventually, I think thats Ok...

It costs millions to development software....ok....in most countries you can claim the R&D costs off the tax office, (here in Oz our much beloved facist government reduced the total deduction from 150% to 100%)....but the fact remains that you are using working capital to develop. Now every time you sell a single unit you are recouping the development cost with the plan being to enter profitability on the package within the first year, which allows further money for the next version etc etc.

In Oz our local computer society (A.C.S) has estimated that over 40% of currently used copies of MS Word are pirated, now a few of the people doing this could claim the lack of funds etc as an arguement...but not all. This is costing MS money left and right, and reducing the corporation ability to fund development and lower over-all unit costs. This is a fact of business.

Having recently completed an audit of software/hardware for a fortune 100 organistion l can tell you that the amount of pirated software existing in a that major corporation was staggering....(they have put in place checks and balances to stop this of course).

Ok if you want free software then get your company to become an MS development partner.....you are then allowed to load a package to your work computer and to your home computer, the understanding being that you can not use them both at once.

For all others, bad luck it's the law, check out the used computer organisations where you live and you should be able to purchase a previous version of the package you want to get your grubby hands on, or get a student card and purchase that way.

Harry

If you don't want to earn it that's your problem. Ok another example, you may want to purchase a car, but caren't afford one does your arguement then allow for stealing one rather than earning the purchase price. Pretty lame example l know.

All

That is a current market for Koori art rip offs which the governments trying to crack, (no pun intended), down on. The same arguement you are using applies. Gee l caren't afford an original so will get a rip off. This only leads to an increase in the underlining problem...money which should be going to koori communities being funnelled off to criminials cashing in on their designs.

[HarryW]

Yes I understand what you said and I sor tof covered it in my previous post - it is not costing the developers money, or at least only the interest on the money they don't have from pirated copies. You have to consider whether people who are using pirated copies of software would have bought it if they couldn't get a pirated copy. How many people have got a pirated copy of MS Office? Out of that number, who would actually go out and buy Office if they couldn't get it pirated?

The main problem area as far as I can see is where people are using pirated software for commercial purposes, and I think that's really not on.

You're right, the car is example is pretty lame. A car is a material good, it cannot be copied for the price of a blank CD or an internet connection, and the original is gone when it's stolen.

I don't claim lack of funds necessarily, but most of the software out there is just not worth what is asked for it. Take MS Word for example - how much do you think the development cost per unit sold is? I'd bet it's pretty close to nothing. Maybe a few dollars, I'd be surprised if it was that much. This is acknowledged, and the justification is that the money is for support costs. What do you think the sum cost of the support the average user gets is? I would again bet that's no more than a few dollars. The develpoment costs for a large-scale industry-standard package like that are covered many times over within the first year I'm sure.

I can see that we will have to agree to disagree on this. In time perhaps it will be stamped out but it seems unlikely to happen soon, and I can't say I'm sorry about that.

If you take development costs as a percentage of a packages retail price, then for something like MS Office it's pretty low probably under $5. But that is a market share issue. For a lot of companies, my own included, a certain percentage is worked in due to losses through piracy, each unit must necessarily have a higher cost because the total expected sales are a factor in distribution of R & D costs. We have already discovered a few pirated versions of our software in use by commercial concerns, (these guys are dum even asking for support). As such we have had to introduce licensing and security to the packages(s) with associated costs in development, testing, beta testing, and documentation.

For existing clients we have a lite version which they can load to their home PCs, some of their kids use it for geography studies etc. This is fine with us, as we only expect to sell two to three copies per client.

A better example would be say a Stephen King novel. King gets paid x amount in advances based on the publishers perceieved sales quantity. If, as happens in software piracy, readers make copies of the novel, then the next time King is up for an advance then the advance will be lower because of this type of "piracy".

I would agree that MS Office would have to be one of the most pirated products available...however....if you caren't afford it or don't want to pay the listed price then go and get one of the alternatives. Plenty available over the net, in public domain etc.

I am sick and tired of the arguement, Oh it's too expensive..l will pay for it later et al. There are numerous options available to by pass this. Remember software piracy is a criminial activity, and does have an effect on the quality of product being produced.....hmmm....mind you so does the issue of having to compete with MS head on, as our desk top application guys are finding out.

[HarryW]

The kind of piracy that I condone - piracy for personal non-commercial use which you wouldn't buy otherwise - I don't think that it does have an adverse affect on the quality of the product. The only way this particular kind of piracy can have an adverse affect is if the developers then have to take anti-piracy measures, but this would more likely be aimed at other pirates.

Yes it's a criminal activity. So is taking drugs and walking in the middle of the road and parking on double yellows and cycling on the pavement, but how many people do it anyway? And do you really think those people are having a significant negative affect on our civilisation for it? Perhaps the drug users would be a little controversial in that equation.

How many of you have ever recorded a song from the radio? Or copied an audio cassette tape? Or had sex under the legal age of consent? Or smoked cigarettes befoer the law says you can? Or bought alcohol underage? Legally these things are not allowed, but the society we live in does not follow the letter of the law as closely as Big Brother would like. Simply saying that it's against the law is not enough for most people, me included. If there was a death penalty for software pirates then I'd certainly steer well clear of it but there isn't because it's generally a petty crime, the perpetrators are not actually causing any harm most of the time.

I sympathise with your company and its customers, Jethro, for having to raise unit cost to cover lost sales, and the kind of piracy that causes that I do not condone.

Good Grief...

Really, piracy is bad. HarryW, you shouldn't post it.

Whoever said about PRICE of DEVELOPMENT is high, I got my entire suite of VB, licensed by Microsoft themselves, at no charge...

It's legal because they gave it to me...

so, haha, I am a money saver, and I use a microsoft licensed legal copy of VB! Hahaha!