Developments from Microsoft?

**mendhak** · Oct 30th, 2002, 02:22 AM

I've basically heard words being floated about, without being sure exactly what it was.

"Palladium"
"Longhorn"
"Whistler"

Someone please explain these, and feel free to throw in any other new developments coming out from MS that we should know about...

**Pc_Madness** · Oct 30th, 2002, 03:04 AM

LongHorn and Whistler are the OS's... I think LongHorn is the latest and the Whistler is XP Home/Pro.

Palladium is something for computer security I think... it involves adding this super chip to the processor, so that it can do encryption stuff... apparently theres a bad side to it... but I can't remember what it is.

Microsoft is bosing around Intel and AMD over it, as there needs to be a chup redesign or something...

**BodwadUK** · Oct 30th, 2002, 03:30 AM

Palladium is said to increase security, it merely blocks existing paths of attack but opens other ones!!! I have also heard that the data on your pc could be easily accessed by somebody who can use the chip eg MICROSOFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Security from others but at what cost???????????????

Palladium also blocks pirated software as companies will have to have a type of license and code for their program to be accepted on the machine (not controlled by windows), although it can be disabled the chip will block anything that is not encoded preventing people from distributing freeware unless they pay for a license hmmm no guesses for who benefits in profits and ownership here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because the chip is controlled not by windows it could also see other operating systems being blocked and with many of the population only just knowing what a mouse for a pc is we can garantee many will not disable the chip!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL the information i give here is based mainly on rumour it maybe false so please dont take it for a knowledge database cause it aint and i cant be blamed for any misrepresentation of any companies in the statement above

Better Cover My ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**GingerNut** · Oct 30th, 2002, 04:00 AM

So, what about us sad little programmers who just like to mess about in our spare time. What way will our programmes be effected?

**mendhak** · Oct 30th, 2002, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by BodwadUK
Palladium is said to increase security, it merely blocks existing paths of attack but opens other ones!!! I have also heard that the data on your pc could be easily accessed by somebody who can use the chip eg MICROSOFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Security from others but at what cost???????????????

Palladium also blocks pirated software as companies will have to have a type of license and code for their program to be accepted on the machine (not controlled by windows), although it can be disabled the chip will block anything that is not encoded preventing people from distributing freeware unless they pay for a license hmmm no guesses for who benefits in profits and ownership here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because the chip is controlled not by windows it could also see other operating systems being blocked and with many of the population only just knowing what a mouse for a pc is we can garantee many will not disable the chip!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL the information i give here is based mainly on rumour it maybe false so please dont take it for a knowledge database cause it aint and i cant be blamed for any misrepresentation of any companies in the statement above

Better Cover My ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You make it sound like the advent of an Armageddon. These new 'plans' usually come out with everyone in mind... perhaps a little bit of reading on this is in order.

//me waits for hyperlink to magically appear from someone browsing this forum...

**DiGiTaIErRoR** · Oct 30th, 2002, 10:34 AM

Before any program would be allowed to run you'd have to verifiy it with a central server.

The goal would be to have all your computer's content under DRM(digital rights management). Whereas, before you get the rights to do anything on your computer, a server would verify that you actually have such rights.

From hardware changes to applications YOU write. Under their plan you wouldn't be able to run programs you write yourself. You wouldn't be able to run any program that they think you shouldn't.

The only real marketable, and applicable, place for such things would be a business environment. So imagine going into work one day and you can't run Netscape, because Microsoft won't sell them a license to their system.

Imagine PC's being able to have a data format that would be nearly impossible to convert to other systems without them running compliant software.

It's like prison for your computer.

**GingerNut** · Oct 30th, 2002, 12:39 PM

Is there anyway round it? I heard that if you didn't have the chip you couldn't connect with other computers using the chip or use the internet? Is that true or just more rumors?

**JoshT** · Oct 30th, 2002, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by GingerNut
Is there anyway round it? I heard that if you didn't have the chip you couldn't connect with other computers using the chip or use the internet? Is that true or just more rumors?

The Internet works fine now - independent of any specific software or CPU.

**mendhak** · Oct 30th, 2002, 01:37 PM

If that's true, then a way 'around' would be not to purchase those products, plain and simple. The fact that the majority of the consumer base continues to use the then 'old' hardware will allow for the 'old' software companies to thrive on.

That's how I see it. What about Palladium is Microsoft's selling point? How will they convince (or control

) us?

**parksie** · Oct 30th, 2002, 01:42 PM

Problem with Palladium is that it'll divide the Internet.

On one side, there'll be the "free" computers, and on the other, Palladium computers.

The phrase "total war" springs to mind, and I don't think MS are going to win.

**GingerNut** · Oct 30th, 2002, 03:22 PM

But if all the new computers will have this chip built in what choice do we have?

**JPicasso** · Oct 30th, 2002, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by GingerNut
But if all the new computers will have this chip built in what choice do we have?

Soon, we will all have a one-button mouse.

**GingerNut** · Oct 30th, 2002, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by JPicasso
Soon, we will all have a one-button mouse.

I was using someone elses computer today and they didn't have a scrolly thing on their mouse. It bugged the hell out of me. I had to scroll down pages the old way.

**msimmons** · Oct 30th, 2002, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by GingerNut
But if all the new computers will have this chip built in what choice do we have?

Don't get the new ones... I'm sure there will be a market (even if illegal) for the "non-BigBrother" chip, therfore someone will build them.

Originally posted by GingerNut
I was using someone elses computer today and they didn't have a scrolly thing on their mouse. It bugged the hell out of me. I had to scroll down pages the old way.

I use a non-scroller at work and i 'rub' on it constantly to scroll.,, lol

**GingerNut** · Oct 30th, 2002, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by msimmons
I use a non-scroller at work and i 'rub' on it constantly to scroll.,, lol

That's what I was doing. Couldn't understand why the page wouldn't scroll til I looked down at the mouse.

Is Microsoft definitely going ahead with this chip then?
How would it work? Say the chip knows to look for certain things, but then new software comes out. Even though the new software would be properly licenced how would the chip know? If the computer is online then fine, but what if there is no internet connection?

**mepaco** · Oct 30th, 2002, 05:16 PM

Check out the two articles I posted in this thread. It will have a lot of answers to the questions I'm seeing here.

Palladium Thread

**The Hobo** · Oct 30th, 2002, 10:24 PM

I hate life.

**Pc_Madness** · Oct 30th, 2002, 11:35 PM

Pfft..

Didn't someone say that the chip could be turned off?

And...the splitting of the net thing could happen, simply because of novice computer buyers....

**mendhak** · Oct 30th, 2002, 11:40 PM

That is true, PCM.

But a little searching yesterday got me this

Conspiracy Theory
If Palladium delivers on its promise, it could be a very powerful security feature; and it would be easy enough to use so that the average user could take advantage of its capabilities.

But many security experts are skeptical as to Microsoft's true intentions behind the development of Palladium. While it may enable users to utilize strong security technologies, it could also be used by vendors to tightly "bind" customers to their product line in the future.

Dr. Ross Anderson, leader of the Computer Security Group at Cambridge University, says: "The real threat of TCPA/Palladium is an economic one. In information goods and services markets, the value of a customer is often their total switching cost. Palladium offers the prospect of pushing up these switching costs dramatically. For example, if Word were ever to be seriously threatened by Staroffice, and everyone were using TCPA/Palladium PCs, then Microsoft could roll out a policy change to the effect that Word documents would be sealed using keys that would be accessible to 'good' applications such as Excel, but not to 'bad' applications such as Star[office]."

It is important to note that this is not strictly a Microsoft issue. Palladium is really just Microsoft's implementation of specifications developed by a larger body called the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance (TCPA). Founded by IBM, Compaq, HP, Intel, and of course Microsoft, the TCPA contains over 180 member companies including others like Novell, AMD, Adobe, Dell, Motorola, and Tripwire.

In the same way that Microsoft could lock down Word documents to "trusted" applications, HP could just as easily force its printers to output low resolution documents if a genuine HP color cartridge was not used in the printer. This would certainly make some customers angry, but when you consider that HP makes its "printer" money on accessories, losing a customer who isn't purchasing their brand of cartridges is not really losing that much.

Echoing Anderson's sentiments, Bruce Schneier opined "this [Palladium] has nothing to do with security; it has everything to do with protectionism."

These 180 companies are not all developing this project from a core of Evil Conspiracy; I'm sure that many have the best interests of their customers at heart. Microsoft's Mario Juarez believes in the project, and I think the excitement in his voice when he speaks of it is genuine. There are certainly lots of good things that could come out of a system like this.

But even if only the best of intentions go into the development of Palladium today, we have no idea what future management at Microsoft may choose to do with it tomorrow. And that is what we have to watch.

From: http://online.securityfocus.com/columnists/93

A good question raised is, "What technology hasn't been abused?"

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