Is MP3 illegal?

**sbasak** · Sep 4th, 2002, 04:57 AM

Are MP3 CDs illegal for sale in some countries? Is it that they are legal in some countries and illegal in some other countires?

And why are they illegal at all?

**si_the_geek** · Sep 4th, 2002, 06:34 AM

MP3's are not illegal, MP3 CD's are not illegal.

MP3's or MP3 CD's that contain copyrighted material ARE illegal (for distribution at least - most countries are OK if it is for personal use only).

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 4th, 2002, 07:56 AM

I can't remember the last time I listened to an MP3 that wasn't illegal.

When you think about it though, were digging our own graves by downloading them..

Eventually they'll stop making the music...

**kleptos** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:00 AM

If they stop making music, they wont get ANY money, at least now they get money from those who dont have computers or want the cd's. Personally music as of late sucks, and isnt worth buying anyways.

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:03 AM

Mate... I read in the paper somewhere that said in Europe, about 80 million Music cd's were sold, while the same number of CD-R's were also sold.

The music industry won't just let this keep on happening...apparently Microsoft is going to do something about it on Media Player.. 8?? 9?? What are we up 2?

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:04 AM

if you do the math, if we average out the prices to say about $15 per cd, X that by 80million. Thats alot of money there missing out on.

People don't work if they don't get paid.

**sbasak** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:29 AM

I don't understand why so much people are against MP3? I think it's music industry's business tactics to make people fool by saying MP3 is illegal. The main point is that, since there are so many songs that would fit in an MP3 CD, the music artists fear that price of music CDs will get drastically lower, so their profit will be less. That's the single reason why they cry foul over MP3 or similar format!

And you say of copying? Well, any normal music CD can also be copied very easily. So, what's the problem with MP3 only?

**kleptos** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:38 AM

I look at it like this, i wouldnt have paid for the CD anyways, so they arent really loosing my money. They never had it.

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:42 AM

lol, interesting theory....

Are you talking about 5 finger discounts kleptos?

**msimmons** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:46 AM

What about blank cassette tapes? People have been 'ripping' albums to them before CD's were even heard of, this is nothing new.
Michael

**kleptos** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:46 AM

Not at all, i am refering to MP3's and the music industry, its similar to software piracy. If i dont buy the cd, but d/l it, they arent loosing anything, because i wouldnt have bought the cd either way, so no money is lost. Thats just my opinion. I buy the cd's from the bands i like and i know they arent gonna fold from MP3's, they post their own MP3's on their site. So no harm done. But by people saying they loose all this money, they have to think, without MP3's, would all these cd's have been sold anyways?

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by kleptos
....they have to think, without MP3's, would all these cd's have been sold anyways?

Thats not a very good way of thinking of it...Without MP3's, they would still be making money, and we would still be getting decent songs/costumes/video clips, etc. Now they have to waste their money on trying to beat CD Pirates... trust me, they aren't made of money.. and what will the world be like without music? Your little sister, who can't sing for crap, could become a pop princess.

What about blank cassette tapes? People have been 'ripping' albums to them before CD's were even heard of, this is nothing new.
Michael

Cassettes are terrible quality, although I'm pretty sure the Music Industry would'n't have been to happy about those either.

The problem with Mp3's is that there such great quality, and realively small to download.. about 1min = 1mb..

And with Wma, its 1min = 0.5mb

Anyways, I'm off to bed, we'll continue this debate another day

**kleptos** · Sep 4th, 2002, 09:07 AM

If they wanna stop making music, thats fine, then what are the musicians gonna do? Work at some fast food place making minimum wage? Go for it.... I can make my own music with my cmputer, i dont NEED them. I dont mind them, but i dont really NEED them.

**Zaei** · Sep 4th, 2002, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by kleptos
If they wanna stop making music, thats fine, then what are the musicians gonna do? Work at some fast food place making minimum wage? Go for it.... I can make my own music with my cmputer, i dont NEED them. I dont mind them, but i dont really NEED them.

I have to agree. We could rip them off so bad, and they couldnt stop making the music. You dont get paid if you dont work.

Besides, 80 million CD-Rs does NOT mean that all of them went to music CDs, or MP3 CDs. There are a LOT of uses for CD-Rs besides stealing stuff.

Though, if you want to get technical, using an MP3 decoder in a commercial project without a license IS illegal.

Z.

**sbasak** · Sep 4th, 2002, 09:26 AM

Why not music companies themselves sell MP3 CDs?
Though they might make some less profit, but then everyone should be happy.

Law is an imperfect system to provide practical solution to many difficult problems!

Branding something as illegal because somebody can't make high profit is itself ILLEGAL.

So, while they say losing money on MP3, music artists are actually pulling consumers legs!

I like MP3 CDs because while on holiday, I can take all my favorite music albums on only 1 or 2 CDs!

By the way, when music industry releases their CDs, they already assume at least some illegal copies will be made from them and they price the CD including that amount (this is true, believe me).

If music industry claims that they will have to stop making music because of MP3, then I think they should stop it!

**AirScape17** · Sep 4th, 2002, 09:40 AM

Aren't MP3's at 128kbps or less legal to download?? Isn't that why Kazaa hasn't been shutdown already??

Anyway, isn't it the small-time artists that are REALLY loosing money from MP3's??

**sbasak** · Sep 4th, 2002, 10:06 AM

The artists should get paid for their quality of work. Not for the format in which people listen their creation!

**kleptos** · Sep 4th, 2002, 10:36 AM

Most music today is stolen from older songs anyways, i bet the new artists arent paying for the crap they stole.

**markman** · Sep 4th, 2002, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Pc_Madness
I can't remember the last time I listened to an MP3 that wasn't illegal.

Is djkeda's stuff copyrighted?

**Zaei** · Sep 4th, 2002, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by AirScape17
Aren't MP3's at 128kbps or less legal to download?? Isn't that why Kazaa hasn't been shutdown already??

This doesnt make sense... And besides, if you couldnt download >= 128k off Kazaa, hardly anyone would use it.

Z.

**chrisjk** · Sep 4th, 2002, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by AirScape17
Aren't MP3's at 128kbps or less legal to download?? Isn't that why Kazaa hasn't been shutdown already??

urm, no. Kazaa has not been shut down because it cannot be shutdown. There are no central servers, it is purely peer to peer. When you download something you are directly connected to the computer of the person you are downloading from.

**Muddy** · Sep 4th, 2002, 08:17 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,61178,00.html

**siyan** · Sep 4th, 2002, 09:02 PM

if the ****** record companies would stop taking like 99% of the profits and give more money to artists, then it'd be good. They shoudl give at least half, I mean the artists ARE the source of the music

Then they could charge less, resulting in more sales and happier artists.

Of course, since they stand to take a lower cut of the profits, they wouldn't ever do it

If compaq sells a computer (unlikely

), they don't exactly make a 50% profit margin ....

-C

**chrisjk** · Sep 4th, 2002, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by siyan
If compaq sells a computer (unlikely ), they don't exactly make a 50% profit margin ....

world's largest, they must make the odd sale here and there

Compaq's margin is probably at a guess 7-10%. Smaller PC manfs. have to make do with more like 2-3% since they can't buy in enough bulk components. A company I know of on about 2% margin went bust few years back...cut throat business.

But, I digress

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 5th, 2002, 01:31 AM

Down under they've just releases these machines which can make an exact copy of a music cd... or they have a list of songs that you can choose from. At the moment, there perfectly legal as far as I can tell...

**MidgetsBro** · Sep 5th, 2002, 01:45 AM

MP3 is the only, and I repeat, ONLY reason I have ever bought a CD. The only music albums I have ever bought were Metallica albums. I bought every Metallica album out as of today, and the only reason was because I downloaded some of their stuff from Napster. If I didn't, then I would have never bought a CD. The last time I purchased a CD, it was Metallica's S&M and it was at least 2 years ago. Nothing else out there is worth the $15. I think that MP3 is the future... I like music, but it's not worth paying for.

**sbasak** · Sep 5th, 2002, 03:25 AM

Wow, so many replies.........

Anyway, my original question was
if MP3 is legal and so popular, why don't music shops sell MP3 CDs in the open market?

In some countries (like India and neighboring countries) it is very easy to buy MP3 CDs from open market. But in Europe (at least in UK/Ireland) I couldn't find any shop which sells MP3 CDs (Though shops are selling MP3 CD players). I don't know anything about rest of the world.

Any comment?

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 5th, 2002, 03:31 AM

Mp3's are illegal.. if they contain copyrighted stuff. So if a business started selling cd's with mp3's, they would get charged with... what? Copyright breaches, theft, ... what else??

Don't confuse MP3's with the player, by the way.......

**sbasak** · Sep 5th, 2002, 03:38 AM

That's the point I'm trying to mention. In some places Music Companies themselves selling copyrighted album in MP3 format, so that they can bring the price down per CD (same price but more songs) and thus enable more and more people buy their products and thus higher profit. If prices of CDs come down, no body will bother to copy them anymore! So, both consumers and industry will get benefit.

**si_the_geek** · Sep 5th, 2002, 03:41 AM

The idea of MP3 CD players is that you can create your own CD's from your collection - not get them from your friends etc.

The countries you say sell MP3 CD's would most likely be illegal (just like the software CD's you can buy in the region).

If the companies that originally sold the music made their own MP3 CD's that would be fine, but because there is a lack of people with the players they wouldn't get as much profit.

**Pc_Madness** · Sep 5th, 2002, 03:42 AM

Well.. are you sure thats the company doing that?? More likely its someone pretending to be them.

**sbasak** · Sep 5th, 2002, 04:23 AM

In India, music systems (which can play normal CD, MP3, Video CD and audio cassettes as well) are available for £40-£80 (or $60-$120). People there nowadays don't buy a music system which can't play MP3 CDs!

For local brands I'm quite sure that they themselves sell their music in MP3 format. However, I'm unsure whether the international brands they sell CDs in MP3 format is genuine or not. The packaging is at least so impressive it appears that they are genuine! And cost is so low that people tend to buy them easily (imagine paying £2 (or $3) for over 200 songs track)! The shops there even offer exchange facility if you found your CD faulty!

Because of socio-economy structure in most Asian countries, I think MP3 CDs will continue to sell there at least (whether it is legal or illegal) and will do brisk business in future as well.

**kleptos** · Sep 5th, 2002, 08:33 AM

From the way i look at it, if i buy the cd, i can make my own MP3's, thats legal, if i share them or let others copy them, that would be illegal. I purchased the damn cd for the 15 bux, i will do with it what i please, and if i wanna copy it for my car or make MP3's, then thats what im gonna do. Its like a car, if i buy it, i can do to it what i want... This is my opinion however, and does not express the views of anyone else....

**Evil_Giraffe** · Sep 9th, 2002, 05:43 AM

I read about a law that's trying to be introduced in (i think) America that will not only make "space-shifting" (creating a copy of the album for personal use in different format e.g. CD to tape, CD to mp3 ...) illegal, but also "time-shifting" (e.g. when you record something off the TV to watch later in the week). Scary times indeed when the laws are being pushed by the entertainment giants rather than consumer practice.

**kleptos** · Sep 9th, 2002, 11:12 AM

They cant stop it, there is no way to stop MP3's, no way to stop anyone from recording DVD's or VHS or TV. There is no way to stop any of it. Even a law put in place wont stop anyone.

**-_MAD-HATTAH_-** · Sep 17th, 2002, 04:48 PM

In my eyes, most people dont really do it for the fans/fun...Think about it. If you were an artist/band would you continue your hard work for nothing? Of course it makes people happy and all but the artist isnt really getting much from it. How would they live? Burger King? McDonalds? I think if enough people continue to download the music less cd's will be sold. Therefore the music industry will lose heaps of money. Hence: they won't be able to sign artists.

-Just a guess

**MidgetsBro** · Sep 17th, 2002, 06:09 PM

I rather hand an artist $20 for a CD than pay $10 to a record company that will pay the artist about 1/100th of the profit. It's the record companies that are making it not worth buying a CD. They are greedy bastards. If we got rid of record companies and more artists released their albums on their own (It doesn't cost that much to have a simple album created without a record contract, and if the artist is good, then they will regain their original losses in the first place, and most likely start making a hefty profit) then people would be more willing to pay for CDs because the artists are sure to charge less since the record companies are the ones that take all the profits...

That ramble made no sense... sorry for anyone that read it.

In conclusion, f*** terrorists.

Thank you and goodnight.

**JoshT** · Sep 17th, 2002, 08:04 PM

OK, suppose I become a musician and want to record an album. Assuming I can write and sing all the songs myself, how much would it cost me to produce a real CD and distribute enough copies to make enough to earn a living?

**nabeels786** · Sep 17th, 2002, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by MidgetsBro
MP3 is the only, and I repeat, ONLY reason I have ever bought a CD. The only music albums I have ever bought were Metallica albums. I bought every Metallica album out as of today, and the only reason was because I downloaded some of their stuff from Napster. If I didn't, then I would have never bought a CD. The last time I purchased a CD, it was Metallica's S&M and it was at least 2 years ago. Nothing else out there is worth the $15. I think that MP3 is the future... I like music, but it's not worth paying for.

same exact thign here.
except, i bought they albums before mp3

most bands make most of their money off of touring. so i dont buy cds, i support them and not the record companies by seeing them live

**DiGiTaIErRoR** · Sep 18th, 2002, 01:54 AM

In theory you could make a low enough quality copy that fair-use would apply. The level of the quality would be for the courts to decide.

If people could buy CD's for a reasonable price then more people would be happy to buy them.

It's simply, they pay a few cents for each cd, slap another few cents of ink on it, add another few cents for the jewel case and jackets. That maybe costs at most 25 cents/CD. Then charge $15.

That's 99.93% profit/cd. They're just greedy. They're getting what's coming to them.

And any established band could easily make a website and sell their music directly to the consumer for $5-10 a cd, and make tons of money.

It's the recording industry that needs to be reformed, not society. We're being ripped off and we're not gonna take it anymore!

Like movies, they cost $8-12 to goto the 'prime-time' show.

Insanity!

And if you say $40 million isn't enough for the actors then you're insane.

America is about capitalism. Which sadly these companies turn into greed.

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