Nice to know your 'friends' ...

[Wally Pipp]

ICC : International Criminal court. Specially designed Court of law where people can be charged with crimes against humanity if and only if the country of origin neglects to do so.

So the ICC begins its work, the US is opposed because they fear a stream of accusations against US nationals. Sound fear. And somehow a sound reason not to accept the ICC.

But threathening EU-friends (in this case the Netherlands because the ICC will be based at The Hague. Imagine if the headquarters would be based in London ... ) with armed conflict and adopting a legal framework to do so when they should hold a US national prisoner arrested is just plain wrong.
You're not winning any friends over here Mr. Bush.

I knew you were a moron but such a moron, that I never expected ....

[GlenW]

Am I wrong in wanting it to happen, so we can see what our 'Great Leaders' will do.

Would we back down, or would the US?

[GlenW]

Actually who's side would the UK be on?

[Wally Pipp]

Is it just me or does this sound very much like playground bullies ?

[GlenW]

Thats what international diplomacy is, isn't it?

[Flustor]

You're totally right Wal, the Yanks are behaving in a more bullying way than ever before. Mind you, Tony Blair is totally trying to back out of joining in a war against Iraq.

[Wally Pipp]

Unless they changed the rules I thought it went like this :

If country = "Non ally" then
   ThreathenWithTalksAndWeaponry(country, home)
Else
   TalkItOverAndCompromiseWithEconomicPromises(Country, home)
End if

[GlenW]

WeGotProb:
 
If country = "Non ally" then
   ThreathenWithTalksAndWeaponry(country, home)
Else
   TalkItOverAndCompromiseWithEconomicPromises(Country, home)
    If Result = Not True Then
        country = "non ally"
        GoTo WeGotProb
    EndIf 
End if

[Wally Pipp]

If result = Not True ...

False then

[GlenW]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp

If result = Not True ...

False then

If result = "We didn't get our own way so we are not happy"

Takes longer to type

[Jack Daniels]

I'm pissed off with how america's acting, but even more so with how johnny is following and looking up to bush.

I don't want Australia to turn out like america :O

[Wally Pipp]

Look, I can understand if it were Iraq or something but this is Holland, a long standing member of the EU and the NATO.
I know Bush is not in the game for making friends but if he isn't then why the NATO, why call us 'our overseas friends', why ask us if we want to join an invasion of Iraq ?
This 'do it our way or no way at all' is getting too grotesque.
It's time the Eu's 'great leaders' stopped kissing each other's and the US's arse and stand up for themselves like they're supposed to do.
Not too much to ask, is it ?

[GlenW]

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
I don't want Australia to turn out like america :O

Won't happen, you lot can laugh at yourselves, if somebody pisses you off you'll just stick your v's up and have another beer.

[GlenW]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Look, I can understand if it were Iraq or something but this is Holland, a long standing member of the EU and the NATO.
I know Bush is not in the game for making friends but if he isn't then why the NATO, why call us 'our overseas friends', why ask us if we want to join an invasion of Iraq ?
This 'do it our way or no way at all' is getting too grotesque.
It's time the Eu's 'great leaders' stopped kissing each other's and the US's arse and stand up for themselves like they're supposed to do.
Not too much to ask, is it ?

Wally I'd love to argue with you, but I actually agree with everything you're saying.
This could be the Eu's chance to let the US know we're not going to be bullied by them.

[Jack Daniels]

of course :-) roll calls at the pub @ some military establishments.

[Wally Pipp]

The Aussies answer to every problem : "Oi shut it mate, buy us a beer or get out !"

Glen, they haven't got the balls ...

[GlenW]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Glen, they haven't got the balls ...

Hope you're wrong, 'cos if the US do push us this far and get away with it, we're in deep ****. They'll just go further and further until we become a sort of colony.
The rest of the world has decided to do something, if the US don't like thats ok, but they can't, or shouldn't be allowed, to interfere.
If a US citizen was convicted in the UK under UK law the US wouldn't interfere, so an international court should have more power than a UK court not less.

[Jack Daniels]

I'm sure that if the US step too far outta line (which is highly likely)

that china will seize the opportunity or a like country, to squish em like da bugs they are !

[Wally Pipp]

My point exaxtly.

In a way, we're almost the 51st state already ...

[simonm]

Firstly, just let me say that I agree with you Wally, America are out of line.

However, let me be the devil's advocate and point out that America feels they are in a unique position in that their citizens will be particularly vulnerable to politically motivated accusations.

[Wally Pipp]

I don't deny their position because it is true but what bugs me here is that this time it's a friendly nation, a NATO member and a UN long standing member. Furthermore, the Netherlands are no thread to the US whatsoever. They are even pro-US.
This act is solely to prevent any nations to file 'libellous' law suits.

On the other hand, to file a law suit with the ICC means that you will need some strong evidence to back up your claim and presumably, unless you have done some crime against humanity and if your country of origin is not pressing charges, then and only then a law suit may be filed. Not everyone can file claims as they see fit.

There are many other ways of saying 'we don't agree'.
If someone commits a crime on another countries' soil then surely he must be trialled there and according to their law.
Camp X-ray rings any bells ?

[simonm]

Wally

I don't deny their position because it is true but what bugs me here is that this time it's a friendly nation, a NATO member and a UN long standing member. Furthermore, the Netherlands are no thread to the US whatsoever. They are even pro-US.
This act is solely to prevent any nations to file 'libellous' law suits.

I doubt that it's anything to do with the Netherlands. It's purely the principle that their citizens may be exposed to politically motivated litigation in an international court.

Anyway, like I said, I agree with you.

[Wally Pipp]

Yeah ... it still mystifies me how someone can be that creatively dumb and be in such a power seat

[Flustor]

Could be worse, at one point the President had lost his mind (poor Reagan). Wasn't a dog up for being senator in texas a month or so ago? I suppose he couldn't have been worse than Bush

[Wally Pipp]

Well, as long as there are voices of reason there's not really something to fear.
It's when those voices of reason start to believe in the stupidity that lingers around the White House you have to worry.

I mean, this surely could've been handled much better right ?

[Flustor]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Well, as long as there are voices of reason there's not really something to fear.
It's when those voices of reason start to believe in the stupidity that lingers around the White House you have to worry.

I mean, this surely could've been handled much better right ?

I guess by 'this' you mean the whole Afgan/Terrorist thing?

I reckon the only way to go really is to have a world army/police force which is totally impartial and democratically elected/accountable.. which could investigate international crimes and hold individuals accountable. Rather than individual countrys charging in to "git those terrorisimitist indivimiduals."

[Wally Pipp]

With this I actually meant the ICC business
But yes, it seems that his entire political carreer is somewhat 'tainted' by his personal interlecktshualissem.

[Flustor]

How can something like this happen? How can people support such a man so far as to make him the most powerful man in the world?

[Wally Pipp]

You shouldn't be asking me dear.
Don't you guys have Mr. Blair, the Red Wizard with the Flair ?

[Flustor]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
You shouldn't be asking me dear.
Don't you guys have Mr. Blair, the Red Wizard with the Flaires ?

He's more a cordroy jeans man, and he's got no backbone

[InvisibleDuncan]

Tony's great. He's a man of great personal courage and integrity, and is dashed handsome to boot.

[Wally Pipp]

He's got a front bone if his kids are anything to go by

[MasterBlaster]

[InvisibleDuncan]

Originally posted by Wally Pipp
He's got a front bone if his kids are anything to go by

He clearly doesn't use it wisely, though. I mean, Cherie?

Ugh.

[Wally Pipp]

Well, it was in the morning paper but unless you understand dutch you're going to have to verify for yourself.

If you really can't be bothered to google for it : http://www.usaforicc.org/facts_news.html

[MasterBlaster]

[Wally Pipp]

You know what I honestly think ?
I think that someone somewhere in a cave in the Tora Bora region is smiling to himself knowing that he got more out of the deal than he ever bargained for.

That's what I think about the whole period after 9/11.

[MasterBlaster]

[Wally Pipp]

I hope that there will be a moment in time when we look back on all this and slap our foreheads saying 'what the hell were we thinking ?'. I hope that moment comes real soon now.
For every stupid decision, every idiotic speech, every moronic list that is made public from now on will be judged, scaled and commented. And it will play right in the hands of you know who.

/sighs ...

[simonm]

Wally

I mean, this surely could've been handled much better right ?

Well, domestically, it may come accross like he is trying to protect the rights of the American people.