How many of you have thought about the benefits of science, religion, capitalism, & socialism? Perhaps this should be two threads: Science & religion, capitalism & socialism.

My vote goes for science and capitalism as the primary benefactors, with religion not doing much for us, and socialism having a negative effect.

Consider war and crime.

None of them have done much to prevent war, crime, genocide, et cetera. While scientists are generally anti-war and anti-crime, science itself seems to me to be neutral on these issues. The other three (especially religion) talk against war and crime, but have not been very effective. The example of the USSR could be used as argument for socialism being in favor of government sponsored criminal activity, but some would say they were communists, not socialists.

On the issue of war and crime, none of the above seems to be better than the others, although maybe the pseudo sciences like psychology and sociology might become real science and have an effect in the future.

How about slavery and human suffering?

For the first 5000 or so years of civilization, most humans were slaves or serfs facing back breaking work for little more than a subsistence level life. They died young and suffered from various diseases. For most of that time, religion did not even go on record as being opposed to slavery or other inhuman working conditions. To the best of my knowledge, the Quakers were the first to officially oppose it about 200-300 years ago, and I do not remember any reference to another religion officially opposing it prior to the twentieth century. I think the old testament directed the freeing of Jewish slaves after seven years, but did not oppose slavery. Perhaps some theology buff can enlighten us on which, if any, religion officially opposed slavery, and when they first took such a position. Without considering official religious opinion, does anybody remember an individual opposing slavery on religious grounds prior to the twentieth century?

What about science (and its offspring, technology) and capitalism? They never took a position on slavery or human suffering, but they seemed to have done a lot to solve the problems.

If you had a serious infection, would you want antibiotics or prayer? If gangrene set in and you had to have a leg amputated, would you thank the scientist who developed anesthesia or the religious type who prays for your recovery?

Medical science has certainly improved the life of the average person far more than any of the others. I think this is slam dunk for science. Who gets your vote on this one: The hard hearted unemotional, uncaring scientists who had a positive effect or religion which told us to that suffering was part of god’s plan and that we might be happy after we die?

Why do you think slavery no longer exists in the more advanced nations? I believe it is due to capitalism. Not that the robber barons were nice guys. The change from feudalism to capitalism was an evolutionary process. It is just that you cannot run a complex modern industrial economy with slave labor. That was the downfall of the USSR. You can stand over a man with a whip and make him plant corn or dig a ditch. The man with the whip can tell when the slave is working, and the whip is an effective incentive. The man with the whip is not smart enough to know when to use it in dealing with most of the more complex tasks required for an industrial economy. Furthermore, a whip does not do a good job of motivating a man doing work more complicated than simple agricultural tasks. I once worked in a place that had an apropos joke: “The floggings will continue until morale improves.” Aside from being evil, a whip is not effective.

My liberal socialist-oriented teachers never had a kind word to say about industrialists, and generally portrayed them as evil. I look around and see automobiles, TV’s, computers, and all sorts of other wonderful consumer goods. Who is responsible for all the goodies I enjoy? I vote for Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Ford, Rothschild, et cetera. Industrialists, robber barons, and bankers. I do not think that religious leaders or the likes of Karl Marx had anything to do with the good life I live.

Anybody want to claim that religion and socialism have done more for us than science and capitalism?