Tiles, educational systems and the meaning of life

**MidgetsBro** · Oct 26th, 2001, 10:29 PM

I have decided to learn how to create a tile based game like Zelda for my Senior Project. I have to make it good, or I won't pass English, therefore I won't pass my Senior year of high school. I want to start with basics of BitBlt, and move on from there. Is anyone willing to help me learn how to do this? I want to do the following things:

BitBlt a background map using a map file like the one below(like water and trees, etc)
Create a masked player icon
Move the player around on the screen, keeping him in the middle and letting the screen scroll
Keep the person out of water and trees, and allow them to walk on grass and roads
And maybe add more. This is just the beginning, and I have until April 2002.

Code:

//Map File
/*
0=grass
1=water
2=road
3=house
4=tree etc...
*/

Level=1
4444400001104444
4444000011100434
2222000011000020
0002222222222220
0000000011000000
4400440011100444
4000044001104444
4400444001104444
4444440011104444
4444000011004044
//etc.

Thanks for any help
-Joey

**Oafo** · Oct 27th, 2001, 05:37 PM

Can you convery VB code to C++ code? If you can, then I can write you a simple function that does what you want it to.

**Jotaf98** · Oct 27th, 2001, 07:37 PM

Try Fox's scrolling tutorial - http://orion.spaceports.com/~mccloud/

If you wanna learn the basics of BitBlt, try the Lander Game tutorial at VB-World (the links above)

**Fox** · Oct 27th, 2001, 11:42 PM

*hehe*

Didnt know this address still works.. the new one's located at http://fox.acky.net/

Also try the BitBlt/Game programming tutorial btw..

**Nirces** · Oct 29th, 2001, 07:16 PM

I'm working on a DirectDraw Tile based engine for my Senior project, its an activeX control that should work both in VB and VC++, it hopefully will allow people to easily create games in VB, it will automatically draw tiles, add sprites, move them, detect collisions, with added extras like returning the object clicked on in the click event etc.

I hope people will use it.

**Jotaf98** · Oct 29th, 2001, 07:24 PM

Sure, just post in the forum so people will know about it

**MidgetsBro** · Oct 29th, 2001, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Nirces
I'm working on a DirectDraw Tile based engine for my Senior project, its an activeX control that should work both in VB and VC++, it hopefully will allow people to easily create games in VB, it will automatically draw tiles, add sprites, move them, detect collisions, with added extras like returning the object clicked on in the click event etc.

I hope people will use it.

U gotta do a senior project in Ireland too? I thought it was just our local schools! Wow, I guess u learn somthing new everyday.

**Nirces** · Oct 30th, 2001, 01:51 PM

i'm not in ireland anymore, was doing an industrial placement thier, i need to update, the control forms part of my final year project for my Bsc (hons) degree, the other is a report on 2D game engine methods and techniques.

when i have a testable copy i will post on here

**Jotaf98** · Oct 31st, 2001, 05:12 PM

Hey I'm developing a new technique that will make tile engines a few thousand times faster than the ones that used my other technique, which made them 200 times faster than the ones you read in most articles on tile engines

So if I finish it before you're done with your project, I'm sure you'd get a better grade

**MidgetsBro** · Oct 31st, 2001, 05:21 PM

The project doesn't have to be perfect. It's for an English class where the teacher doesn't know a damn thing about computer games.

I just have to put in at least 15 hours of programming for it. I was thinking that i could spend a few hours drawing the graphics for it, and the rest on the programming.

**Jotaf98** · Oct 31st, 2001, 05:33 PM

Oh, in that case you won't need it - unless the game runs too slow

**rjlohan** · Nov 2nd, 2001, 12:27 AM

Just for my own curiosity, could you explain to me why you are doing a programming assignment to pass an English subject? Is this High School, 'College', Uni, or what?

I just can't fathom how writing vb code qualifies you to pass an English subject. Over here, we have computer courses for our final year of high school, and English is assumed in Uni, so that wouldn't even arise as a subject, let alone one which required programming knowledge.

**The Hobo** · Nov 2nd, 2001, 11:12 AM

In my school, our senior projects are given by our English teachers with really no set ciriculum. We are just givin the instructions to create something that displays our gained knowledge in one or more areas throughout our high school careers. I am also doing a program for mine, but one that involves the school itself.

I don't know if its the same for him. Also, we don't only pass English with the project, but all our classes. And without some kind of project, we won't graduate.

Maybe that'll clear things up a little?

**The Hobo** · Nov 2nd, 2001, 11:17 AM

Hey MidgetsBro.

There's an awesome example of a Zelda game on Planet Source Code. I've learned alot from it, maybe you can too. It's description reads:

This game is based on my favourite game: Zelda64. Its build with tiles and doesnt uses DirectX or Bitblt, it only uses PaintPicture. Create cool worlds with this game engine and it also has background music for each map.

It can be found here: Quest Zelda Game

Hope this helps!

**Jotaf98** · Nov 2nd, 2001, 01:34 PM

Yeah, it's a bit basic but since it doesn't use BitBlt or DX it's great if you're new to this stuff

**Motoxpro** · Nov 2nd, 2001, 08:26 PM

ya that game i a great thing to learn off of

**MidgetsBro** · Nov 3rd, 2001, 01:45 AM

For our senior project, we are supposed to pick a topic, then write an 8 to 10 page paper on it, then do a physical project that relates to the paper topic. I chose "How PC Games have Evolved from Past to Present, and in to the future," so logically, since I know how to program, I wanted to make a computer game. It ties in with the topic really well, and if I do it, I will pass English. I still have to pass my other classes as well, but those are easy... Teacher Aide, Word Processing

, Child Development (boring

), and Economics. The only class I have to worry about is English. Hope that explains a little bit about my project.

-Joey

**Motoxpro** · Nov 3rd, 2001, 02:11 AM

wow lots of work

**Jotaf98** · Nov 3rd, 2001, 10:50 AM

Yeah, I thought that you only needed a big project in college

**rjlohan** · Nov 4th, 2001, 05:45 PM

That's not alot of work!
You're kidding yourselves. Our HSC (High SChool Certificate) requires ****loads more owkr than that. MY final exam qwould require I do well over 10 pages writing, in 3 hours.
And what the hell kind of subject is Word-Processing?!?

**Jotaf98** · Nov 4th, 2001, 05:53 PM

I never had to make a project like that so I dunno

But for my final programming test they asked me for a diagram or pseudo-code of a QBasic program that would calculate all the perfect squares (1, 4, 16, 25...) between 0 and 100, and I gave them a complete program

(That's why they gave me 20/20

)

**MidgetsBro** · Nov 4th, 2001, 06:47 PM

Word Processing is a really stupid class. All we are supposed to do is type fake reports for fake companies. We just learn how to use Microsoft Word pretty much, but I already know what we are learning... my teacher just lets me surf the web the whole period.

How the hell are you supposed to write 10 pages in 3 hours? That is not humanly possible. Unless you just write jibberish for 10 pages.

PS Us Americans, as everyone knows, are very lazy, so 10 pages of writing is a hell of a lot of work for us.

**Jotaf98** · Nov 4th, 2001, 06:52 PM

Lol, we have only one class where we learn everything related to that, not one for each program

**rjlohan** · Nov 4th, 2001, 07:58 PM

10 pages is 3 hours is a mission. The let-off is that that comprises 3 or 4 separate essays. But 10 pages for a major assignment is piddly. I was doing that much regularly on high school assignments. American education is a joke, if you don't mind me saying so.

**Sastraxi** · Nov 4th, 2001, 10:18 PM

=)

It's true, in Canada even in Middle School (or as you may know it, "junior high") they were having us do at least 5-10 pages for each assignment, high school a bit more than that too!

**MidgetsBro** · Nov 5th, 2001, 12:05 AM

Damn your schools are stupid. If I was in middle school, and they asked me to write more than like 2 pages, I would just tell the teacher to ***** off and do what I felt like. That is a bit much to be doing in middle school. I could see maybe 2-4 pages max, but not 5-10. I'm not a genius or anything. Since my freshman year in high school, I have had to do a report like 3-5 pages long, but I chose not to, 3 years in a row... I still passed English those years. But it is absolutely required for seniors, 50% of the grade. If you do everything in the English class perfect, and choose not to do the senior project, you fail with a 50%. A passing grade is 60% and higher.

**drewski** · Nov 5th, 2001, 01:42 AM

i did something like you did midgetsbro except it was in 8th grade. it was a breeze for me. it was english and like you my teacher didn't know jack about games. i had a little knowledge about bitblt and i just figured it out from there. man it sure was a piece of crap but my teacher didn't know. its at my website if you want to take a look but i would recommend if you want to learn anything do not look at my code. its terrible. the game isn't even complete.

yeah i think that's about right rjlohan. american education does leave something to be desired. the school i got to especially

we have the middle school and highschool on the same campus. we have 600 students total when you put them together i think. last year our graduating class was about 40.

**rjlohan** · Nov 5th, 2001, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by MidgetsBro
Damn your schools are stupid. If I was in middle school, and they asked me to write more than like 2 pages, I would just tell the teacher to ***** off and do what I felt like. That is a bit much to be doing in middle school. I could see maybe 2-4 pages max, but not 5-10. I'm not a genius or anything. Since my freshman year in high school, I have had to do a report like 3-5 pages long, but I chose not to, 3 years in a row... I still passed English those years. But it is absolutely required for seniors, 50% of the grade. If you do everything in the English class perfect, and choose not to do the senior project, you fail with a 50%. A passing grade is 60% and higher.

Congratulations. You've proved my point. American Uni is the equivalent of Aussie high school, and so on down the ladder. No wonder you get tagged as the stupidest country on earth.

**Jotaf98** · Nov 5th, 2001, 10:21 AM

Lol, my teachers NEVER asked me for stuff like that, when they ask for a report what counts is what you write and not how much you write (duh!)

Drewski: Last year I was in a school which had years from 5th to 9th, and there were over 1500 students in total

(and guess what - I knew them ALL, or at least 90% of the gals

)
Do you consider 600 students too much?

Anyway it was great, because I met new people every day

I spent most of the intervals saying hi to people who I couldn't even remember their name

**MidgetsBro** · Nov 5th, 2001, 12:16 PM

Orignally posted by jotaf98
Drewski: Last year I was in a school which had years from 5th to 9th, and there were over 1500 students in total (and guess what - I knew them ALL, or at least 90% of the gals )
Do you consider 600 students too much?

You think 1500 is a lot? At my school, there are 2200+ students, and it is only grades 9-12. 550 of them will graduate this year, and another 550 will come in next year. That is one reason why American education sux. We have too many damn people.

**Jotaf98** · Nov 5th, 2001, 01:22 PM

I consider 1500 a good number of students for a school. It's enough for you to meet new people every day, but not so much that the school itself doesn't work well

Oh you think that the American system s*cks? Let me tell you about OUR system: you can make it until the 10th grade without giving a sh*t about school - instead of making you repeat an year, they give you more classes that are supposed to help you! So, most of these students that never studied in their lives can't make it to college because they don't know the basic things when they reach the 10th-12th years.

Another thing... we have stuff like, if you wanna be a medic, your final grade MUST be 18.5 or higher - and that's not an easy task. Then they say that "we lack medics here in Portugal" so they hire foreign medics (mostly spanish) that never needed their final grade to be this high, so they're obviously worse than ours, they're paied higher, and they don't even understand our language well.
And you need really high grades for most other professions too

So don't tell me that your system s*cks because ours is 1000 times worse

**MidgetsBro** · Nov 5th, 2001, 05:20 PM

ok

I guess your school system wins the prize for the least effective

**Jotaf98** · Nov 5th, 2001, 06:00 PM

Yeah well I exaggerated a bit

but we have some cases like that

(Saw it in the news

)

**MoMad** · Nov 6th, 2001, 05:45 PM

LOL.

That is just funny

Every1 has their misfortunate sides

But lemme ask u jotaf?

Do you really have to have high (near perfect) grades to do pretty much anything? To graduate HS? To get a worthy job?

I just realized that out of the 20 Richest ppl in the world, only about 10-15% have actually completed a uni

and guess what? about 80+% of them are in the USA. Look at Bill Gates, he was a high school drop out, and look where that got him...

Its really not about how much you can do or how much you can get on your grades, the true meaning of success depends on who you know and how well you know the system

I hate tests, quizes, and anything of that sort, because its basically some sort of "memory test" scheme, and I hate it because I cant remember things well... or maybe ill know it and as soon as I take the test ill forget it, then when the test is over ill remember it again, but who the hell cares, the test is over

Nothing is fair, but U gotta avoid whining... who knows maybe a few years down the road and you are doing fantastic, but keep trying

lol

I dont even know *** im talking about anymore, lol.

Cya.

**MoMad** · Nov 6th, 2001, 05:56 PM

BTW: How did this change from Tile Engine to Educational System? LOL!!!!!!

For BitBlt Game, you might try fox;s website... Its really not that hard...

The map scheme is like this:

Code:

'...
'first load the height and width from map file and level and etc...
for h = 0 to height
  LineInput #1, LevelStr
  if width < 1 then
      width = len(levelstr) ' load the width for the first time :)
  end if
  for w = 0 to width
      select case lcase(mid(LevelStr, w, 1))
         case "w":
            MapArray.add (WATER)
         case "g":
           MappArray.Add (GRASS)
         case "t":
           MapArray.Add(TREE)
       end select
  next w
next h

That should help ya... MapArray is a collection or array of objects to blt... udt datatypes

TREE, GRASS, WATTER are const object of those types... That way, you dont need to have w*h number of objects just 3-4 and copies of them on the screen via BitBlt...

Easy?

I think ill have to try this out because im not sure if vb allows this sort of thing, I just translated from a C++ project I had one time

**rjlohan** · Nov 6th, 2001, 05:57 PM

A truly intelligent person does not require standard schooling to succeed. All that is required is the ability to learn. I proved this when I got 95% in the final high school assessment here. That is pretty good, if I do say so myself. I spent much of my school days at the beach, or the pub.

However, 99% of the population are not truly intelligent. Thus, a decent education system is necessary. And even the truly intelligent can learn something from school.

I'm sure I picked up something...

And whether you like it or not, most people in the world, particularly employers frown on high school drop outs. You can't use Bill Gates as an example. He was in the right industry at the right time, and made a couple of good decisions. Things have changed. Luck breaks like that are much harder to come by these days.

A good base of knowledge is a worthy thing to have. A good school would provide that.

**MoMad** · Nov 6th, 2001, 06:12 PM

I totally agree with you, but you forgot to mention that The Motivation and the courage for them to actually make use of themselves...

OK, I admit, I wasnt the best at highschool and I am not at my 100% at college... But its really not about how good you can be or how good you are... It is about your personal motivation.

I like programming and you can see that from my programming classes I get 100+% on them... Sometimes I do so good, the instructor offers to give me extra credit for the next quarter's class

But when it comes to multiple choice/ writing tests in even programming classes, I sack them all... I get the worste grades ever,,,

What is this, English??? If a programming class goes on and on about writing all this "documentation","algrythm" blah blag vlah asd as f sdf dsfg dsf g sdg,sdjkf 3 72732774 &^^%% $ %7676v 5 4 3 35 %$$%#$

In real life, its not the programmer's duty to even write documentation for his/her programe. But Im not saying that I shouldnt do it... Infact, I LIKE documenting my code... BUT, what I dont like is having to explain what a concept that is very simple is....

Like they asked me to explain what the relationship between a server and a client is???????????????

What?? If I didnt know this how the hell could I write code on this topic????? And then furthermore, when I said that the relationship is that the server just sits there and waits for the client to send a message, then reply to the message, they said nope.

They wanted me to draw a friggin diagram illustrating this and tell them "in details" that the server waits there for the client and when a client sends in a message, it replies to the message and performs some actions... and blah blah they kept goin on and on... while i rolled my eyes and fixated them on the coke machine

Who the hell is they, you wonder. I went to Microsoft for an interview only to find that they will ask you the most annoying and stupid and pathetic questions they couild think up of... but they do give free pop

Anyways, my point.....
"They" DONOT CARE how much you know, but on HOW WELL YOU COULD USE THAT KNOWLEDGE TO BENEFIT "THEM"

Did i make my point clear?

Take care, Im out,
-MoMad

**rjlohan** · Nov 6th, 2001, 06:28 PM

Yes, and having ****ty marks in school would put you right BEHIND someone with the same knowledge as you.
Generally anyway, there are exceptions.

But you have shown that your major knowledge base is programming. With just that, you're not gonna be a Bill Gates. Not without some lucky break.
In school you could have learned to write documentation very quickly, and may I point out that in real life, many programmers will document their own code. The ones who don't, are quite often the ones who can't.

And why limit yourself to a very rigid skill set? You should give yourself some room to move. What happens tomorrow if there is no electricity in the world? Besides complete chaos, but then what do you do? All you can do is program.
(I'm not trying to be insulting, I've no doubt you're a better programmer than I, but I want to express the point that a good education system is a necessity - you would have developed other skills to get by in life than the programming ones you have honed).

I just can't understand how the most powerful country in the world can be so stupid. And, no not all Americans are stupid, but with school systems as have been described here, what sort of people does the country expect to produce?

**MoMad** · Nov 6th, 2001, 06:53 PM

LOL.

Once again, ur right. And I can do like 20 more things that have absolutely no relation to computer... But a good educational system is needed and needs to be enforced.

In my opinion, The way to find out how good a country's education is, is by seeing how hard students TRY. In Japan, or some European Countries, students study 18+ good hours for 6days, and sometimes 7days... In america, students dont need all that, they are not expected of all that... One of the things that encourage education is Expectation, and america seriously needs to raise their expections.

Im not saying that all americans are a whole bunch of whining babies, welll.... im saying that a whole load of em are.

Sorry guys... but u gotta admit this one. lol.

You see, I learn new things each and everyday, ON MY OWN TIME... That is something many ppl dont have the brains to think of... I mean, there is no way on earth that schools will be able to teach EVERY SUBJECT there is to teach, right??? So go out there and read some books and find something usefull and keep it somewhere in case u need it

America is where many dumb ppl get a lucky break... where else do u see so much dumbass millionaires?? Unless they inherited all that money, then their parents would probably buy them the best education money can buy.. and again, education trully depends on opportuity and financial stability... which america has but its school systems often times lack.

BTW: my first school was under a tree, somewhere near a river, where writing was done on the dirt

lol, heheh, but at least that would teach better than american system...

Americans dont get parental involvement, how about expectation??? ok, when a person doesnt have the basic things tackled down, how the hell are they gonna get beyond basics.

OK, ill stop right here... im really rumbling on and on about absolutely nothing it feels likle... and aaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww, this keyboard sux.,... ill write when i get home. Cya

**rjlohan** · Nov 6th, 2001, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by MoMad

In my opinion, The way to find out how good a country's education is, is by seeing how hard students TRY. In Japan, or some European Countries, students study 18+ good hours for 6days, and sometimes 7days... In america, students dont need all that, they are not expected of all that... One of the things that encourage education is Expectation, and america seriously needs to raise their expections.

I disagree on that. Japanese students act the same in Australia. It is because of their culture. Excellence is expected of them. No doubt Japanese students in America (if any lower themselves that far) would study just as hard (well probably not, since they wouldn't need to...

)
I see your point, but I don't think you're right on this one. It is the student who decides how hard they study. Japanese students in Australia generally study harder, and work harder too, than their Aussie counterparts. Generally.
And we have a good education system, although it needs work, (but what doesn't??)
A more accurate judge would be how the students compare in stuff like IQ tests and things like that. Obviously there are major flaws in IQ tests, primarily that they are mostly written by Americans, and thus in English (or some feeble deviation of) and so non-english speakers are disadvantaged. But what I'm trying to say is if you compare the skills/knowledge of students in different areas, you see who is doing the right thing.

Originally posted by MoMad
Im not saying that all americans are a whole bunch of whining babies, welll.... im saying that a whole load of em are.

Hear, hear.

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