Israel?

[xiaoyao]

For an ally to fight its enemy, the United States provides weapons or makes more money from selling them.
If an underworld organization gives bonuses to their thugs or provides all kinds of humanitarian assistance, they will think that you, the boss, are very powerful. You are really protecting us.

[xiaoyao]

? In September, Israel carried out sustained air strikes and mass assassinations in Lebanon, killing Hezbollah leader Nasrallah, and on October 1, Israel launched a so-called "limited ground invasion" of southern Lebanon. According to local media reports, 1 million of the 5.8 million Lebanese population have been displaced, and the tragedy in Gaza over the past year seems to be repeating itself in Lebanon.

[xiaoyao]

Since 2024, whenever a diplomatic, political solution to the Middle East conflict has been in sight, Israel has taken the initiative to intensify the cycle of violence and prevent peace from coming. In April, based on the domestic public opinion rebound and election pressure, the Biden administration put pressure on Israel to end the conflict as soon as possible, and Israel immediately attacked the Iranian Embassy in Damascus, the capital of Syria, provoking Iran to respond with missiles; In July, 14 Palestinian factions signed the Beijing Declaration on Ending Division and Strengthening Palestinian National Unity in Beijing, and the international momentum for a peaceful settlement of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict was strengthened. Then Israel assassinated Fuad Shukur, a senior military commander of Hezbollah, and Ismail Haniyeh, a leader of Hamas. Israel's assassination of Haniyeh was particularly provocative because it took place in Tehran, the capital of Iran, just hours after Iran's new president was sworn in.

[xiaoyao]

The reason why Israel wants to induce the United States to exchange fire with Iran is to fundamentally prevent the "denuclearization of Israel" derived from the "denuclearization of Iran". On September 24, Iranian President Masood Pezeshitsyan said at the UN General Assembly that Iran is willing to resume negotiations on the Iranian nuclear agreement. The important external factor for Iran to develop nuclear weapons from the very beginning is to deal with the potential nuclear threat of Israel. According to Western think tanks, Israel currently has about 90 nuclear warheads.

[wes4dbt]

I don't like seeing this, https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/13/polit...ops/index.html

Seems like the US is making it easier for Israel to avoid any consequences for killing civilians in other countries. Instead of condemning them for their actions in Gaza we are making it safer for them to continue.

[TysonLPrice]

I don't like seeing this, https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/13/polit...ops/index.html

Seems like the US is making it easier for Israel to avoid any consequences for killing civilians in other countries. Instead of condemning them for their actions in Gaza we are making it safer for them to continue.

Well the US not only backs Israel but we are backing their god (Or at least half their bible ). That is another level of support that complicates things. That makes it easy to inflict suffering on the "non believers".

[wes4dbt]

The US is certainly sending mixed messages. Send troops and military aid one day and then threaten to restrict aid a couple of days later.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/15/polit...ter/index.html

Makes me think the elections are playing into these moves. But that just a guess.

[TysonLPrice]

The US is certainly sending mixed messages. Send troops and military aid one day and then threaten to restrict aid a couple of days later.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/15/polit...ter/index.html

Makes me think the elections are playing into these moves. But that just a guess.

I'd say they are, the democrats are just trying to keep it from exploding for a few more weeks.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yeah, giving them a 30 day deadline, which falls neatly AFTER the election.

[wes4dbt]

Israel's arrogance just continues to grow. Alone with the ease at which they justify killing civilians. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy43z81nnvlo

I'm surprise that except for Iran, all the other neighboring countries are keeping a very low profile and have avoided involvement in this situation. I don't really know much about the political situation they have with Gaza, Lebanon and Iran. But none of them seem eager to help them.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I would guess that the situation could be considered fraught, strained, or both. Hezbollah is an Iranian proxy that fought in Syria, so Syria can't be too eager to engage, nor would any of the Sunni countries like the UAE or Saudi Arabia. They probably wouldn't mind somebody sticking it to Israel, but they probably want it to be somebody OTHER than Hezbollah.

[TysonLPrice]

Israel banned UNRWA

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/...l-to-ban-unrwa

Genocide comes to mind...

[Shaggy Hiker]

However this turns out, there will be no winners. Not even close.

[wes4dbt]

However this turns out, there will be no winners. Not even close.

They're use to no one winning. After 75 years of no one winning. I can sort of understand Israeli's turning a blind eye to the murder of innocent Palestinians. They have dehumanized them, all they've ever know is battling against them.

But why the rest of the world is letting this mass murder continue or even lend support has no valid justification.

[TysonLPrice]

They're use to no one winning. After 75 years of no one winning. I can sort of understand Israeli's turning a blind eye to the murder of innocent Palestinians. They have dehumanized them, all they've ever know is battling against them.

But why the rest of the world is letting this mass murder continue or even lend support has no valid justification.

Other than condemnation what can anyone else do? The U.N. is useless in this situation. Netanyahu thumbs his nose at the US, what can anyone else do if he won't listen to them? Other than point out the inhumanity of it all.

[wes4dbt]

Other than condemnation what can anyone else do? The U.N. is useless in this situation. Netanyahu thumbs his nose at the US, what can anyone else do if he won't listen to them? Other than point out the inhumanity of it all.

We could certainly stop aiding them. My GUESS is that Israel is also reliant on a large amount of imported goods. These things could be withheld. This may put a hardship on the population as a whole but I don't think that's a totally bad thing. Right now they're sitting back under their "iron dome" with very little negative effects from the on going conflicts. It makes it very easy for the majority of Israeli's to justify the mass murder of the Palestinians.

[TysonLPrice]

We could certainly stop aiding them. My GUESS is that Israel is also reliant on a large amount of imported goods. These things could be withheld. This may put a hardship on the population as a whole but I don't think that's a totally bad thing. Right now they're sitting back under their "iron dome" with very little negative effects from the on going conflicts. It makes it very easy for the majority of Israeli's to justify the mass murder of the Palestinians.

I was referring to the "rest of the world".

[wes4dbt]

The US continues to aid Israel. I guess the threats of withholding aid are just for show. But the rest of the world is also turning a blind eye to the killing in Gaza. The Palestinians are just disposable I guess.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...aza-palestine/

[sapator]

I don't think Israel will get any holdback till January. Trump says it will stop the wars so will have to see.
But for now, it's business as usual.

[TysonLPrice]

The US continues to aid Israel. I guess the threats of withholding aid are just for show. But the rest of the world is also turning a blind eye to the killing in Gaza. The Palestinians are just disposable I guess.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...aza-palestine/

In retrospect, from day one.

[sapator]

I've read that Hamas is ready to end the war and sign a piece treaty due to Trump election.
Cannot confirm tho.

[wes4dbt]

I read Pharaoh freed the Jews from slavery because Trump got elected.
Can't confirm that tho. lol

[sapator]

Funny .

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-...eace/104608846

[wes4dbt]

Funny .

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-...eace/104608846

They are asking for Trumps help. They aren't asking for a cease fire "due to Trump election".

A senior Hamas official has declared the group is "ready for a ceasefire" in the war-ravaged Gaza, and urged incoming US president Donald Trump to put "pressure" on Israel to reach a truce.

It follows indications earlier this week that Israel and Hezbollah are close to reaching a deal to end fighting in Lebanon.

Probably has more to due with Israel's relentless attacks and a loss of so many members.

[Shaggy Hiker]

That an an utter lack of interest in a cease fire on the part of Israel. Hamas stands to lose everything, so it is little wonder they want a cease fire. Heck, they may have already lost everything. They had control of Gaza. If Israel were to completely withdraw from Gaza today, it isn't clear whether Hamas would be able to regain control. Lots of competing gangs over there, apparently. Gaza is a bone that a lot of dogs are fighting over, some big and some small.

On the other hand, Qatar has stated that neither side is negotiating in good faith, which is certainly the way it appears, so maybe Hamas asking for anything is just more of the same.

[sapator]

Ye I haven't read it thoroughly, I just sought it out later due to wes been a smarty.
So tomato tomato it was close enough, closer than the Pharaoh illusions.
Have a great weekend and God bless America

[Shaggy Hiker]

We're gonna need it, the whole world of us.

[wes4dbt]

Didn't the ICC already charge Netanyahu with war crimes several months ago??

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly2exvx944o

It doesn't seem to carry much weight. The US quicky rejected it.

I don't know how you can't call what Israel has and is doing to the Palestinians any thing other than war crimes. But the world has no desire to hold Israel accountable.

It baffles me, not that the world will ignore war crimes, but there is usually a significant benefit in doing so. I've said it before, I just don't see what Israel brings to the table.

[sapator]

More than 120 countries are members of the court. The United States, China, India, Russia and Israel are not.

IIC also has a warrant for Putin but to be fair it should also have one for Biden trying to start 3rd world war.
In short IIC is IIC(rap)

[wes4dbt]

When or if the Israeli's ever satisfy their blood lust in Gaza and neighboring countries, what happens? I mean, Gaza cities are just rubble. Palestinians are going to be indirectly dying from these Israeli attacks for years. Meanwhile we pretend it's justified.

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/20...ttacks-on-gaza

I guess after 75+ years of continuous war, the lives of the "others" become insignificant.

[TysonLPrice]

When or if the Israeli's ever satisfy their blood lust in Gaza and neighboring countries, what happens? I mean, Gaza cities are just rubble. Palestinians are going to be indirectly dying from these Israeli attacks for years. Meanwhile we pretend it's justified.

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/20...ttacks-on-gaza

I guess after 75+ years of continuous war, the lives of the "others" become insignificant.

Wait until Trump is in office...What little restraint the US was able to exert will be gone. Trump has already said Netanyahu can do whatever he needs to do.

[FunkyDexter]

Wait until Trump is in office...What little restraint the US was able to exert will be gone.

I actually doubt Trump's going to make this particular situation much worse. Truth be told the USA (and the rest of the West fwiw) have exerted pretty much zero influence anyway. A few countries, notably South Africa, have tried to exert real pressure but mostly we've just sat on our hands.

[Shaggy Hiker]

How DOES one make this situation worse?

[wes4dbt]

I actually doubt Trump's going to make this particular situation much worse. Truth be told the USA (and the rest of the West fwiw) have exerted pretty much zero influence anyway. A few countries, notably South Africa, have tried to exert real pressure but mostly we've just sat on our hands.

The most influence we've had is negative influence. We've given aid and weapons. I guess in court we would be called an accessory to the crimes.

I know I've said it before in this thread but it just baffles me, why do continue to support Israel???

[TysonLPrice]

I actually doubt Trump's going to make this particular situation much worse. Truth be told the USA (and the rest of the West fwiw) have exerted pretty much zero influence anyway. A few countries, notably South Africa, have tried to exert real pressure but mostly we've just sat on our hands.

Really...that is how short memories are:

"On December 6, 2017, President Trump formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and stated that the American embassy would be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem."

That was just the beginning. You have to be kidding. Netanyahu now has "carte blanche". A moron whose priority is that last thing he heard is in charge. How fast idiots forget...And I do not mean you.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I don't think memories are short at all. I, agree with FD that it won't be much worse. Basically, what IS much worse, at this point? Israel is more restrained by their manpower issues than from anything else that I can see.

[wes4dbt]

Basically, what IS much worse, at this point?

According to NPR

60% of buildings, nearly 70% of orchards and 68% of roads have been damaged or destroyed by the conflict

I guess there is more that can be destroyed. I don't think Trump will have much effect either way. Maybe Trump will do something positive for a change and cut off our funding to Israel. But for most of the Palestinians the current conditions are on the verge of being fatal.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/09/g-s1-...the%20conflict.

That article has an interesting interactive map showing the spread of damage.

[FunkyDexter]

why do continue to support Israel???

Honestly, I think it's inertia (And that is incredibly depressing in what it says about human nature). For most of the last century, not supporting Israel would likely have been worse than supporting it so there's an ingrained thinking that Israel needs protection. I don't believe that's been true for a long time but the instinctive response is still there. Couple that with powerful lobbying and I'm afraid there's no real impetus to turn the ship around.

Really...that is how short memories are:

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Trump will be a friend to the Palestinians and would almost certainly make things worse for them if it was possible. My doubt is whether it's possible, at least in practical terms. I've been saying for a long time that this was a potential genocide, I think we're pretty close to being able to drop the potential bit. It's hard to get worse than that.

[TysonLPrice]

I don't think memories are short at all. I, agree with FD that it won't be much worse. Basically, what IS much worse, at this point? Israel is more restrained by their manpower issues than from anything else that I can see.

What can get worse? Trump will OK Netanyahu taking/annexing more land. Maybe starting as "buffer" zones. Then Israel will finish wiping out the entire people. That will make things worse. Then feel emboldened by Trump to become even more aggressive against their neighbors. Then guess what, the orange headed moron sends in the military. That would be worse. I would even say anything that Trump gets involved in will get worse

I suppose once Canada is the 51st state and we own Greenland things will be better though

What I mean by memories being short is the chaos Trump creates everyday. He abandoned the Kurds over a single phone call from Turkey. I'm pretty sure he is going to abandon Ukraine. Every single day will be some kind of lie he says will be magnified. I think people have forgotten. One morning he will tweet some major change in Israeli policy no one saw coming.

[Shaggy Hiker]

What can get worse? Trump will OK Netanyahu taking/annexing more land.

So what? They were already talking about that, and Biden wasn't pushing back even lightly. The difference between staying silent and winking isn't much.

Then Israel will finish wiping out the entire people.

Why bother with "then". Some elements in the Israeli government are openly talking about it, and have been for months. Biden has stayed silent. Trump will also stay silent. If Israel decides to do that, the US won't stop them. That was already established, and it won't change.

even more aggressive against their neighbors.

They can't very well, because they are stretched too thin from a manpower perspective and know it.

Then guess what, the orange headed moron sends in the military.

That's unlikely. Trump very much does NOT want to get involved with anything overseas, and he doesn't want to get involved with anything that takes more than a few minutes. He's been president before, and showed that pretty clearly: One airstrike? Fine. Anything that requires extended focus? Nope.

I think people have forgotten. One morning he will tweet some major change in Israeli policy no one saw coming.

Yeah, if people think he can focus or remain coherent, then they HAVE forgotten, and he hasn't gotten better at that. You seem to think he'll be focused on this. He won't. He just won't care, so long as it requires more effort than a tweet. But that isn't any different from what Biden has accomplished over there. Israel hasn't been constrained in any way and to any extent, except so far as what they have the manpower to do. They're still a tiny country trying to take action in two different directions at once, plus a series of even further flung air campaigns. They couldn't do even that without US assistance...but they HAVE been doing that, which means they have been getting US assistance. Nothing will be significantly worse between having an ineffectual fretter in the white house and a chaotic clown with no attention span in there. Neither one will do anything effective.