OT: Mildly Annoying

[parksie]

Okay people, rant time

This is more forum-related than programming but nobody would read it if I put it in Chit Chat

I've noticed over the past few days that there've been a lot of questions asking things that can easily be found in a reference. People have been very patient, answering questions which have a one-word answer (esp. Vlatko and CornedBee).

This forum is not for us to go off to MSDN and get the name of a constant you need, you can do that yourself. If you have a problem such as creating two windows with a thread each, then that's ok, but asking how to make a window with a different coloured background is one that could easily be answered by looking at the documentation.

Just my 2-penneth, thanks for your time

[plenderj]

Yeah but the syntax of code, and the english used in MSDN can be off-putting for people. Its easier to just ask

[beachbum]

We should track these people down and offer them the choice of death or a wedgie.

[parksie]

Jamie - it's explained surprisingly nicely, I found. For example in my window background one:

hbrBackground
Handle to the class background brush. This member can be a handle to the physical brush to be used for painting the background, or it can be a color value. A color value must be one of the following standard system colors (the value 1 must be added to the chosen color). If a color value is given, you must convert it to one of the following HBRUSH types:
COLOR_ACTIVEBORDER
COLOR_ACTIVECAPTION
COLOR_APPWORKSPACE
COLOR_BACKGROUND
COLOR_BTNFACE
COLOR_BTNSHADOW
COLOR_BTNTEXT
COLOR_CAPTIONTEXT
COLOR_GRAYTEXT
COLOR_HIGHLIGHT
COLOR_HIGHLIGHTTEXT
COLOR_INACTIVEBORDER
COLOR_INACTIVECAPTION
COLOR_MENU
COLOR_MENUTEXT
COLOR_SCROLLBAR
COLOR_WINDOW
COLOR_WINDOWFRAME
COLOR_WINDOWTEXT

There, wasn't that easy?

Stuart - only if I can administer the wedgies Or maybe they can do it themselves - www.joecartoon.com (get the Wedge Master )

[HarryW]

Cake or death?

Oh sorry, we're out of cake.

[parksie]

Goes well with your post count

[plenderj]

Well I just remember that when I was learning VB first, I couldnt make head nor tails of a lot of stuff that was supposed to help.
For example, say you want to learn how to write functions. You look up function and get this :

[Public | Private | Friend] [Static] Function name [(arglist)] [As type]

or if you want to learn how to do File I/O :

Open pathname For mode [Access access] [lock] As [#]filenumber [Len=reclength]

I had a similar problem when looking at things in MSDN about C/C++. Its very difficult to follow until you get used to it.

[hmm]

parksie,

Administering ‘wedgies’ without a permit is against the law in england(5 germany 1 )


hmm

[parksie]

Originally posted by plenderj
Well I just remember that when I was learning VB first, I couldnt make head nor tails of a lot of stuff that was supposed to help.
For example, say you want to learn how to write functions. You look up function and get this :

[Public | Private | Friend] [Static] Function name [(arglist)] [As type]

or if you want to learn how to do File I/O :

Open pathname For mode [Access access] [lock] As [#]filenumber [Len=reclength]

I had a similar problem when looking at things in MSDN about C/C++. Its very difficult to follow until you get used to it.

That's standard syntax and has been used in technical documentation for longer than I've been around

Although I see your point - however people should get used to it, then, shouldn't they?

[parksie]

I do have a permit I wrote it out myself

[plenderj]

Yeah people should get used to it, and people do.
I have no problem reading that stuff now. I know what the difference in the brackets is etc.

But if I'd never read a spec like that before, I'd not have a clue where to start.

[parksie]

Typographic Conventions
The Platform SDK documentation uses the following typographic conventions.

Convention Description
monospace
Indicates source code, structure syntax, examples, user input, and program output.
Bold Indicates a function, structure, macro, interface, method, data type, or other keyword in the programming interface or programming language.
Italic Indicates placeholders, most often function or method parameters; these placeholders represent the information that must be supplied by the implementation or the user. In addition, italics are used to highlight the first use of terms and to emphasize meaning.
UPPERCASE Indicates a flag, return value, or property. In addition, uppercase letters may indicate file names, registers, and terms used at the operating-system command level.
[ ] Indicates optional syntax items. Type only the syntax within the brackets, not the brackets themselves.

[plenderj]

Right, and who in the jaysus is going to spend time trying to learn how to read the learning material

[parksie]

Someone who's serious about wanting to learn?

You only learn if you want to, and that involves a commitment of some sort. I never had the benefit of a forum like this, I just spent hours with MSDN and a copy of "The C Programming Language".

[plenderj]

Well I never had a forum like this either, and I had no book.
I just looked at lots and lots of samples and figured out from that what did what etc.

But if there was a resource like this available, I probably would have used it.

[HarryW]

Well I never had a forum like this, the MSDN, a book, a computer or even fingers to count on. I had to write out code holding the pen between my teeth (no fingers, remember) then work through it step by step, compiling it to instructions and remembering the state of the registers in my head.

You try telling that to kids nowadays. They won't believe you.

[plenderj]

Hah! You had it easy!

We used live in cardboard box in middle of lake.
And every night our dad'd come home, and beat us to sleep with a broken bottle. And first thing in the morning we'd have to drink a whole bottle of sulphuric acid.

You try telling that to kids nowadays.

[abdul]

After I new to basics of windows programming, I always use MSDN refrence for whatever I want to create (EG: Property sheets, tab control, and working with different controls)

I only post the question here if I have problem running the code that I make by using the MSDN refrence

[jim mcnamara]

Actually, Abdul, you seem to try very hard. And make mistakes, just like the rest of us.

What Parksie is moaning about, justifiably, is stuff that truly is direclty accessible in C++ help. There's even sample code for the exact question asked. Cut & paste.

Some of MSDN is so obfuscated, especially parts of the STL documentation, that I had to read a book and work at it for a month. And I've used the gnu C++ STL.

Somebody who hasn't but 6 weeks experience with coding can't begin to get that stuff, hence no one minds answering. Ditto windows internals. Or help with misdirected pointers, goofy syntax, or translating 'elegant' (ie., obfuscated) code.

[abdul]

AND you can always search before posting a question because there is 70% chance that you willl get the answer for your quetion by searching this message board

[Vlatko]

Just out of curiousity abdul, how did you get the 70%. What calculations did you use?

[abdul]

Sorry...I forgot to put "about" before 70%

[Zaei]

HRESULT RevokeFormatEnumerator(
[in] LPBC pbc,
[in] IEnumFORMATETC *pEFetc
);

MS seems to deviate from standard documentation syntax when it comes to the IE Platform SDK. Im pretty sure the quote above would have the compiler s***ting kittens =).

And hey. If you are going to be lazy, and post an easy question, at least tell everyone in the subject line =). Dont come running, because the compiler tells you that you are missing a semi-colon on line 45, or because BitBlt wont Blt correctly(had that problem earlier tonight). And of course, its quite satisfying to kick yourself in the rear after working for hours on some error that you KNEW wasnt there before you added something, then realizing that you had done #define INT 0x0021 (did that one the other day). Do a little work before you ask the questions. If you want some info on a concept, please ask! If you cant figure out why the compiler wont compile, work on it for a week or so, then ask =).

Heh. I dont rant enough.

Z.

[parksie]

Well, [in] is valid IDL syntax, I think

[parksie]

Hey! Who set this thread sticky?

Thanks, whoever it was Hopefully people might see it...

[plenderj]

Well it just has to be said that, yes, people dont seem to try to find answers to their questions hard enough, but also, that the documentation provided is very off-putting to someone just starting out in programming.

And even more so if you've never read technical documents before. A good example of this would be the first time you read an RFC. It takes a while before you realise that you shouldnt really try to read through it, but rather skim through it to find just what you're looking for.